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Post by layton on Feb 25, 2010 19:09:17 GMT -5
I am a big Undertaker fan, but I am a bigger wrestling fan. I understand why people love the streak, and I understand that a lot of people think it is "the only sacred thing left in wrestling." I get that, because it really is a huge deal. Wrestlemania is the best thing that's ever happened to WWE. It's a huge PPV, and the fact that anyone has gone this long without being defeated at the biggest event in company and probably wrestling history is incredible, and a testament to his talent. HOWEVER: I have a problem with the streak. To me, the streak is saying " Undertaker is bigger than Wrestlemania; he cannot be defeated." That bothers me, because no one guy is bigger than Wrestlemania itself. HBK puts on amazing matches at Wrestlemania year after year, but he's lost many times. He's not bigger than the event, either--no one is, and no one should be. So I am going to counter your statement and say this: If Shawn Michaels doesn't win and break the streak at WM, I will retire from WFigs that evening. But if he wins, I will not leave--even though I planned on leaving very soon. I disagree. It's not saying he's bigger than WrestleMania. It's saying he defines WrestleMania. He's the best at WrestleMania. If he can't be beaten at WrestleMania, even by the likes of Mr. WrestleMania himself, then it solidifies that he is the best. I am not sure how that is any different. One superstar shouldn't "define" Wrestlemania based on their winning streak. If you're talking about "defining" a show, it should be about performance--something that isn't predetermined. Before Taker even goes out to perform he's going to win his Wrestlemania match. I am not saying the stream means nothing, because I think it's a great accomplishment. I don't think it is tainted or anything like that because it is predetermined. I just think that it shouldn't "define" what Wrestlemania is. HBK is called Mr. Wrestlemania because he goes out there and outperforms everyone a high percentage of the time. That is more definitive to me. I am a big fan of Taker's--I just think Wrestlemania shouldn't be defined by a streak that is less impressive than the number of victories within it. Some of those matches were great, but most of them were not.
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 25, 2010 19:13:05 GMT -5
I disagree. It's not saying he's bigger than WrestleMania. It's saying he defines WrestleMania. He's the best at WrestleMania. If he can't be beaten at WrestleMania, even by the likes of Mr. WrestleMania himself, then it solidifies that he is the best. I am not sure how that is any different. One superstar shouldn't "define" Wrestlemania based on their winning streak. If you're talking about "defining" a show, it should be about performance--something that isn't predetermined. Before Taker even goes out to perform he's going to win his Wrestlemania match. I am not saying the stream means nothing, because I think it's a great accomplishment. I don't think it is tainted or anything like that because it is predetermined. I just think that it shouldn't "define" what Wrestlemania is. HBK is called Mr. Wrestlemania because he goes out there and outperforms everyone a high percentage of the time. That is more definitive to me. I am a big fan of Taker's--I just think Wrestlemania shouldn't be defined by a streak that is less impressive than the number of victories within it. Some of those matches were great, but most of them were not. You made some good points. I agree with some of it but It all depends on how you look at it. I just don't believe it should be broken, because we will look back on Taker and know he's the only man to ever not be defeated at WrestleMania. I think that they should keep it intact. Someone should be the one that never lost at WrestleMania. I think it adds to the legacy of the Undertaker so much more if he remains undefeated and retires undefeated.
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hbkrules
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jun 18, 2002 11:49:32 GMT -5
Posts: 2,115
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Post by hbkrules on Feb 25, 2010 22:17:20 GMT -5
I disagree. It's not saying he's bigger than WrestleMania. It's saying he defines WrestleMania. He's the best at WrestleMania. If he can't be beaten at WrestleMania, even by the likes of Mr. WrestleMania himself, then it solidifies that he is the best. I am not sure how that is any different. One superstar shouldn't "define" Wrestlemania based on their winning streak. If you're talking about "defining" a show, it should be about performance--something that isn't predetermined. Before Taker even goes out to perform he's going to win his Wrestlemania match. I am not saying the stream means nothing, because I think it's a great accomplishment. I don't think it is tainted or anything like that because it is predetermined. I just think that it shouldn't "define" what Wrestlemania is. HBK is called Mr. Wrestlemania because he goes out there and outperforms everyone a high percentage of the time. That is more definitive to me. I am a big fan of Taker's--I just think Wrestlemania shouldn't be defined by a streak that is less impressive than the number of victories within it. Some of those matches were great, but most of them were not. I completely agree with this. It's more about putting on great matches than winning and losing. For instance I find HBK's match with Razor although he lost, to be more impressive than an Undertaker victory at WM against Atrain. I made a thread talking about great matches at WM being more important than wins and losses and got flamed pretty hard though lol.
