figurehunting101
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Joined on: Jan 28, 2012 15:58:08 GMT -5
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Post by figurehunting101 on Feb 1, 2012 15:49:49 GMT -5
couple problems, in my opinion...
A) Calling the series Legends Series. To me this implies 80's , 70's, and Hall of Famers only. When retailers look at this they would probably think the same thing and go why would a kid want to buy a wrestler they never even heard or seen wrestle. Honestly I like what they called the "legends" in the elite series...Flashbacks. They should of called the Legends Series, Flashbacks! Then you could essentially do all types of wrestlers from any time period. Along with current wrestlers in past attires for example Undertaker, Shawn, HHH, Goldust, yadda yadda yadda......
B) Lets face it, this needs to be marketed to kids as well. Yes its for adult collectors but if they want it to be successful then kids are going to have to buy it to. So bigger names is more iconic and recognizable attires. I never collected Classic Superstars by Jakks. I wanted to by the time they hit series 8 but felt I was to far behind to start, not to mention I was a teenager and couldn't buy that much stuff. So when Legends came out I was excited cause I could start fresh and not be behind. Then I went to the store and see Sgt. Slaughter in a white tank top, uhhhhhhh no thanks. Stone Cold ok yeah that ones right lemme grab that. Sweet cant wait to have legion of doom in the iconic red... wait they used black ummmm why? Eventually I became OCD with legends and elites and I now own them all even the variants and package errors, but when I started I thought why would I want some of these legends in these crapty attires. I think once they hit Series 5 they were starting to make better line ups with better attires but by then they were already in the hole and rumors were circulating that the line was on its way out the door.
C) Distribution and case assortment and marketing. When Series 3 came out we were all excited we were getting a Legends Rock. We all go to the store and then realize that mother trucker is hard as hell to find. 1 per case for the most wanted figure, and they know for a fact it was the most wanted of the set! Makes no sense! They simply could of distributed it better, to start legends was in stores in little amounts then by legends 3 the stores were flooded with legends. They never seemed to find that right medium. Then last but not least, a nice commercial during raw would of been great. Yes it cost money but if you want it to succeed then I go by the old saying...You gotta spend some to make some!
All in all to me it looks like they were trying to piggy back off the success of Classic Superstars while trying to look like they weren't piggy backing by doing things nobody wanted. I guess they figured Classic Superstars were a success so we will just continue it with things they didn't do. Doesn't work like that!
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demolitionrulz
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No place to hide, the devils they'll get you
Joined on: Feb 15, 2011 1:44:09 GMT -5
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Post by demolitionrulz on Feb 1, 2012 15:58:28 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with figure hunting. If Mattel wanted this line to succeed, why not make more of the more popular figure in the series? Make more Stone Colds, Rocks, Eddie Guerreros and Randy Savages, and short case the Kamalas, Iron Sheiks and British Bulldogs. That way both younger people who recognize the newer "legends" can buy the figures as well as us collectors.
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Post by Scotty on Feb 1, 2012 16:15:21 GMT -5
The reason the line failed was because of their terrible choices, I didnt buy slaughter for his outfit nor terry funk. if Funk was in his Funk You outfit and Slaughter was in camo I would have. Also the choices were terrible, I dont need a Akeem or Von Eric figures. I wanted my elite Dibiase, Piper, Bret Hart, HBK, Andre, Flair
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Post by The Madness on Feb 1, 2012 16:15:58 GMT -5
The reasons the Legends line flopped are pretty evident:
1) The HOF series. It created a massive overstock of the less desirable figures from the first two series. Snuka and Funk, especially.
2) Series 2 had few strong names and was waaay too heavily distributed.
3) Not a very good balance of eras. Either mix it up even more or focus on one or two specific eras/promotions. Who did the NWA Road Warriors go with? That era of Slaughter looks out of place no matter where you put him, etc.
4) Jakks just finished releasing the definitive "legends" set, and folks were hesitant to start their collections over. Series 1 and 2 didn't do anything to help persuade them.
5) Obscure attire choices on figures that should have been complete no-brainers. Make the first Slaughter and Snuka the ones people want to buy, save the weird versions for when you need them later.
6) The tag team sets - high price points, poor choices in the Piper/Orton and Volkoff/Sheik sets, and like series 2, extremely high distribution. TRU is never going to get rid of them until they drop them under $10.
7) Series 3 through 6 were tough to find. I think this was due to series 2 still clogging the shelves and a lack of orders because of that.
