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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Aug 20, 2010 18:00:30 GMT -5
Why do you have that sig? You didn't start watching TNA until 2010. I demand you take it off. I've liked Raven since 97.... And I don't mind that you do, but it's not a fair comparison at all, if you didn't watch the original ECW... I have seen the original and I don't like it, I think it's garbage. I didn't watch it when it first aired, I've seen like videos and stuff. I really don't see how there's a difference, it's the same exact sh*t. Just because people are basing their opinions based on what they've seen on tape and not by seeing the original airing of ECW, doesn't make their opinions any less credible, and to think otherwise is absurd.
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Post by No Brokeback on Aug 20, 2010 18:06:49 GMT -5
If you watched it, then why are you arguing my post? It was mainly for those who haven't watched it at all and were making blind comparisons.
But I very much disagree that watching tapes and watching something live gives off a much different feeling. In a way, I could compare it to sports games. You wouldn't watch an old sports game from the 90's and have that same excitement you would if it were a live broadcast on your TV (this is a bad argument, but decent enough example). What you watch of that old game doesn't matter anymore, no matter how good of a game it was, you're not living in that moment to get the full effect of what you just watched.
Just like if I were to go back and watch some Attitude era or early 90's stuff. Sure its great and entertaining. But it doesn't give off that same exciting feel that it did watching it live.
We've seen ECW style matches all over the place in WWE. But when you saw someone smacked over the head so hard or going through a table or a ladder being used back in 97...that was a BIG deal, you didn't really expect the craziness. Now, we're so used to it, that that stuff doesn't even matter and isn't a big deal at all.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Aug 20, 2010 18:14:14 GMT -5
If you watched it, then why are you arguing my post? It was mainly for those who haven't watched it at all and were making blind comparisons. But I very much disagree that watching tapes and watching something live gives off a much different feeling. In a way, I could compare it to sports games. You wouldn't watch an old sports game from the 90's and have that same excitement you would if it were a live broadcast on your TV (this is a bad argument, but decent enough example). What you watch of that old game doesn't matter anymore, no matter how good of a game it was, you're not living in that moment to get the full effect of what you just watched. Just like if I were to go back and watch some Attitude era or early 90's stuff. Sure its great and entertaining. But it doesn't give off that same exciting feel that it did watching it live. We've seen ECW style matches all over the place in WWE. But when you saw someone smacked over the head so hard or going through a table or a ladder being used back in 97...that was a BIG deal, you didn't really expect the craziness. Now, we're so used to it, that that stuff doesn't even matter and isn't a big deal at all. I'm arguing with you because you basically said that my opinion doesn't matter or count since I never watched ECW when it first aired. I also don't agree with what you're saying, people watch a lot of old wrestling episodes thanks to WWE Classics, if someone says they liked the WWF era over the Attitude Era or over the current era based on what they've seen that isn't live, their opinion still matters, whether you want to accept it or not.
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Post by No Brokeback on Aug 20, 2010 18:21:03 GMT -5
I don't care if people say the attitude era is better than this era or not, wrestling isn't that important to me. But why would someone compare one wrestling era to another if they haven't really experience the other era to begin with? It's illogical and wouldn't make any sense to do that.
