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Post by tnafan17: The Total Package on May 30, 2011 20:35:44 GMT -5
My question to you guys is, how would you have felt had the Stinger been apart of the Invasion? Granted, he would not have faced the real "Deadman" so to speak but it would have been interesting.
It's definitely odd to me that he didn't contact many of WCWs big names until AFTER the actual Invasion (Steiner, Goldberg, Nash). It looked really bad to me that he made Booker T start out so strong at KOTR that year and then after one month of the storyline he is already dropping the title belt to The Rock. After that the guy was turned into a joke. Same with DDP. But looking back on it now (I was in 6th grade then), he just wanted to make the Alliance look weak to boost his own ego. I think we ALL can agree on that.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 12:38:21 GMT -5
for me Sting wouldnt have fit at all....and Im glad he wasnt a part of it.
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Post by cordless2016 on May 31, 2011 12:45:15 GMT -5
Vince would have probably burried Sting faster than he did DDP, and Sting probably would have been fighting for the Hardcore or European titles like DDP by WrestleMania.
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Post by tnafan17: The Total Package on May 31, 2011 15:55:08 GMT -5
^^ Very good points you guys. I guess I tend to forget at times how Vince wants to bury talent that he didn't initially create into stars.
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Post by done on Jun 1, 2011 10:56:16 GMT -5
I agree with all your points!
DDP - WWF champ maybe twice
Booker T - WWF champ maybe at least twice
Mike Awesome - having ''Awesome'' matches with Austin, The Rock and other superstars and a WWF title win
Programming:
WWF RAW - (Mondays as usual)
Nitro - (with the cruiserweights, tag teams and mid cards and uppermids on the show mostly and some main event all from both WWF, WCW and ECW.)
eXtreme - ECW superstars mostly with some WWF superstars win the Hardcore and ECW title)
WWF SD! - (Thursdays)
titles:
World title:
WWF Championship
World Championship (WCW's title)
ECW's (Higher Mid Carder, for eXtreme contenders only e.g. no Vince Mcmahon winning it.):
eXtreme Championship
Secondary:
Intercontinental Championship
U.S. Championship
European Championship
Lower Card:
T.V. Championship (only TV no PPV's and also upper cards can win but mostly for lower)
Lightweight superstars:
Light Heavyweight Championship
Tag Team:
Tag Team Championship
Women's:
Women's Championship
I think this would make no superstar complain having so much titles (which I think is a good thing because at the end of the day almost or even every superstars would have a chance at winning something)
Have Goldberg come to WWF but not dominate too much!
and many more things that should of happened but I don't know what else to think about, but these are the things which should of happened!
Titles that should be abandoned at that time:
Cruiserweight Tag Team Championship (happened in real life)
WCW Hardcore Championship(for the eXtreme title)
WWF Hardcore Championship(maybe fun to have a 24/7 rule title but makes it look cheap and rubbish so abandon for the T.V. and eXtreme)
WCW Tag Team Championship (because we don't need to titles so just make it be unified with the WWF ones)
ECW Tag Team Championship (read WCW Tag Team Championship)
ECW T.V. Championship (unify with WCW T.V. title)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 11:18:00 GMT -5
Awesome was another guy that totally fit the WWF mold but was hardly used after an initial burst.
of course his intense heat with Heyman probably contributed here.
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Post by ratedextreme on Jun 1, 2011 14:14:17 GMT -5
Many of you guys mention the fact that Vince should have bought out their contracts..I think easier said than done.
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PenguinDeluxe
Main Eventer
20 Refs and Counting
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Post by PenguinDeluxe on Jun 1, 2011 14:18:21 GMT -5
Many of you guys mention the fact that Vince should have bought out their contracts..I think easier said than done. While normally I would agree, the fact that he brought in all these guys as soon as the Invasion was over shows he could have done it if he wanted to, but for his own purposes, he'd rather WCW look extremely weak. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 15:47:10 GMT -5
Many of you guys mention the fact that Vince should have bought out their contracts..I think easier said than done. not at all-and he didnt have to buy them all out.IMO he just needed Flair-to head WCW Goldberg Steiner all 3 were willing-they have said it many times.the $$$$ Vince made on Invasion was thru the ceiling.Imagine Invasion headlined by Austin & Rock vs Goldberg and Steiner or even DDP and Booker if they hadnt been presented as fools? also as I said earlier if $$ was a concern(which it wasnt)he could have trimmed out half the contracts he took on and had a leaner Invasion force-which would have been much more impressive with more headliners than 40 jobbers. there is a lot of folks who say it wasnt in Vinces power to buy out the contracts-this is incorrect.he had no desire too because he never intended the Invasion to look like a genuine threat.....and by Summerslam it wasnt. it was yet another vehicle for a McMahon family feud. |
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Jun 1, 2011 17:03:24 GMT -5
As soon as it was clear that no actual WCW stars were going to be a part of it, I would have scrapped it.
Without Hogan, Sting, Goldberg, Steiner, Hall and Nash.....it's clear it just wasn't going to work.