~~~~~~~~
Now, as far as what I would have done differently, it shouldn't be too hard for any collector to come up with. Here is how I would have done it, with no figures different than what Mattel has already released or has announced. I get that some wrestlers didn't come under contract until later, but this is kind of an "ideal situation" scenario while taking that into consideration as much as possible:
1) A strong list of names in the first series. Jakks nailed this, even though their quality wasn't as good as Mattel. I get that they couldn't use current wrestlers like Undertaker or Kane. Here is how I would have done the first series, with five figures using the wrestlers they likely had signed and available at the time, meaning no Bret, Savage, or Warrior.
Stone Cold Steve Austin Sgt. Slaughter (camo) Jake the Snake Roberts (All-Stars version, save the cobra for later) Roddy Piper (t-shirt and kilt) Andre the Giant
Andre wasn't in the first two sets, but I'm sure they could have done him, since WWF/WWE has been merchandising Andre like crazy for the last 25 years. To me, that's a line up where every figure is essential and shows that this line means business.
2) Pack the cases right. Of that lineup I just posted, Austin is probably going to sell more figures than anyone. Don't put him one per case. If you have a figure that you think is going to sell less, shortpack that one to keep up collector interest and avoid warming the pegs.
3) A good mix of eras. Personally, I'm a fan of WWF and WCW circa 1989-1993, but I'd be hesitant to buy, say, a Mr. Perfect figure if every other figure in the line was from the Attitude era with no indication of forthcoming variety. Once the line has been off to a strong start with some of the heavy hitters establishing it, start to break it up some. Series 2 or 3 of the line could go something like this:
Attitude era - The Rock '80s/Rock n' Wrestling - Million Dollar Man '90s/New Generation - Bret Hart (Mattel said he was a "negotiator," but try to get him in early) Territories - Kerry Von Erich, Kevin too, if necessary. Take advantage of the gaping holes in the CS line while it's still a market factor. WCW - Vader (with helmet and staff)
Then just keep it rolling. These are all hypothetical and not set in stone, but you can see how I'm doing this...
Attitude era - Shawn Michaels, red tights (if they could release him as a Rocker, why not HBK?) '80s/Rock n' Wrestling - Randy Savage '90s/New Generation - Ultimate Warrior Territories - Magnum TA WCW - DDP
Attitude era - Goldust '80s/Rock n' Wrestling - Big Bossman '90s/New Generation - Yokozuna Territories - Dusty Rhodes with two variants - polka dot and NWA WCW - Arn Anderson, shortpacked if necessary.
4) Tag team sets, with in-demand wrestlers and a price point that seems like a deal - $25, like the All-Stars sets. The first wave would go like this, and there's no reason they wouldn't fly off the shelves:
Legion of Doom (in red, possible black NWA variant or exclusive) The Rockers Demolition
5) Advertising on WWE programming. I didn't see the Legends series mentioned on-air once. Don't you think it would have helped the sales of Matty Collector's Andre if they would have at least mentioned on the Royal Rumble that it went on sale the next day, and if it was still available, mentioned it on Raw, too?
I'm sure that there are a lot of reasons to why what I suggested couldn't have been done, but I'll still swear by the fact that Jakks CS series is what made the line a tough sell and poor attire/lineup choices are what killed it.
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Post by gelatinoustapeworm on Feb 1, 2012 16:34:20 GMT -5
They should have been more exclusive. All four major retailers should not have been allowed to order the same series. It created a glut of series 1-3. I wouldn't have sold any to Target. I don't think wrestling is their, ahem, Target audience. Limit the production run. There were some Jakks figures I saw only a handful of times. Ron Bass(?), Berzerker one time each. Jerry Briscoe, Warrior/Hogan pack never. How could Legends be a "collector's line" when their was no fear in not finding a figure. This!!! I still think the main reason for the failure of this line, other than the terrible condition of the economy, was overproduction. If this line was truly aimed at collectors, then why make so many? There is absolutely no excuse for the fact that my local TRU is still getting cases of the two packs over a year after they were first released. Did they really expect to sell thousands and thousands of Nikolai Volkoff, Bob Orton, and Bushwacker figures?
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#SHOWOFF
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Post by #SHOWOFF on Feb 1, 2012 16:36:04 GMT -5
I would have waited before starting the legends line. Not only to build the number of collectors (very often we get a post on here about people getting their first Mattel) but to build my roster. Have a larger amount of big name superstars to release in the first few series. Bret should've been in series 1. Get people hooked on completing all the series before using the lesser known legends, and by that I mean stars of the 70s.