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Post by Byron F'N Saxton Fan on Aug 20, 2010 18:25:50 GMT -5
If you watched it, then why are you arguing my post? It was mainly for those who haven't watched it at all and were making blind comparisons. But I very much disagree that watching tapes and watching something live gives off a much different feeling. In a way, I could compare it to sports games. You wouldn't watch an old sports game from the 90's and have that same excitement you would if it were a live broadcast on your TV (this is a bad argument, but decent enough example). What you watch of that old game doesn't matter anymore, no matter how good of a game it was, you're not living in that moment to get the full effect of what you just watched. Just like if I were to go back and watch some Attitude era or early 90's stuff. Sure its great and entertaining. But it doesn't give off that same exciting feel that it did watching it live. We've seen ECW style matches all over the place in WWE. But when you saw someone smacked over the head so hard or going through a table or a ladder being used back in 97...that was a BIG deal, you didn't really expect the craziness. Now, we're so used to it, that that stuff doesn't even matter and isn't a big deal at all. If I've never seen the game or PPV and don't know at least most of the results, then I'm excited to watch it and see what happens. Anyways, it's very long and was written the day of the final ECW on Syfy, but the point still holds true about the "new" ECW: "EC DUB! EC DUB! EC DUB! EC DUB!" The chant that lives in infamy for being the unofficial soundtrack of Extreme Championship Wrestling, along with its Play-by-Play man, Joey Styles. 17 years after it started, almost nine years after it went bankrupt, and nearly five years after it was resurrected, ECW is coming to what looks to be a final hault. ECW, established in 1993(free T-shirt idea there) as Eastern Championship Wrestling started as simply just another Independent wrestling promotion in the northeast, operating out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. After hiring the recently-fired Paul Heyman from WCW, then-ECW Commissioner and owner Todd Gordon would soon see a change in his product's philosophy. August 27th, 1994, the date on which Shane Douglas won the finals of the NWA Championship Tournament, defeating 2 Cold Scorpio. Instead of celebrating and flaunting with jubilation in his eyes, Shane Douglas threw down the NWA Championship Belt during his post-match promo, tearing apart the NWA legacy. From that point Douglas christened his Eastern Championship Wrestling title, the only World title in Eastern Championship Wrestling according to him as the Extreme World title. ECW soon after became, well, ECW. This time however, the "E" in ECW stood for Extreme. In 2001 after a national TV deal of only 13 and 1/2 months, countless stars who had risen, or just passed through through the ranks of ECW to find employment elsewhere, as well as countless controversies had occurred, ECW, through Paul Heyman filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. After it's final Pay-Per-View event Guilty as Charged, ECW closed its doors. Paul Heyman went almost immediately to what was then the World Wrestling Federation, who bought the ECW name and rights and many other assets, as the color commentator alongside Jim Ross for RAW, replacing the recently released Jerry "The King" Lawler. In July of 2001, many contracted WWF competitors who had affiliations with ECW, as well as stars who were with ECW at the end reunited with Paul Heyman as the leader to assist in waging a war upon Vince McMahon's WWF, with Shane McMahon's WCW alongside. Paul Heyman sold ECW to Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley, then returning to the RAW Announce Table to be the voice of the Alliance as ECW and WCW together were known as, over the headset. November 18th, 2001. The date in which the now defunct Survivor Series Pay-Per-View event took place, and in the Main Event, Team WWF defeated Team Alliance, to rid the World Wrestling Federation of the Alliance stable. The next night on RAW, everything went back to normal, with Paul Heyman being replaced by his own predecessor, Jerry "The King" Lawler on commentary. In 2004, only two days prior to the three year-anniversary of the "ECW" name being retired from WWF, now-World Wrestling Entertainment Television as a brand/stable, WWE released a five-hour long documentary DVD titled "The Rise and Fall of ECW", chronicling the then-eight year operation of ECW. Before the DVD was released, Paul Heyman who had remained on WWE Television from the Summer of 2002 until 2004 in varying roles helped host Byte This, WWE.com's then-hit web show. The success of the DVD was so large, that by the end of 2004, WWE had scheduled an ECW reunion show titled "One Night Stand" for June 15th, 2005. During the build-up of One Night Stand, several ECW stars of old, and many contracted