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Post by sincityhero on Jun 14, 2007 5:09:02 GMT -5
I always hear and read that Business was REAL down for WWF when Diesel was champion is this true? Everybody always ****s on 95-96 and early 90s for wrestling in general and stuff, were these years really THAT bad? And did business go up after Diesel lost the belt? Ive seen wrestling in those years and it wasnt as bad as people claim. Some was pretty good acually.
Also how was WCW at this time in your opinions? Some good some bad in my opinion. ECW was just getting into its element and was pretty damn good.
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Post by moogie101 on Jun 14, 2007 5:33:04 GMT -5
I actually liked Diesel's matches with Bret Hart from that Era & thought as a big guy he was a good worker. However the reason diesel's reign is so badly thought of is the guys he wrestled, his title feuds were mainly Sid & bloody King Mabel which meant poor matches all round. I don't recall business jumping up that much when Bret & then HBK got the belts, in fact I'm sure at the time I remember reading that HBK's reign was even worse at the gate & TV ratings. That may have been due mainly to thew Steriod Court Case which led to vince focusing on smaller more technical guys & trying to sell that to an audience who for the previous ten years had been fed a diet of steriod monsters & the ideal that bigger was better. As for the effect Diesel & other champions had on PPV buyrates check out this link which list every PPV Buyrate in WWE History. Diesel's reign lasted from 26/11/94-19/11/95 www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfppvbr.htmHope that helps, that site is really good & might give you some info about how WCW was faring at the boxoffice etc.
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Post by Sam Hain on Jun 14, 2007 8:29:02 GMT -5
WWF's gates and ppv buy rates were higher with Nash as champ than Bret or Michaels.
The steroid trial had nothing to do with it, that ended in 1994, which is why Vince began using bigger guys like Sid and Nash as his top stars again in late 1994/1995.
I actually thought Diesel was a good champ. I marked out huge for him since his debut and loved seeing him beat Backlund. He had a solid run, but bad opponents. I still find 1993-1996 was the best time for wrestling in the WWF. Great matches on TV every week.
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Post by brosius98 on Jun 14, 2007 8:40:17 GMT -5
Nash wasn't that bad of a champion. He was a legit badass who, for his size, was able to go when with the right opponent. Much better than Batista.
Like noted previously, the mid-90's was a dark time for wrestling due to the steroid allegations on Vince and his company. It was an ugly situation which didn't help garner the business any positive media coverage.
Again do not soley blame Nash. I'd place the blame on the cast of rejects he had working underneath him. It's hard to boom the business when crap like Man Mountain Rock, TL Hopper, and Issac Yankeem is being spewed out left and right.
WCW was doing about the same as the WWF during late-95 (likely a bit better). It wasn't until the whole nWo storyline began in June of '96 that business really started to pick up for them.
Believe it or not, but WWE actually did even worse under Michaels initial run as WWF champ. This is not a reflection of Shawn, as he gave 110% each match and stole the show every night, but again it was due to a few factors. The company was stuck in between the Hulkamania era and the Attitude era where they were trying to find a new niche. Vince couldn't shake this rut and when the nWo took off, WWF was left in the dust.
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Post by szatowski420 on Jun 14, 2007 15:17:32 GMT -5
I heard that when Warrior was champ he didn't draw either which I find hard to believe since he was pretty popular back in the day. As for Diesel, he's not well liked by the IWC, so maybe someone from the IWC reported that and everybody believed it because Nash is not a good wrestler. HBK drew less than he did, but since HBK is a good wrestler nobody from the IWC will tell you about him not drawing fans. I remember going to a show at MSG in 1996 when he was the champ and it was far from sold out.
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Post by slappy on Jun 14, 2007 15:19:47 GMT -5
So, in a way. Nash > HBK and Bret Hart. Ha!
I like Nash and liked that he was champ.
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Post by sincityhero on Jun 14, 2007 16:57:47 GMT -5
I liked Diesel as champ for the record. It wasnt meant to bash him just meant to find out why everybody crapted on those years.
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Post by blu3blazer on Jun 14, 2007 21:15:30 GMT -5
I liked Diesel as champ. Their TV ratings were probably the lowest that they ever were in the history of the company though. I don't think they were even getting 2.0 ratings back then.