But the whole point of the InVasion was NOT to make WCW and ECW look good....it was to restate WWE's "superiority" and remind people that WWE put those companies out of business and bought their rights.
Even when Vince McMahon made ECW it's own brand 5 years later...the first thing he did was kill off all the original ECW characters and make them look stupid.
Guys like Sabu, Sandman, Justin Credible....they've had some of the most hardcore battles in the history of pro wrestling and they are jobbing clean to Matt Striker? Disgrace.
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Jun 1, 2011 17:09:53 GMT -5
Also...people talking about contracts and "Vince should have bought this guy" and "Vince should have bought that guy"....
It was up to the talent.
When WWF bought the rights to WCW, the contracts of most of the wrestlers were structured so that if they joined the WWF they would forfeit half of their money, but all of the mid-carders WWF decided to offer to come to WWF accepted because their contracts were for less money anyway and maybe they would impress WWF and be kept around.
Kevin Nash said it in a shoot interview "I can work for half or sit home and get it all? That's a pretty easy decision".
Guys like Hall, Nash, Hogan, Steiner and Goldberg....who all came to WWF after the InVasion angle.....the reason they were out of wrestling for as long as they were was because they were getting ALL of their WCW money and they knew as soon as it was up that WWF would bring them in.
It screws the fans who wanted to see them and it RUINED the InVasion angle....but as a wrestler, why should I come to WWF and make HALF of my WCW money when I could sit out for a year or 2 and make ALL of my WCW money and THEN come to WWF and have them pay me!
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Post by theimmortal on Jun 1, 2011 19:46:49 GMT -5
I would have started another company like WCW Entertainment. Hired Eric Bischoff to run it. Brought over WCW wrestlers and selected WWF talent. Gave them Smackdowns TV slot and run it as a completely different company yet under the same banner. Kinda like how UFC and WEC were.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 19:59:38 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, didn't the bigger stars wait till their contracts were up to sign?
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Post by theimmortal on Jun 1, 2011 20:02:28 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, didn't the bigger stars wait till their contracts were up to sign? Yup, Time Warner paid them to sit at home and do nothing, yet they though WCW was a waste of money. i would have canned all the guys and made the Time Warner contract guys wrestle until their contracts expired. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 1, 2011 21:42:24 GMT -5
Also...people talking about contracts and "Vince should have bought this guy" and "Vince should have bought that guy".... It was up to the talent. When WWF bought the rights to WCW, the contracts of most of the wrestlers were structured so that if they joined the WWF they would forfeit half of their money, but all of the mid-carders WWF decided to offer to come to WWF accepted because their contracts were for less money anyway and maybe they would impress WWF and be kept around. Kevin Nash said it in a shoot interview "I can work for half or sit home and get it all? That's a pretty easy decision". Guys like Hall, Nash, Hogan, Steiner and Goldberg....who all came to WWF after the InVasion angle.....the reason they were out of wrestling for as long as they were was because they were getting ALL of their WCW money and they knew as soon as it was up that WWF would bring them in. It screws the fans who wanted to see them and it RUINED the InVasion angle....but as a wrestler, why should I come to WWF and make HALF of my WCW money when I could sit out for a year or 2 and make ALL of my WCW money and THEN come to WWF and have them pay me! Vince could have bought out their contracts, and then have signed them right away to new WWF contracts. DDP, who could have sat at home like the others, wanted to be apart of this angle so bad that he opted out of his contract for less money just so that Vince would sign him. Considering how popular the WWF was at the time, and how much money they were raking in, Vince could have easily bought out Goldberg, Flair, and Steiner's contracts, and then have signed them to WWF contracts. If he had presented those three, as well as Booker T and DDP, as credible guys, there is a good chance that Sting would have signed. And even if he didn't, it would have bought enough time for him to wait to sign the nWo at the begining of 2002. Mike Awsome is a guy who I thought could have been a top star in the WWF. He was athletic as hell for his size, and was a total badass. It has always made me wonder why Vince had him make an awsome debute by winning the hardcore title, and then dropped him soon after. Considering how Rhyno was used as a mid-carder by Vince before the Invasion, Awsome should have taken his spot in the Inaugural brawl, or atleast have switched the Dudley Boyz out w/ Awsome and RVD. |
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Jun 1, 2011 22:21:32 GMT -5