WWE performers with ties to ECW helped wage a war against RAW and SmackDown's ECW critics, otherwise known as the "Crusaders". ECW invading WWE? Sounds familiar. Crusaders included the figurehead of WCW through the 1990's, also then-RAW General Manager Eric Bishcoff, who held a funeral for ECW which brought out both Paul Heyman and Vince McMahon, who at the time probably didn't know it, but gave us the biggest foreshadowing in recent wrestling history, but we'll get to that later on. ECW One Night Stand took place in the Hammerstein Ballroom, which also hosted RAW for the first four years of its tenure and saw an ECW invasion of WWE, then-WWF's RAW in 1997. The closing image of ECW One Night Stand, or at least the last few events were mostly WWE-contracted wrestlers, after ridding the ring of the Crusaders, performed all their finishing moves individually on the Crusaders leader, Eric Biscoff, including a Stone Cold Stunner, by ECW Original, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. On June 13th 2006, after it was announced ECW would be re-introduced as a brand of WWE Television, after Paul Heyman drafted Big Show and Kurt Angle(the man who walked out of an ECW event in the 90's after Sandman was crucified on a wooden crucifix hanging on the ropes, a bloody mess), after Rob Van Dam defeated John Cena at ECW One Night Stand II for the WWE Championship(including unwanted help from Edge), RVD officially christened himself ECW Champion after initially doing so on the previous night's RAW. ECW on Sci-Fi was the name, and it took off from there. Returning with ECW Originals such as Sabu, who had KO'd himself and Rey Mysterio in a WWE World Title Match after a crash landing on top of Mysterio, through a table propped upon the guardrails and the ring apron, Sandman with his patent Kendo Stick and cold bruschi in tow, Roadkill, C.W. Anderson, Danny Doring, Tony Mamaluke and the rest of the Full Blooded Italians(with ECW "Vixen" Trinity taking Tracy Smothers' spot in a change that was fine by me) and the newest ECW draftees, Kurt Angle and Big Show. July 4th, 2006. The date that RVD's first-and-last ECW Championship reign was ended by Big Show with assistance from ECW's Representative/GM figure, Paul Heyman in the birthplace of ECW, South Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. RVD had done something never before done in WWE history, as after losing the WWE Championship on the previous night's RAW, and then his losing of his ECW Championship to Big Show the next night, he became the first competitor in WWE history to lose two World Titles it consecutive nights. ECW's debut year, or half-year ended with what is the only ECW exclusive Pay-Per-View in ECW's modern-era history, December to Dismember. Considered by almost everyone as the worst Pay-Per-View of 2006, which ended with now-MMA's undefeated Bobby Lashley standing tall over Big Show in an "Extreme Elimination Chamber" as the new ECW Champion. Paul Heyman was the scapegoat for the what WWE considered atrocious Pay-Per-View which received a miserable buyrate. ECW seemingly took a change in philosophy after that event, which also was the end of Big Show's initial WWE tenure. We fast forward to 2008. Go ahead, fast forward on your VCR. What? You don't use a VCR? Weird. After a year which produced Vince McMahon as ECW Champion, an ECW star and his family losing their lives in tragic and sadistic fashion, Bobby Lashely's second reign as ECW Champion, ECW in arguably it's most historic moment, let alone WrestleMania moment, WCW's Monday night show winning the ECW Title only to reinvent himself days later as an even bigger star and to soon there-after be suspended with his subsequent WWE Wellness Policy violation and the Straightedge takeover of WWE began, 2008 began. ECW debuted it's version of the WWE HD set, and apparently Mike Adamle was pat of that package. 2008 saw ECW give us Chavo Guerrero as a World Champion? I'm not complaining seeing RAW every week now. Kane defeated Chavo Guerrero in the shortest WretleMania Match of all-time at WrestleMania 24 in Orlando, Florida claiming the ECW Championship after only eight seconds of facing Chavo. 2008 is when the straight-out of Developmental ECW started to take center-stage. 