J.Freek
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Best in the World
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Post by J.Freek on Oct 30, 2011 10:52:44 GMT -5
Heres the thing not every Juggalo runs around in facepaint committing crimes, I do listen to ICP but I don't go to gatherings, paint my face, own any clothing of theirs, commit crimes, or do drugs. The only thing I own of theirs is JCW Vol. 1-3, JCW SlamTv DVDS, and the Stranglemania DVDs. I used to have most if not all of their CDs but I gave them to one of my friends when I moved. I put some songs that I really like on my Mp3 player. I listen to all types of music(Eminem included). I might not be a true Juggalo but I still enjoy their music. I know a few people who listen to their music and own cds/shirts. and whatnot and they too don't go around committing crimes or anything just like I do.
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Post by Focalin on Oct 30, 2011 16:02:18 GMT -5
Whoop whoop. Family.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2011 16:13:27 GMT -5
The only Juggalos ive known turned out to be pricks because i told them i didnt listen to there music. I wasnt mean nor was i judging (Because thats not me) And i got my ass beat down. Im not saying all of them are bad but from my experiences with them there nothing but rejected gang members searching for a way to act tough without getting beat down themselves
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2011 23:07:01 GMT -5
My tattoo artist is one and I'm cool with him. All others I have met have been scum. The image that ICP and their fans have made for themselves it pretty sickening in my eyes.
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Post by Triple S on Oct 30, 2011 23:53:58 GMT -5
Who goin' chicken huntin'? We goin' chicken huntin'...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 0:09:20 GMT -5
My tattoo artist is one and I'm cool with him. All others I have met have been scum. The image that ICP and their fans have made for themselves it pretty sickening in my eyes. what image that ICP made? You mean the messages in their music about god? And how they hope all juggalos find god? Watch their interview on Nightline from last year and you'll see that they don't support any of these acts or murder that happen by people who call themselves juggalos. They aren't juggalos, they are ed up people who shouldn't be listening to the music in the first place. Shaggy and J have both said that they don't want those people ever listening to their music again or supporting them. J and Shaggy are actually really down to earth and great people but because the mainstream plays them out to be all about the devil and bullcrap, everyone hates them. And labelling juggalos as a gang is stupid. I've met a crap ton of a juggalos and the worst thing any of them have ever done is smoke weed. But because a few bad seeds claim to be a juggalo and carry out these heinous acts, everyone says all juggalos are horrible people. Truth is, I'd trust a juggalo to have my back over anyone these days.
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Post by "The Visionary" Eldniw on Oct 31, 2011 0:24:49 GMT -5
My tattoo artist is one and I'm cool with him. All others I have met have been scum. The image that ICP and their fans have made for themselves it pretty sickening in my eyes. what image that ICP made? You mean the messages in their music about god? And how they hope all juggalos find god? Watch their interview on Nightline from last year and you'll see that they don't support any of these acts or murder that happen by people who call themselves juggalos. They aren't juggalos, they are ed up people who shouldn't be listening to the music in the first place. Shaggy and J have both said that they don't want those people ever listening to their music again or supporting them. J and Shaggy are actually really down to earth and great people but because the mainstream plays them out to be all about the devil and bullpoop, everyone hates them. And labelling juggalos as a gang is stupid. I've met a poop ton of a juggalos and the worst thing any of them have ever done is smoke weed. But because a few bad seeds claim to be a juggalo and carry out these heinous acts, everyone says all juggalos are horrible people. Truth is, I'd trust a juggalo to have my back over anyone these days. Yeah because this: ...is a message about God. Yeah about committing mass murder in the house of God, and then taking the bullsh*t coward's way out in the end. And don't even get me started on the rest of that album. Walk Into The Darkness: About committing a shooting in a public place such as a school or shopping area. Yeah, that's about finding God. Suicide Hotline: Yeah, no explanation. That's about finding God too. Hell's Pit is the only ICP album I ever owned. Do not own it anymore. Their music is so far from being about God and wanting fans to find God, it's disgusting that you would even try and draw comparisons between them and what bands like RED, Demon Hunter and Disciple do, and their music REALLY being about God.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 0:32:39 GMT -5