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Post by qdogg on Feb 1, 2012 16:40:30 GMT -5
couple problems, in my opinion... A) Calling the series Legends Series. To me this implies 80's , 70's, and Hall of Famers only. When retailers look at this they would probably think the same thing and go why would a kid want to buy a wrestler they never even heard or seen wrestle. Honestly I like what they called the "legends" in the elite series...Flashbacks. They should of called the Legends Series, Flashbacks! Then you could essentially do all types of wrestlers from any time period. Along with current wrestlers in past attires for example Undertaker, Shawn, HHH, Goldust, yadda yadda yadda...... B) Lets face it, this needs to be marketed to kids as well. Yes its for adult collectors but if they want it to be successful then kids are going to have to buy it to. So bigger names is more iconic and recognizable attires. I never collected Classic Superstars by Jakks. I wanted to by the time they hit series 8 but felt I was to far behind to start, not to mention I was a teenager and couldn't buy that much stuff. So when Legends came out I was excited cause I could start fresh and not be behind. Then I went to the store and see Sgt. Slaughter in a white tank top, uhhhhhhh no thanks. Stone Cold ok yeah that ones right lemme grab that. Sweet cant wait to have legion of doom in the iconic red... wait they used black ummmm why? Eventually I became OCD with legends and elites and I now own them all even the variants and package errors, but when I started I thought why would I want some of these legends in these poopty attires. I think once they hit Series 5 they were starting to make better line ups with better attires but by then they were already in the hole and rumors were circulating that the line was on its way out the door. C) Distribution and case assortment and marketing. When Series 3 came out we were all excited we were getting a Legends Rock. We all go to the store and then realize that mother trucker is hard as hell to find. 1 per case for the most wanted figure, and they know for a fact it was the most wanted of the set! Makes no sense! They simply could of distributed it better, to start legends was in stores in little amounts then by legends 3 the stores were flooded with legends. They never seemed to find that right medium. Then last but not least, a nice commercial during raw would of been great. Yes it cost money but if you want it to succeed then I go by the old saying...You gotta spend some to make some! All in all to me it looks like they were trying to piggy back off the success of Classic Superstars while trying to look like they weren't piggy backing by doing things nobody wanted. I guess they figured Classic Superstars were a success so we will just continue it with things they didn't do. Doesn't work like that! I bought a case of series 3 that had 2 rocks, 2 bulldogs, a perfect and duggan (no vader or pillman in case) so cases of Mattel figures can vary sometimes there is more of popular ones in there.
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Post by wwefan22 on Feb 1, 2012 17:08:29 GMT -5
Hold on. Don't blame me. I didn't start collecting Legends until May. I will continue to buy legends if I see them. I did my part. It's not like I had no interest. I just got into it late. I started a year ago as of next month and i have almost every legend figure made except for like 5 of them atm. So if you bought 5 in a span of 10 months, that means you bought 1 legend every other month. Not trying to be a dick either just saying that is not supporting a line. I mean it is, but you could have bought maybe 2 a month at least and had 20 figs in your collection and supported Mattel's legends line by that much. I also read your posts where you said you were NOT going to support the legends line by purchasing from matty online, as you don't buy from the internet. I could understand that, but you cant be mad the legends line is failing when your not trying at all to help keep it running ya know. I'm just saying that i started collecting last march for my birthday and in almost a year, i now have ay least 75 Mattel figs, 2 Basic Ring playsets, an ESR, Custom ring skirts and ropes, plus outfits i bought from Ralph's. If you love something and want to support it, you will.