2008 gave us gems like Bam Neely, Colin Delaney, DJ Gabriel, official ECW jobber James Curtis(ironic how Chavo was the ECW Champ when Curtis was on ECW isn't it?) and of course, Braden Walker. Still waiting on the VH1: Behind the Music on that Theme song of his. ECW in 2008 did however elevate the career of at the time the Jamaican sensation who was Jamaican us all crazy, Kofi Kingston. Now prominent RAW Diva Alicia Fox also came out of ECW in 2008. Michael Hayes let the ECW Writers do their show their own way year apparently. Teacher-turned-Wrestler Matt Striker then became wrestler-turned commentator as he shined with Todd Grisham at the ECW Announce Team, winning the 2008 Slammy for Announce Team of the year, and WWE Magazine's 2008 "Commentator of the Year" award, all despite being a Commentator for a mere five months. The year ended with Matt Hardy claiming his first World Championship, but would soon lose it to.....Somebody in The Year 2009. After Matt Striker's dancing closed ECW's 2008 year, we soon there-after crowned a new ECW Champion. January 13th, 2009 came and delivered with the first ever WWE-associated World Champion born in Oklahoma, in the All American-American, Jack SWAGGAH! Swagger's reign would last only until Backlash of that year after Christian returned to WWE on the ECW brand in February, and beat Swagger at Backlash. The last ECW Original, Tommy Dreamer was granted a 1-day Contract extension in June by ECW General Manager, the Insatiable Tiffany. No last name? I guess we'll just go with Tiffany Tiffany. Tommy Dreamer won the ECW Championship at Extreme Rules after defeating Christian and Jack Swagger in an Extre....I mean Hardcore Triple-Threat Match. Tommy Dreamer became the first ECW Superstar from ECW's initial run to win the ECW Title in its modern-era. Dreamer's reign would la.....WAIT! Woo Woo Woo, You Know It. Zack Ryder re-debuted on ECW as a cocky and arrogant dude from Jersey. His gimmick was a guy from New Jersey as you can tell. Back to the ECW Title thing, whatever. Dreamer's second reign as ECW Champion lasted longer than 28 minutes, this time lasting a month and two Pay-Per-Views as he was victorious in an ECW Championship Scramble Match at The Bash, but lost to Christian in ECW's birthplace of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania at Night of Champions, to Christain, thus giving Christian his second ECW Title reign, and our current reigning....and defending E...C...W Champion, OF THE WORLD! Despite a change in ECW authority, the New Superstar Initiative was as strong as ever. It was dare I say, insatiable. 2009 brought us Yoshi Tatsu, Abraham Washington, Trent Baretta and Caylen Croft aka The DudeBusters, the "INTENSE" Vance Archer (Love that sport in the Olympics), ECW Color Commentator Byron Saxton, current-WWE Champion Sheamus and a man who might as well be considered a new Superstar after reviving his career on ECW in 2009, Gol......DUST! 2009 for ECW ended with an ECW Homecoming Tournament featuring former modern-era Superstars competing in Matches to face ECW Champion Christian at January's Royal Rumble event. Ezekiel Jackson won the ECW Homecoming Tournament which gave the new Ruthless Roundtable consisting of William Regal and Ezekiel Jackson a chance to grasp the ECW Championship which was so close to being Master Regal's, but even Domination couldn't out-do the host of The Peep Show, Christian. Woah, that's 2010 stuff. ECW truly ended 2009 with Zack Ryder defeating Tommy Dreamer to retire Tommy Dreamer from the WWE Ring, and thus ridding ECW of all those who competed in it's initial run. Now it's time for 2010. 2010 for ECW after the Royal Rumble was not the best of times, but it was the worst of times. February 2nd was the day in which Vince McMahon announced the final ECW on Syfy episode would air on February 16, or today. He told us not to worry, as there was a new and innovative show debuting in ECW's place after tonight with some sweet Kings of Leon....some sweet Wild & Young, I mean. So here we are; the final ECW ever. You can debate whether or not today's ECW should be counted as part of ECW's legacy. Do you know the answer? You don't? Well come right here. A little closer. A liiiittle closer. The answer is YES! Today's ECW accomplished everything that it did in its initial run. Woah, I just said the Original ECW and today's were the same thing. I didn't separate them with "Original" and "Modern-era" when I talked about it. So bold of me because ECW lacked fire and explosion. Look, now I'm not even separating them even in the slightest. It's all one thing, Extreme Championship Wrestling. Here's a Breakdown in Sean Salisbury on Cheap Seats fashion. E, standing for Extreme. We had plenty of Extreme in the later years of ECW(2006-2007, plenty of other Hardcore after that time, for those naive ones who still consider today's ECW separate from Heyman's). We had blood, ECW Originals(there's a bone for you) and plenty of weapons. Now we have Extremely good Wrestling. Uh-oh, I spoiled the W for later. C, standing for Championship. The ECW Championship has been defended numerous times, and in great Matches. Finally, W, standing for Wrestling. Wrestling, wrestling wrestling. We all crave it, yet when we get it, the majority look down on it because it was lesser-know stars doing it on ECW week-in and week-out. I'm sorry, who was Chris Jericho in ECW? Super Liger? Alrighty then. Who was Eddie Guerrero at that point? An aspiring Lucha Libre competitor? Yes. Same goes for every one of the men who came to ECW to wrestle in a pure style. Wait, now the scenics are out of excuses. What will we do? I guess we'll just celebrate the final ECW in what looks to be history. Let's do that.