what image that ICP made? You mean the messages in their music about god? And how they hope all juggalos find god? Watch their interview on Nightline from last year and you'll see that they don't support any of these acts or murder that happen by people who call themselves juggalos. They aren't juggalos, they are ed up people who shouldn't be listening to the music in the first place. Shaggy and J have both said that they don't want those people ever listening to their music again or supporting them. J and Shaggy are actually really down to earth and great people but because the mainstream plays them out to be all about the devil and bullpoop, everyone hates them. And labelling juggalos as a gang is stupid. I've met a poop ton of a juggalos and the worst thing any of them have ever done is smoke weed. But because a few bad seeds claim to be a juggalo and carry out these heinous acts, everyone says all juggalos are horrible people. Truth is, I'd trust a juggalo to have my back over anyone these days. Yeah because this: ...is a message about God. Yeah about committing mass murder in the house of God, and then taking the bullsh*t coward's way out in the end. And don't even get me started on the rest of that album. Hell's Pit is the ONE ICP album I owned. And that album is the FURTHEST THING from being about finding God. Hells Pit was an album about what happens if you don't find god. You would spend the rest of your life on Hells Pit. CPK is about Crooked Preachers who molest children and take money in the name of god for their own personal reasons. If you actually did your research and wasn't just talking out of your ass you would know that Hells Pit was the second half of the look at after life. Shangri La was all about making it to heaven. Why don't you look up "Thy Unveiling" or "Crossing Thy Bridge" both have very positive messages. "Hell's Pit is the second part of the sixth Joker's Card, The Wraith, written with the opposite intent of its counterpart, Shangri-La, Hell's Pit is intended to illustrate the horrors of hell itself. Many of the songs feature Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope fictitiously dying, to be sent to Hell, depicted in the album as a place void of all hope and peace, where those who do not atone for their sins and follow the ways of Shangri-La will presumably be sent upon their death. Bruce described the album as "Horror tale after Horror tale, mixed in with songs that describe hell" and stated that it was the darkest, most painful work he had ever done."But I'm not gonna argue on a forum that is populated by mainstream know it alls about something that they know nothing about. That's like arguing on a non wrestling forum with a bunch of people who know nothing about wrestling.
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Post by "The Visionary" Eldniw on Oct 31, 2011 0:43:00 GMT -5
Yeah because this: ...is a message about God. Yeah about committing mass murder in the house of God, and then taking the bullsh*t coward's way out in the end. And don't even get me started on the rest of that album. Hell's Pit is the ONE ICP album I owned. And that album is the FURTHEST THING from being about finding God. Hells Pit was an album about what happens if you don't find god. You would spend the rest of your life on Hells Pit. CPK is about Crooked Preachers who molest children and take money in the name of god for their own personal reasons. If you actually did your research and wasn't just talking out of your ass you would know that Hells Pit was the second half of the look at after life. Shangri La was all about making it to heaven. Why don't you look up "Thy Unveiling" or "Crossing Thy Bridge" both have very positive messages. But I'm not gonna argue on a forum that is populated by mainstream know it alls about something that they know nothing about. That's like arguing on a non wrestling forum with a bunch of people who know nothing about wrestling. Let's pretend for a second that I care one bit about ICP. There are bands; the aforementioned RED, Disciple, and Demon Hunter; those are examples of bands whose music is about God, finding God, and knowing truly what the afterlife is. ICP is not, at least in my opinion. And being proud of knowing alot about ICP - that, to me, isn't really something to be proud of and to be boasting about.......I'm just saying, and that'd be my opinion on that too, which you're not gonna tell me I'm wrong on.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 0:47:47 GMT -5
Hells Pit was an album about what happens if you don't find god. You would spend the rest of your life on Hells Pit. CPK is about Crooked Preachers who molest children and take money in the name of god for their own personal reasons. If you actually did your research and wasn't just talking out of your ass you would know that Hells Pit was the second half of the look at after life. Shangri La was all about making it to heaven. Why don't you look up "Thy Unveiling" or "Crossing Thy Bridge" both have very positive messages. But I'm not gonna argue on a forum that is populated by mainstream know it alls about something that they know nothing about. That's like arguing on a non wrestling forum with a bunch of people who know nothing about wrestling. Let's pretend for a second that I care one bit about ICP. There are bands; the aforementioned RED, Disciple, and Demon Hunter; those are examples of bands whose music is about God, finding God, and knowing truly what the afterlife is. ICP is not, at least in my opinion. And being proud of knowing alot about ICP - that, to me, isn't really something to be proud of and to be boasting about.......I'm just saying, and that'd be my opinion on that too, which you're not gonna tell me I'm wrong on. I'm not boasting about knowing a lot about them at all.