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Post by towerofpower on Feb 1, 2012 17:30:20 GMT -5
Hold on. Don't blame me. I didn't start collecting Legends until May. I will continue to buy legends if I see them. I did my part. It's not like I had no interest. I just got into it late. I started a year ago as of next month and i have almost every legend figure made except for like 5 of them atm. So if you bought 5 in a span of 10 months, that means you bought 1 legend every other month. Not trying to be a dick either just saying that is not supporting a line. I mean it is, but you could have bought maybe 2 a month at least and had 20 figs in your collection and supported Mattel's legends line by that much. I also read your posts where you said you were NOT going to support the legends line by purchasing from matty online, as you don't buy from the internet. I could understand that, but you cant be mad the legends line is failing when your not trying at all to help keep it running ya know. I'm just saying that i started collecting last march for my birthday and in almost a year, i now have ay least 75 Mattel figs, 2 Basic Ring playsets, an ESR, Custom ring skirts and ropes, plus outfits i bought from Ralph's. If you love something and want to support it, you will. Let us set something straight: #1 I think if I am buying them, I am supporting it. I don't want to overload with stuff I don't have a desire for. Only those that mean something to me. Now, if The Rockers, Andre, Tully, Arn and Bundy all hit retail stores, would I buy them? Absolutely. However, I still will only buy things that mean something to me. #2 It is not that I don't want to support, I just tend not to buy online and don't have much experience in doing so. #3 Absolutely I want to support something. There are figures I wanted but passed on or couldn't find. I wanted an L3 Vader however I passed up on it twice in favor of L3 Perfect and L5 Savage. I considered buying Rick Rude a couple of months ago however I went with Entrance Greats DiBiase instead. #4 You can't say I am not trying at all. Maybe I should be trying harder but Mattel has gotten my money before and if I see legends I am interested in that are still on the shelves, I will give them my money again. It is that simple. Even if I bought every single Legends figure/two pack they had, I am only one person. I mean I am sorry but I had no incentive to buy somebody like Kevin Von Erich just to buy Kevin Von Erich. Now though, if I see somebody like Akeem, I have an incentive to buy him if I come across one since they are releasing Elite Flashback Bossman. So now if I get both I can have the Twin Towers. It also didn't help that they were making two Kerry Von Erich figures. Like I said, with due respect to him, one is enough. He is no Ultimate Warrior. I had counted nine figures and possibly a tenth I don't have that I have possible interest in. I had craved and still do, in the worst way, crave L6 Warrior and L6 Eddie Guerrero. If I can't find them, I can't find them. Sadly, my area is not like everybody else's where I find every single figure just like that.
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JKLMD2002
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Post by JKLMD2002 on Feb 1, 2012 17:49:54 GMT -5
For posting sake, I'll play along, but I bought every legend so I clearly didn't have a problem with what Mattel did.
I'd have branded the line anything for access to allow old-school looks for current stars like they're doing now with Flashbacks. Made the tag team series more demanded teams like Road Warriors, The Rockers, Demolition, Edge and Christian or at least hit different eras instead of focusing exclusively on 80s teams that weren't really legendary when people think of tag teams.
When they started the DC Classics, Mattel had a great strategy of releasing an anchor hero, one of their main villains, one of their allies/sidekicks and then an off the wall choice and a B-level character.
Character patterns are pretty major factors for kids and collectors I think so I'd have:
Series 1 Stone Cold [anchor] Vince/Kane/Undertaker/HHH [major opponent] Pillman [lower-level Austin opponent] Ricky Steamboat [B-level superstar] Edge (E&C era) [B-level superstar] Kamala [off the wall choice]
Then for Series 2: The Rock [anchor] HHH/Chris Jericho/Big Show [main foe/rival] Mark Henry (Nation of Domination) [supporting character] Rikishi [B-level star] Ravishing Rick Rude [B-level star with long hair to connect with...] Jake the Snake [B-level but in attire to fight Rude]
And so on. I bought every legend Mattel has made so far and will continue through whatever means necessary via Mattycollector.com, Flashbacks or RSC. They're definitely the best legends we've gotten and I hope we get them in some form for many years to come.
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Rob7274
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Post by Rob7274 on Feb 1, 2012 17:58:44 GMT -5
It's only because of Mattels quality that we still have a very limited Legends/Flashbacks. Like Cammi Oh said Jakks flooded the market.
They could have handled it better though.
Alougth I do like polka dot Dusty and Cowboy Funk
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morenomark
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Post by morenomark on Feb 1, 2012 18:17:18 GMT -5
1. Mattel should have waited at least a year after they took the license before they started the Legends line. Jakks Classic figures were still plentiful when Mattel's first Legends were released. After 28 series, Jakks had pretty much burned out the market. Mattel needed to wait for the "scorched earth" to heal before they released the Legends line.
2. Mattel should have made the Legends line in Basic format, with accessories. Jakks Classic Deluxe figures warmed the shelves. (To this day I can go to local TRU's and find a few.) Price point was too high for Jakks and was too high for Mattel.
3. The economy was in the toilet at the time the first few sets of Legends were released. Many people simply did not have the money to spend. Mattel should have waited until the economy recovered before flooding the market with another line.
4. Mattel should have run their own huge poll of who people wanted before they started the Legends line. If nothing else, it would have streamlined topics like this.
Note to all of you who feel compelled to list your "dream" lineup that would have "saved" the line: After the third or fourth list, people stop reading them and skip ahead to the next reply in the discussion. Any point you are trying to make is just lost in the shuffle. (Also, no celebrity wants to follow you on Twitter.)
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ero
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Post by ero on Feb 1, 2012 18:24:03 GMT -5
I'm not the biggest wrestling fan, and I only got into the line during the Target clearance, but what I think did it was the glut of the first two series and retailer's reluctance to put them on sale. I saw quite a few Matty fans (MOTUC, DCUC) get on board with the line once they tried it out on clearance. I was barely aware of it before that. I know I bought more than I would have at full price when I first picked up the clearance guys, and then I went on to pay full price for Steele, Orndorff, HBJ, Savage, etc.