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Post by Jimmy on Aug 20, 2010 18:36:27 GMT -5
TNA Mark is a dick. I get what he's trying to say and it's true, people don't give ECW the proper respect it deserves. On the other hand you get people like him who go overboard with praise. The real truth is in the balance inbetween.
Look I love WW-ECW as much as anybody but I still say you can't compare a one hour show on Tuesdays with an promotion. Sure, In a vacuum I enjoyed WWE's more than the original but they're two seperate entities.
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Post by King of Kings on Aug 20, 2010 18:52:48 GMT -5
TNA Mark is a dick. I get what he's trying to say and it's true, people don't give ECW the proper respect it deserves. On the other hand you get people like him who go overboard with praise. The real truth is in the balance inbetween. Look I love WW-ECW as much as anybody but I still say you can't compare a one hour show on Tuesdays with an promotion. Sure, In a vacuum I enjoyed WWE's more than the original but they're two seperate entities. His name's TNA Mark... >.> I liked both ECW's. I'm more of a fan of the original but I did like the WWECW.
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Post by No Brokeback on Aug 20, 2010 19:22:33 GMT -5
TNA Mark is a dick. I get what he's trying to say and it's true, people don't give ECW the proper respect it deserves. On the other hand you get people like him who go overboard with praise. The real truth is in the balance inbetween. Look I love WW-ECW as much as anybody but I still say you can't compare a one hour show on Tuesdays with an promotion. Sure, In a vacuum I enjoyed WWE's more than the original but they're two seperate entities. Where the hell did I praise ECW? Other than saying them using weapons was a big deal, a much bigger deal compared to now. I didn't like it much myself, but in my opinion it was much better than watching a revamped Sunday Night Heat.
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Post by slappy on Aug 20, 2010 19:28:21 GMT -5
That's not even the same thing at all. If you're comparing Ric Flair (present) to Ric Flair (Past). And say without a doubt that he's better now then he ever was before, without really watching any of his past matches, then it's an unfair and illogical statement. Since you said we didn't watch original ECW, we can't say WWECW was better. So with that logic, we can't say that the NWA was better than the current WWE or TNA, because I wasn't born yet and didn't watch it. I'm just using your words and you are now backing off of it.
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Post by No Brokeback on Aug 20, 2010 19:30:09 GMT -5
That's not even the same thing at all. If you're comparing Ric Flair (present) to Ric Flair (Past). And say without a doubt that he's better now then he ever was before, without really watching any of his past matches, then it's an unfair and illogical statement. Since you said we didn't watch original ECW, we can't say WWECW was better. So with that logic, we can't say that the NWA was better than the current WWE or TNA, because I wasn't born yet and didn't watch it. I'm just using your words and you are now backing off of it. Since you didn't watch it, you can't compare them. That would be illogical. Thats what i've been saying
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Aug 20, 2010 19:39:05 GMT -5
I don't care if people say the attitude era is better than this era or not, wrestling isn't that important to me. But why would someone compare one wrestling era to another if they haven't really experience the other era to begin with? It's illogical and wouldn't make any sense to do that. I was using the Attitude Era as an example. You don't have to experience an era to determine whether you like it or not, I wasn't born in the 70s but I still love 70s music. I didn't watch ECW when it was first on TV but from what I have seen of it, I can tell it's not something I would have enjoyed so I prefer the WWE's version of ECW over the original. But just because I didn't experience ECW when during it's heyday, doesn't make my opinion any less valid.
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Post by slappy on Aug 20, 2010 20:27:59 GMT -5
Since you said we didn't watch original ECW, we can't say WWECW was better. So with that logic, we can't say that the NWA was better than the current WWE or TNA, because I wasn't born yet and didn't watch it. I'm just using your words and you are now backing off of it. Since you didn't watch it, you can't compare them. That would be illogical. Thats what i've been saying Well I don't care, NWA was and is still better than TNA or the WWE. And WWECW was better than ECW.
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Post by tnafan17: The Total Package on Aug 20, 2010 21:06:32 GMT -5
I only caught the last 6 months of ECW on TNN. Going back and watching the DVDs from the original I thoroughly enjoyed the product. I enjoyed WWECW as well & think they did a great job of building stars, especially with only a short amount of time to play with each Tuesday.