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Post by King Silva on Oct 31, 2011 2:06:43 GMT -5
I don't know much about them but I know I dislike their music. I guess if the FBI thinks they can be a national threat that's pretty bad..
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Captain McKay
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WF 15+ Year Member But all out of badges so this is not one
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Post by Captain McKay on Oct 31, 2011 6:05:06 GMT -5
I've been following this thread since the beginning and I have to say that I see both sides of this debate.
My personal opinion - I don't like ICP or any of that other clown rap music. It's not for me.
That out of the way, let's review -
- On one hand, we've got a couple people in this thread claiming to know what it is to be a Juggalo, what they represent (finding God, not killing people), and how they're NOT all bad people.
- On the other hand, we've got a couple people in this thread claiming to know what it is to be a Juggalo, what they represent (Faygo, murder, and carnage), and how they ARE all bad people.
So, essentially, we have two kinds of opinions, neither of which is open-minded in the slightest. You're all passing judgment in one way, be it by saying "Juggalos are a threat, they're smelly and their music sucks" or by saying "Juggalos are good, down-to-earth people and if you aren't one, you don't understand."
Allow me to re-cap the argument above -
"ICP and their fans' image is sickening."
"ICP's lyrics are about God. Here's the proof."
"No, ICP's lyrics are about Hell and murder. Here's the proof."
"Those are lyrics about what will happen if you DON'T do the right thing. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd already know this."
"Why should I care about ICP? I'm going to talk about them on the Internet without caring a damn about them, because knowing about them is for losers."
Opinions on the music is one thing. I've given mine. But I just wanted to point out that no one in this thread is very objective. The lack of relevant argument skills here is simply staggering.
That is all.
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Oct 31, 2011 6:27:32 GMT -5
I've been following this thread since the beginning and I have to say that I see both sides of this debate. My personal opinion - I don't like ICP or any of that other clown rap music. It's not for me. That out of the way, let's review - - On one hand, we've got a couple people in this thread claiming to know what it is to be a Juggalo, what they represent (finding God, not killing people), and how they're NOT all bad people. - On the other hand, we've got a couple people in this thread claiming to know what it is to be a Juggalo, what they represent (Faygo, murder, and carnage), and how they ARE all bad people. So, essentially, we have two kinds of opinions, neither of which is open-minded in the slightest. You're all passing judgment in one way, be it by saying "Juggalos are a threat, they're smelly and their music sucks" or by saying "Juggalos are good, down-to-earth people and if you aren't one, you don't understand." Allow me to re-cap the argument above - "ICP and their fans' image is sickening." "ICP's lyrics are about God. Here's the proof." "No, ICP's lyrics are about Hell and murder. Here's the proof." "Those are lyrics about what will happen if you DON'T do the right thing. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd already know this." "Why should I care about ICP? I'm going to talk about them on the Internet without caring a damn about them, because knowing about them is for losers." Opinions on the music is one thing. I've given mine. But I just wanted to point out that no one in this thread is very objective. The lack of relevant argument skills here is simply staggering. That is all. Well then I guess you missed my posts talking about the only thing that really matters here, and that's the criminal activity. Everything else is just an identifier. The face paint, the music, the big pants. They're all identifiers. The FBI and law enforcement as a whole have seen and recorded enough criminal activity committed by this group to name them as a gang threat. You guys seem to be missing the point. They're not labeling anyone. They didn't just look at a picture of ICP and put them on the gang threat list. They have what is called intel on these sorts of things. They have research to back their decision and have likely been looking at this group for a long time. Most of this thread is arguing about the music and look when it honestly has nothing to do with it. Like I said, the only difference between a Church and a Gang is criminal activity. Sorry guys, but it takes more than "just a few bad seeds" to get the FBI's attention.
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Captain McKay
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Post by Captain McKay on Oct 31, 2011 6:39:48 GMT -5
Well then I guess you missed my posts talking about the only thing that really matters here, and that's the criminal activity. No, I didn't. I chose not to comment on it. Two reasons, mostly. A.) I'm not a criminal profiling expert, and I've taken enough criminal psychology courses to know that basically anything can get a person or group of people characterized as "suspicious" by law enforcement or government, so it's no surprise that this group of low-income people with particularly against-the-grain social practices set off some "expert" at judgment. Especially if they happened to be doing something violent at the time. and B.) I feel it serves as an illustration of the narrow viewpoints in this thread - that being, they see "Juggalo" and they either have to come here and bash or defend. However, they're not addressing the issue of "National threat," - rather, they're talking about the music and the message that a select few rappers portray. Like you said - people are missing the point entirely. Hence, my pointing out the narrow-mindedness that's been rampant throughout this thread. To play this fairly, not many people have really seemed to care that Juggalos are now under watch by the FBI. I know that I don't care. What I DO care about is faulty logic, which this thread (and many others about Juggalos) seems to breed. Coincidence? Or just strong feelings either of two ways?