I don't think it all had to do with Diesel though. This was the era of the extremely cartoonish gimmicks. Doink the Clown, Duke the Dumpster Droese, TL Hopper, The Goon, Abe "Knucklball" Schwartz, Mantaur, etc. It really turned off most of the older fans at the time. Older fans control the money, so they're the ones buying PPVs, merchandise, event tickets, etc.
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Post by hammerhead on Jun 14, 2007 22:17:06 GMT -5
In the summer of 1995, I went to a WWF Show at the Sayreville High School Gym in New Jersey. I thought WWF was on is way to going out of buisness.
Main Event was Bam Bam Bigelow vs. King Kong Bundy
Also on the card was Savio Vega vs. King Mabel and Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Doink The Clown
It was a pitiful show. I just remember thinking about how Bret, Diesel, HBK & Razor didn't bother to be at the event.
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Post by szatowski420 on Jun 15, 2007 13:27:50 GMT -5
In the summer of 1995, I went to a WWF Show at the Sayreville High School Gym in New Jersey. I thought WWF was on is way to going out of buisness. Main Event was Bam Bam Bigelow vs. King Kong Bundy Also on the card was Savio Vega vs. King Mabel and Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Doink The Clown It was a pitiful show. I just remember thinking about how Bret, Diesel, HBK & Razor didn't bother to be at the event. Well i guess since it was in a high school gym, they didn't feel they should have the big starts working the show. Although it would've been nice for the fans in attendance such as yourself.
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Post by madplex on Jun 17, 2007 22:40:47 GMT -5
I didn't like Nash as champ simply because he was taking up Bret's spot. Bret should've been champion again in early 1995 through 1996 and him dropping the belt to Shawn at Mania XII wouldn't have been so personal as he would've had his time with the belt. It would've benefitted Shawn even more because he would've dethroned someone that was damn near impossible to beat since 94-96.
And if Vince really wanted a big man world champion for 1995 why didn't he pick the best possible candidate of them all in Scott Hall? He's a far better wrestler and babyface than Nash ever was. Razor Ramon as WWF World Heavyweight champion would've been awesome.
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Post by sincityhero on Jun 18, 2007 0:00:31 GMT -5
Agreed Hall should've been champ.
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Post by Andrewghbk99 on Jun 18, 2007 8:08:35 GMT -5
Wasn't it the fans who started cheering Diesel? After his RR 94(I think) appearance and how he dominated in it they started slowly cheering him. Then I think again after his match with Hart at KOTR 94 that's when they really started liking him.(I could be wrong) Then when he broke away from Shawn thats when the "Face" factor was complete. So I imo don't think it had anything to do with Nash/Diesel.
I did how-ever feel bad that he had to fued with King Mabel, wow what a horrible fued. His fued with HBK was ok but I felt it was kinda rushed a little.
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Dwight
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 10, 2007 11:02:46 GMT -5
Posts: 2,686
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Post by Dwight on Jun 18, 2007 12:29:24 GMT -5
People were getting tired of the loony toon business the WWF had become. They attempted to get away from the "real American's" and just use people that seemed "real". At this point, many older fans tuned wrestling out or watched WCW. And a new audience tuned in. This is why business was down.
They weren't that low for long as fans began to accept the change by 96'.
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DJ619
Main Eventer
Owner of 99% warning level for nothing.
Joined on: Jul 18, 2006 7:23:58 GMT -5
Posts: 1,509
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Post by DJ619 on Jun 18, 2007 16:05:13 GMT -5
In the Mid 90's it was all about family entertainment.No space for hardcore and the other stuff.I actually loved Diesel!He was awesome...
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The Boglin
Main Eventer
Team Goldie.
Joined on: Apr 20, 2005 16:46:22 GMT -5
Posts: 4,171
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Post by The Boglin on Jun 18, 2007 19:14:32 GMT -5
I didn't like Nash as champ simply because he was taking up Bret's spot. Bret should've been champion again in early 1995 through 1996 and him dropping the belt to Shawn at Mania XII wouldn't have been so personal as he would've had his time with the belt. It would've benefitted Shawn even more because he would've dethroned someone that was damn near impossible to beat since 94-96. And if Vince really wanted a big man world champion for 1995 why didn't he pick the best possible candidate of them all in Scott Hall? He's a far better wrestler and babyface than Nash ever was. Razor Ramon as WWF World Heavyweight champion would've been awesome. Very good points, I agree on all of it.
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Post by stevecorinoisgod on Jun 18, 2007 23:54:18 GMT -5
I've never seen anyone crap on 1990-1994...those were the last years of the golden era.
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