Also...people talking about contracts and "Vince should have bought this guy" and "Vince should have bought that guy".... It was up to the talent. When WWF bought the rights to WCW, the contracts of most of the wrestlers were structured so that if they joined the WWF they would forfeit half of their money, but all of the mid-carders WWF decided to offer to come to WWF accepted because their contracts were for less money anyway and maybe they would impress WWF and be kept around. Kevin Nash said it in a shoot interview "I can work for half or sit home and get it all? That's a pretty easy decision". Guys like Hall, Nash, Hogan, Steiner and Goldberg....who all came to WWF after the InVasion angle.....the reason they were out of wrestling for as long as they were was because they were getting ALL of their WCW money and they knew as soon as it was up that WWF would bring them in. It screws the fans who wanted to see them and it RUINED the InVasion angle....but as a wrestler, why should I come to WWF and make HALF of my WCW money when I could sit out for a year or 2 and make ALL of my WCW money and THEN come to WWF and have them pay me! Vince could have bought out their contracts, and then have signed them right away to new WWF contracts. DDP, who could have sat at home like the others, wanted to be apart of this angle so bad that he opted out of his contract for less money just so that Vince would sign him. Considering how popular the WWF was at the time, and how much money they were raking in, Vince could have easily bought out Goldberg, Flair, and Steiner's contracts, and then have signed them to WWF contracts. If he had presented those three, as well as Booker T and DDP, as credible guys, there is a good chance that Sting would have signed. And even if he didn't, it would have bought enough time for him to wait to sign the nWo at the begining of 2002. Mike Awsome is a guy who I thought could have been a top star in the WWF. He was athletic as hell for his size, and was a total badass. It has always made me wonder why Vince had him make an awsome debute by winning the hardcore title, and then dropped him soon after. Considering how Rhyno was used as a mid-carder by Vince before the Invasion, Awsome should have taken his spot in the Inaugural brawl, or atleast have switched the Dudley Boyz out w/ Awsome and RVD. Vince wanted Sting. Vince wanted Hogan, Hall, Nash and Flair right after WCW was acquired by WWE. They wanted all of their money. There was nothing he could do. Why would they sign with WWE for 1/2 of their WCW money? Even if he immediately signed them to a WWE contract.....they wanted all of their WCW money and they got WWE contacts too. We are talking about guys who never left a penny on the table. And if they could make all of their WCW money by SITTING HOME DOING NOTHING and have huge WWE contracts waiting for them.....like Nash said, it was a no brainer. I'm sure Vince tried. I'm sure he didn't want the WCW side of the Alliance to be as lame as it was. I think that's why he brought ECW into it because the WCW side of the roster aside of DDP and Booker T was really weak. But Hogan, Flair, Nash, Goldberg and all the rest....for them, it was about the money. They wanted all of their WCW money and they got it. Look at how WCW used Mike Awesome...look at how WWE used Mike Awesome.....it's pretty clear that NOBODY except Paul Heyman knew what to do with this guy. It's a shame too. He deserved better |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 2, 2011 0:38:38 GMT -5
Sting said he was in talks w/ Vince about coming to the WWF during the Invasion, but decided not to sign because of how he burried Booker T and DDP. Sting has said that he didn't trust Vince w/ his character. For Sting, it had nothing to do w/ money. W/ Flair, he has said in interviews that he was contacted by JR almost right after the purchase of WCW and was asked if he wanted to come to the WWF. Flair said yes, but the WWF never contacted him again until the fall.
To me, it seems pretty clear that Vince wasn't going to go out of his way to sign any of the top guys from WCW. Hell, DDP had to opt out of his contract just to get Vince to talk to him becuase he wanted to be apart of the angle so bad(I bet he regrets that now). W/ the rest of the guys, Vince decided to just wait until their contracts were up to sign and burry them. Vince had all the money in the world back in 2001 w/ how popular the WWF was, and could have easily bought out the contracts of a few of the top names from WCW.
Even if he didn't want to buy out the top names and wanted to wait out their contracts, Vince could have easily postponed the WCW "Invasion" until he could sign all of them. This way he could have done this angle right. Instead, Vince decided to rush this angle, and burried the only two credible main eventers he had aquired in Booker T and DDP, and turned this into one of the worst angles ever.
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Post by ratedextreme on Jun 2, 2011 10:08:02 GMT -5
Also...people talking about contracts and "Vince should have bought this guy" and "Vince should have bought that guy".... It was up to the talent. When WWF bought the rights to WCW, the contracts of most of the wrestlers were structured so that if they joined the WWF they would forfeit half of their money, but all of the mid-carders WWF decided to offer to come to WWF accepted because their contracts were for less money anyway and maybe they would impress WWF and be kept around. Kevin Nash said it in a shoot interview "I can work for half or sit home and get it all? That's a pretty easy decision". Guys like Hall, Nash, Hogan, Steiner and Goldberg....who all came to WWF after the InVasion angle.....the reason they were out of wrestling for as long as they were was because they were getting ALL of their WCW money and they knew as soon as it was up that WWF would bring them in. It screws the fans who wanted to see them and it RUINED the InVasion angle....but as a wrestler, why should I come to WWF and make HALF of my WCW money when I could sit out for a year or 2 and make ALL of my WCW money and THEN come to WWF and have them pay me! yes thats true! I forgot about that shoot,to defend my statement. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2011 11:32:26 GMT -5
yeah Nash said that what he didnt say was that Vince was talking to them about the nWo angle which wasnt pencilled in until 2002.it was no coincidence that angle started when it did. upon reviewing who he had and didnt have he decided to sab ve the nWo for post Invasion( a great move)unfortunately backstage politicking mostly by HHH and Steph on his behalf coupled with Halls disasterous behaviour and Nashs lack of fitness  ed this up too. and again Goldberg,Flair and Steiner were all willing to work something out with Vince.they were there for the taking.he didnt want them. period. |
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