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Oct 31, 2011 6:46:24 GMT -5
Well then I guess you missed my posts talking about the only thing that really matters here, and that's the criminal activity. No, I didn't. I chose not to comment on it. Two reasons, mostly. A.) I'm not a criminal profiling expert, and I've taken enough criminal psychology courses to know that basically anything can get a person or group of people characterized as "suspicious" by law enforcement or government, so it's no surprise that this group of low-income people with particularly against-the-grain social practices set off some "expert" at judgment. Especially if they happened to be doing something violent at the time. and B.) I feel it serves as an illustration of the narrow viewpoints in this thread - that being, they see "Juggalo" and they either have to come here and bash or defend. However, they're not addressing the issue of "National threat," - rather, they're talking about the music and the message that a select few rappers portray. Like you said - people are missing the point entirely. Hence, my pointing out the narrow-mindedness that's been rampant throughout this thread. To play this fairly, not many people have really seemed to care that Juggalos are now under watch by the FBI. I know that I don't care. What I DO care about is faulty logic, which this thread (and many others about Juggalos) seems to breed. Coincidence? Or just strong feelings either of two ways? Well unfortunately, I'm in a position where I have to care, for my own safety. But other than that, your points are very valid.
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Captain McKay
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Post by Captain McKay on Oct 31, 2011 6:53:38 GMT -5
Well unfortunately, I'm in a position where I have to care, for my own safety. But other than that, your points are very valid. Just re-visited your posts. Field training and corrections, eh? Guess it's best to be informed about this sort of thing, then. I do agree that, unless you're in a particularly bad area, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone in any gang (or loosely gang-affiliated, I suppose in this case) who would actually cause harm to someone. Still, I hear you - best to be on your guard, just in case. Best of luck, man.
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Post by Angel Beast on Oct 31, 2011 8:39:31 GMT -5
Two juggalos killed a US Military Vet, who served in Iraq and who was in his early 20's in my area. They lured the guy two meet, knowing the kid was gay, promising him sex and when he showed up the two brutally murdered him. So do I think juggalos are scum? Yes. Do I think all of them are scum? Nope, I've met some who are decent people, but a large majority of them are.
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Post by Wato Stan Account on Oct 31, 2011 10:52:43 GMT -5
Yeah because this: ...is a message about God. Yeah about committing mass murder in the house of God, and then taking the bullsh*t coward's way out in the end. And don't even get me started on the rest of that album. Hell's Pit is the ONE ICP album I owned. And that album is the FURTHEST THING from being about finding God. Hells Pit was an album about what happens if you don't find god. You would spend the rest of your life on Hells Pit. CPK is about Crooked Preachers who molest children and take money in the name of god for their own personal reasons. If you actually did your research and wasn't just talking out of your ass you would know that Hells Pit was the second half of the look at after life. Shangri La was all about making it to heaven. Why don't you look up "Thy Unveiling" or "Crossing Thy Bridge" both have very positive messages. "Hell's Pit is the second part of the sixth Joker's Card, The Wraith, written with the opposite intent of its counterpart, Shangri-La, Hell's Pit is intended to illustrate the horrors of hell itself. Many of the songs feature Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope fictitiously dying, to be sent to Hell, depicted in the album as a place void of all hope and peace, where those who do not atone for their sins and follow the ways of Shangri-La will presumably be sent upon their death. Bruce described the album as "Horror tale after Horror tale, mixed in with songs that describe hell" and stated that it was the darkest, most painful work he had ever done."But I'm not gonna argue on a forum that is populated by mainstream know it alls about something that they know nothing about. That's like arguing on a non wrestling forum with a bunch of people who know nothing about wrestling. You are aware they started the whole "it's about God" thing as a way of hoping fans would stop killing and as a way to lead media to think they aren't that bad right? ICP are more about marketing and selling themselves than they really even care about their fans. Having worked for them on several occasions, their bottom line is money. Whatever they can do to keep making money they do it now. It's not about being "underground", it's about selling "underground". The minute ICP started buying ad space on MTV and Fuse to sell "being underground", was the first hint they weren't anymore. They made being non mainstream a commodity and sell it better than almost anyone. I don't argue that all of their fans are bad. I've met many, I know a few personally; great people. Unfortunately ICP makes music that despite what they can say to try and end any violence