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dante123
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 28, 2009 13:04:39 GMT -5
Posts: 2,420
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Post by dante123 on Aug 20, 2010 22:06:49 GMT -5
I prefer WWE's version of ECW over the original. Im actually gonna have to agree as it brought us alot of new stars. John morrison wasnt doing anything until he went to ECW. CM punk got his start in ecw and slowly built his way up to be a main eventer. Kofi kingston has become a big star imo. I just liked wwecw alot for some reason and kinda wished it didnt get replaced by nxt. on the side jack swagger
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The Boglin
Main Eventer
Team Goldie.
Joined on: Apr 20, 2005 16:46:22 GMT -5
Posts: 4,171
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Post by The Boglin on Aug 20, 2010 22:40:00 GMT -5
WWECW better then the real ECW? Really? Only on Wfigs I guess. the statement is so.....I cant find a polite word to use actually, any way I can't even begin to argue because it's just a ridiculous thing to say.
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Post by Eat Defeat. on Aug 20, 2010 23:15:44 GMT -5
Ev2.0 is better than both versions of ECW
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Post by slappy on Aug 20, 2010 23:16:28 GMT -5
WWECW better then the real ECW? Really? Only on Wfigs I guess. the statement is so.....I cant find a polite word to use actually, any way I can't even begin to argue because it's just a ridiculous thing to say. WWECW created more stars than ECW ever thought of creating.
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Post by Jimmy on Aug 21, 2010 0:07:02 GMT -5
Again though I say you can't compare the two. Of course WW-ECW made more stars, it's the multi-million dollar company WWE! Regardless of the name it was still a regular WWE show with new content every week. Besides name, and it's later profeciency for getting guys over/noticed, it has nothing in common with the original ECW.
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Post by wabarrett on Aug 21, 2010 5:07:33 GMT -5
I actually loved that first month of ECW returning; WWE vs. ECW: Head to Head was very entertaining. One Night Stand was a great PPV, and it was good to see the likes of Dreamer, Terry Funk, Sabu, Sandman and the F.B.I. again. RVD, Angle and Big Show heading over to the brand to give it some star power was great too. The first week with the Extreme Battle Royal to determine Cena's opponent at Vengeance was good fun as well.
Basically this new, almost re-hashed invasion was great. Sadly though, ECW soon became dominated by the likes of Test and Mike Knox, and then Kevin Thorn, and then Elijah Burke, Matt Striker and Monty Brown. Before long Heyman had The Bashams as his bodyguards, and every week saw a handicap match with them involved. December to Dismember happened.
And then ECW changed a lot. With the Smackdown/ ECW talent exchange, there were more ineresting matches, granted... But really, ECW was just a C show. Yes, some talent got a break there, which is good. But that didn't make the show that interesting for me. The ECW title was recreated, and had no prestige whatsoever. Nothing seemed that important on each show. In it's final year or so, ECW was basically the same thing every week; Christian as champ, Regal and his Roundtable vying for the gold and not ever getting it, Abe Washington (let's be honest, aimlessly) interviweing superstars for all of about 2 minutes, and Zack Ryder and Hurricane having a relatively go nowhere feud (Ryder's promos consisting of the line 'Are you serious?' and 'I wanna be called the Heart and Soul Superhero of ECW', possibly the worst nickname ever.)
Glad it's gone to be honest, as NXT has proven to be somewhat of a success, and is serving more of a purpose than ECW did for the majority of its run.
Don't bash me, don't put something stupid like 'Haters gonna hate' or 'Oh, here's willbuh to hate on ECW just to be against the grain'.
You know I didn't like it much, this is just a reflection on the brand.
EDIT: Just thought I'd let everyone know, I'm not some fanatic of the original ECW. I only caught the last year or so of it before it folded. Even though that was kinda enjoyable, I'm not really a big fan of excessive blood and over-the-top storylines, or watching talentless hacks brutalise each other every week (that is partly what ECW was in the 90s). However, the original ECW did create many stars that have since shone brightly in WWE. So... ya know.
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Post by No Brokeback on Aug 21, 2010 5:53:08 GMT -5
Can you even say ECW created stars? They had their handful of people, but it wasn't until they went into a different company they were made to be 'stars'.
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