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 25, 2010 22:25:52 GMT -5
I am not sure how that is any different. One superstar shouldn't "define" Wrestlemania based on their winning streak. If you're talking about "defining" a show, it should be about performance--something that isn't predetermined. Before Taker even goes out to perform he's going to win his Wrestlemania match. I am not saying the stream means nothing, because I think it's a great accomplishment. I don't think it is tainted or anything like that because it is predetermined. I just think that it shouldn't "define" what Wrestlemania is. HBK is called Mr. Wrestlemania because he goes out there and outperforms everyone a high percentage of the time. That is more definitive to me. I am a big fan of Taker's--I just think Wrestlemania shouldn't be defined by a streak that is less impressive than the number of victories within it. Some of those matches were great, but most of them were not. I completely agree with this. It's more about putting on great matches than winning and losing. For instance I find HBK's match with Razor although he lost, to be more impressive than an Undertaker victory at WM against Atrain. I made a thread talking about great matches at WM being more important than wins and losses and got flamed pretty hard though lol. i agree with that. Razor and HBK was a better match than a heck of a lot of Undertaker's WrestleMania Matches. I must admit, I'm just an Undertaker fan, and i dont want to see the streak end. But Shawn Michaels is my 2nd favorite of all-time. I don't want to see him retire either.
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Post by yankeesforever on Feb 25, 2010 23:21:52 GMT -5
I completely agree with this. It's more about putting on great matches than winning and losing. For instance I find HBK's match with Razor although he lost, to be more impressive than an Undertaker victory at WM against Atrain. I made a thread talking about great matches at WM being more important than wins and losses and got flamed pretty hard though lol. i agree with that. Razor and HBK was a better match than a heck of a lot of Undertaker's WrestleMania Matches. I must admit, I'm just an Undertaker fan, and i dont want to see the streak end. But Shawn Michaels is my 2nd favorite of all-time. I don't want to see him retire either. Come on now... Undertaker vs Atrain ? What you expect ? Undertaker can't wrestle a great star every year .. He's been in 17 WrestleMania's . Ok , 2 wrestlers he fough were weak , so what? And im sorry , Razor too ? Please tell me your joking . Hbk , fine... But Razor..... he's been one great WM match .
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The Hitman
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 24, 2006 17:12:19 GMT -5
Posts: 2,377
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Post by The Hitman on Feb 26, 2010 0:42:11 GMT -5
Cant wait, Streak better win.
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 26, 2010 10:22:10 GMT -5
i agree with that. Razor and HBK was a better match than a heck of a lot of Undertaker's WrestleMania Matches. I must admit, I'm just an Undertaker fan, and i dont want to see the streak end. But Shawn Michaels is my 2nd favorite of all-time. I don't want to see him retire either. Come on now... Undertaker vs Atrain ? What you expect ? Undertaker can't wrestle a great star every year .. He's been in 17 WrestleMania's . Ok , 2 wrestlers he fough were weak , so what? And im sorry , Razor too ? Please tell me your joking . Hbk , fine... But Razor..... he's been one great WM match . I wasn't saying anything about Razor. I was talking about his match with HBK. Taker's matches with Bundy, A-Train and Show, Mark Henry, and Diesel were not that good at all. And when you compare them to HBK's matches with Bret, Angle, Flair, HHH and Benoit, Jericho, Austin, and Razor, i'd say HBK was a far better performer.
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Post by MondayRaw on Feb 26, 2010 11:35:48 GMT -5
I ordered the travel package, and had it shipped to my parents house....They called me yesterday to tell me it arrived .. wooo
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Post by King Shocker the Monumentous on Feb 26, 2010 14:40:07 GMT -5
Taker's matches with Bundy, A-Train and Show, Mark Henry, and Diesel were not that good at all. How can you forget Gonzalez? Anyway, poll added. And I updated the card with tonight's MITB qualifiers.
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Jacob
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Joined on: May 15, 2006 14:11:26 GMT -5
Posts: 16,577
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Post by Jacob on Feb 26, 2010 15:16:05 GMT -5
Is anybody else actually really excited for WrestleMania this year? I can't wait! I'ver booked the following day off work so I can sleep in, seeing as it airs at midnight here in the UK. Really can't wait. Three main events that I actually want to watch! It's going to be incredible.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 17, 2024 20:23:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 16:20:45 GMT -5
I ordered the travel package, and had it shipped to my parents house....They called me yesterday to tell me it arrived .. wooo Take me with you!!! Im not used to this whole not going to WrestleMania thing, especially after seeing how amazing this WrestleMania could be
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Post by yankeesforever on Feb 26, 2010 16:21:28 GMT -5
Come on now... Undertaker vs Atrain ? What you expect ? Undertaker can't wrestle a great star every year .. He's been in 17 WrestleMania's . Ok , 2 wrestlers he fough were weak , so what? And im sorry , Razor too ? Please tell me your joking . Hbk , fine... But Razor..... he's been one great WM match . I wasn't saying anything about Razor. I was talking about his match with HBK. Taker's matches with Bundy, A-Train and Show, Mark Henry, and Diesel were not that good at all. And when you compare them to HBK's matches with Bret, Angle, Flair, HHH and Benoit, Jericho, Austin, and Razor, i'd say HBK was a far better performer. You are baseing them on his oppnents .Its not takers fault that he had to face those guys . Look the HBK vs Diesel at WM11 , it wasn't all that either. But when taker faces the "athletic " wrestlers he can so alot more things with them. Btw , when he fought Mark Henry he flew off the ring ; don't you forget.