their fans commit, some are just stupid. But it's happened with other band, hell a serial killer was named after and AC/DC song. The problem ICP has is how they've made their following like a cult. Referring to it as "the Family", having all your fans do it, and having them put some sort of personal stock in this idea is very strange. They're a band selling being a part of a "family", that's actually a huge cult quality. Yes, Violent J and Shaggy are nice guys. They mean really well, but their fans on average may be some of the dumbest people on the planet. Which is what lead to how they are treated now. If every Juggalo went to Harvard or hell even graduated high school, the view on them may be totally different. I suggest everyone watch American Juggalo. You can argue all you want that not all their fans are that stupid, a good majority just happen to be.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2011 11:51:23 GMT -5
Hells Pit was an album about what happens if you don't find god. You would spend the rest of your life on Hells Pit. CPK is about Crooked Preachers who molest children and take money in the name of god for their own personal reasons. If you actually did your research and wasn't just talking out of your ass you would know that Hells Pit was the second half of the look at after life. Shangri La was all about making it to heaven. Why don't you look up "Thy Unveiling" or "Crossing Thy Bridge" both have very positive messages. "Hell's Pit is the second part of the sixth Joker's Card, The Wraith, written with the opposite intent of its counterpart, Shangri-La, Hell's Pit is intended to illustrate the horrors of hell itself. Many of the songs feature Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope fictitiously dying, to be sent to Hell, depicted in the album as a place void of all hope and peace, where those who do not atone for their sins and follow the ways of Shangri-La will presumably be sent upon their death. Bruce described the album as "Horror tale after Horror tale, mixed in with songs that describe hell" and stated that it was the darkest, most painful work he had ever done."But I'm not gonna argue on a forum that is populated by mainstream know it alls about something that they know nothing about. That's like arguing on a non wrestling forum with a bunch of people who know nothing about wrestling. You are aware they started the whole "it's about God" thing as a way of hoping fans would stop killing and as a way to lead media to think they aren't that bad right? ICP are more about marketing and selling themselves than they really even care about their fans. Having worked for them on several occasions, their bottom line is money. Whatever they can do to keep making money they do it now. It's not about being "underground", it's about selling "underground". The minute ICP started buying ad space on MTV and Fuse to sell "being underground", was the first hint they weren't anymore. They made being non mainstream a commodity and sell it better than almost anyone. I don't argue that all of their fans are bad. I've met many, I know a few personally; great people. Unfortunately ICP makes music that despite what they can say to try and end any violence their fans commit, some are just stupid. But it's happened with other band, hell a serial killer was named after and AC/DC song. The problem ICP has is how they've made their following like a cult. Referring to it as "the Family", having all your fans do it, and having them put some sort of personal stock in this idea is very strange. They're a band selling being a part of a "family", that's actually a huge cult quality. Yes, Violent J and Shaggy are nice guys. They mean really well, but their fans on average may be some of the dumbest people on the planet. Which is what lead to how they are treated now. If every Juggalo went to Harvard or hell even graduated high school, the view on them may be totally different. I suggest everyone watch American Juggalo. You can argue all you want that not all their fans are that stupid, a good majority just happen to be. Maybe its my town, I'm not sure. I know everyone that calls themselves a juggalo that I've ever met have graduated highschool and some even college. But I get where you're coming from, some take the music too far when all it is, is entertainment. Some just can't see the line between entertainment and reality, those are the people doing these acts of violence and murder and calling themselves juggalos.
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Post by aggressiveperfectpoor on Oct 31, 2011 14:05:14 GMT -5
Meh, Juggalo's aren't dangerous. There just kids and teens expressing themselves (not to sound cliche). Their about as dangerous as a baby chipmunk. I'm not a big fan of theirs, I do own a few albums of theirs and don't hate them. Then again MOST juggalos don't go around in face paint in my experience with them. I mean do I cringe when I see a guy covered in dark carnival tats... maybe (but then again, I'm a "metalhead" and get plenty of odd looks when I go to the supermarket with a band shirt on), but it's his/her right and his form of expression. Also, that article seemed like satire and a big joke. It all comes down to this...if you were walking down the street and saw some "juggalos" walking on the same side, would you actually cross the street or keep going, and if they gave you crap just give em a swift kick to the ass and tell em to move the on?
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