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Post by Phantom on Feb 26, 2010 17:47:37 GMT -5
I was watching Smackdown on Youtube earlier and they said Thunderstruck by AC/DC was the other official theme of Wrestlemania. just passing it along.
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Post by The Undertaker on Feb 26, 2010 21:11:49 GMT -5
I wasn't saying anything about Razor. I was talking about his match with HBK. Taker's matches with Bundy, A-Train and Show, Mark Henry, and Diesel were not that good at all. And when you compare them to HBK's matches with Bret, Angle, Flair, HHH and Benoit, Jericho, Austin, and Razor, i'd say HBK was a far better performer. You are baseing them on his oppnents .Its not takers fault that he had to face those guys . Look the HBK vs Diesel at WM11 , it wasn't all that either. But when taker faces the "athletic " wrestlers he can so alot more things with them. Btw , when he fought Mark Henry he flew off the ring ; don't you forget. I know, i remember, that was a good dive. But, yet again, i never specifically said it was Taker's fault those matches weren't good. But they werent good. Mostly because of his opponents. I never said he was the reason why.
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Post by J12 on Feb 27, 2010 2:14:38 GMT -5
Can't believe they're using AC/DC again. It's been too long since we've had a Wrestlemania theme that actually meant something to the event. The last one that really worked was "Ladies & Gentleman" for 'Mania 23.
Aside from that, I'm already really excited for Mania. Truth to be told, we're really getting spoiled this year. Two months ago, we were heading into what could possibly be one of the worst line ups we've ever seen for Mania, but WWE managed to really pull a 180 and get themselves together for the better.
We're not all the way home yet, and things could still go awry, but this is definitely shaping up to be one of the best Wrestlemania's on paper in a long time. For once, we've got matches that involve so much chemistry that we're almost guaranteed excellent, borderline classic matches. The downfall of that, of course, is that should one of those matches not full out deliver, we're in for some pretty big disappointment.
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Post by gordon on Feb 27, 2010 8:08:39 GMT -5
Aside from that, I'm already really excited for Mania. Truth to be told, we're really getting spoiled this year. Two months ago, we were heading into what could possibly be one of the worst line ups we've ever seen for Mania, but WWE managed to really pull a 180 and get themselves together for the better. How the hell do you work that one out?
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Post by wabarrett on Feb 27, 2010 8:19:09 GMT -5
My God the card this year is shaping up to be absolutely amazing. Undertaker vs. Michaels: Streak vs. Career, Cena vs. Batista for the WWE title, Edge vs. Jericho for the World title and the Money in the Bank ladder match (with four great participants so far) already spells a great WrestleMania.
If there is Hart vs. McMahon, Orton vs. DiBiase, Punk vs. Mysterio (maybe leave out the hair vs. mask stipulation?), a Tag Team titles match and/ or U.S title match, and of course cauldrons of fire lining the entrance way, this is possibly gonna be my favorite WrestleMania. Honestly.
p.s. AC/DC - Thunderstruck is an awesome song for WrestleMania. It hits hard and has a big-time feel, so in my humble opinion it's gonna rock.
p.s.s How awesome are the WrestleMania match graphics?
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Post by yankeesforever on Feb 27, 2010 10:47:56 GMT -5
My God the card this year is shaping up to be absolutely amazing. Undertaker vs. Michaels: Streak vs. Career, Cena vs. Batista for the WWE title, Edge vs. Jericho for the World title and the Money in the Bank ladder match (with four great participants so far) already spells a great WrestleMania. If there is Hart vs. McMahon, Orton vs. DiBiase, Punk vs. Mysterio (maybe leave out the hair vs. mask stipulation?), a Tag Team titles match and/ or U.S title match, and of course cauldrons of fire lining the entrance way, this is possibly gonna be my favorite WrestleMania. Honestly. p.s. AC/DC - Thunderstruck is an awesome song for WrestleMania. It hits hard and has a big-time feel, so in my humble opinion it's gonna rock. p.s.s How awesome are the WrestleMania match graphics? YES YES YES Willbuh . This has a chance to go under WM17&WM19 . Even if we get Triple H vs Sheamus , it be awesome. And yes , the Mania 26 graphics are amazing .
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Post by Barrett on Feb 27, 2010 11:38:22 GMT -5
I'm glad they didn't waste any time announcing matches this year. It's a great line-up, reminiscent of WM19 when there was so many matches to look forward to and several that could be viable main events.
I'm not thrilled with them using another AC/DC song but meh. PPV themes in general don't mean anywhere near as much as they used to. I'd like to find out that one more song is going to be used as a WM theme, but considering we already have two official themes and I imagine they'll stick with Placebo for the Undertaker/HBK's promo, it looks like the Kevin Rudolf song is the most WM-esque song we'll get this year.
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leafs911
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Post by leafs911 on Feb 27, 2010 11:44:54 GMT -5
honestly this WM is really shaping up to be similar to WM 19 on paper . . . . . . WM 26 has the chance to be one of the better WM's of all time
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