I think selection had very little to do with it, although even Mattel's designers have admitted to overthinking guys like Snuka, who should have been in his bare feet.
Also, I've gathered this is sacrilege, but the soft goods don't hold much appeal outside of the core fanbase. I've come around now that I have a few of the figures, and I understand the practical value of wrestling toys having removable clothing, but even still, Ted DiBiase's tux just looks too doll like for the mass market.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 18:30:43 GMT -5
The fact that this is where we are now with the Legend series is really a huge bummer. That's all I have to say.
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Post by PJ on Feb 1, 2012 18:34:43 GMT -5
I'd say Stone Cold is a legitimate Legend and with the exceptions of CS1 Taker, CS1 Andre, CS3 Taker, CS6 Doink, CS9 Godfather & CS13 Droz I purchased every CS figure from Series 1-13, but after that I was much more picky as it got more watered down with guys I didn't enjoy watching. And I did purchase every Mattel Legends figure released. Your right about stone cold. But I would rather have magnum before scsa I'd have wanted Magnum by now as well. He was one of the five I voted for on the Matty Collector Poll. Here were my rankings of the list of sixteen - Muraco Magnum Windham barefooted Snuka Santana Arn Tully Bundy Liz Crush The rest (DDP/Vega/Doink/Farooq) I really didn't care about
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hitman1072
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Post by hitman1072 on Feb 1, 2012 18:39:36 GMT -5
The main reason the Legends line failed is the terrible economy which led to many collectors cutting back on spending. That's it. In a good to great economy...this line would have done at least well enough to keep going. I'm honestly not sure what kind of a wrestling fan you are if you didn't like the Legends Mattel gave us. My guess is you're not much of one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 18:46:39 GMT -5
WWE stopped them from using current wrestlers in the Legends series. So Michaels (at the time), Undertaker, Kane, Cena, HHH were not allowed. Main changes I'd have made: Launch with recognisable names that fans actually know of and are interested in. Don't launch the line until you've got the right wrestlers signed. Same for tag teams. Make the figures in their iconic looks, don't give them obscure ones just to placate the handful of Jakks fanboys who want that. Make the cases heavy with the popular names -- series 1 shouldn't have had the same number of Stone Colds as it did Slaughters. Mattel eventually learned this lesson, but by then, stores were heaving with the non-sellers. Every series should've had one or two heavy hitters in the assortment, and there should have been more of them than the less appealing names. With hindsight, if I could go back and "fantasy book" the first 3 series' with wrestlers that were signed by series 6: Series 1STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN with entrance vest and Smokin' Skull belt ANDRE THE GIANT with Classic WWE title MR PERFECT with towel RICKY "THE DRAGON" STEAMBOAT with robe and dragon JAKE "THE SNAKE" ROBERTS with snake and bag ROWDY RODDY PIPER with t-shirt and kilt Series 2THE ROCK with t-shirt and shades ULTIMATE WARRIOR (WM6) with yellow-backed classic WWE title BRITISH BULLDOG (same as Legends 3) with entrance vest SUPERFLY JIMMY SNUKA (iconic attire) with headband and t-shirt/robe KAMALA with mask and shield HACKSAW JIM DUGGAN with flag and 2 x 4 Series 3MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE with t-shirt, shades and bandana EDDIE GUERRERO with Undisputed WWE title TED DIBIASE with suit and Million Dollar title SGT SLAUGHTER (Iraq) with equivalent accessories to the L1 figure VADER with entrance headgear DUSTY RHODES with headband and vest Two-Packs Series 1THE ROCK vs STONE COLD with Attitude Era WWE title LEGION OF DOOM with red shoulder pads BUSHWHACKERS with caps Two-Packs Series 2THE ROCKERS with t-shirts DEMOLITION with entrance gear MR PERFECT vs TEXAS TORNADO with Classic Intercontinental title KOOL IDEA !
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Post by wwefan22 on Feb 1, 2012 18:53:15 GMT -5
Hey im the same way. If there is someone I don't want i won't buy them, but there has been 6 series of legends made, 5 series of DM's, 1 series of 2 packs, Entrance greats, and now how many flashbacks and matty releases so far. There is a ton out there atm to buy up to support the line. I only buy guys who i remember and look decent and so on and i have a shelf with at least over 30 Legends on it in the last year just because i wanted to support a line that i read was dying, and i wanted it to continue. Andre, and the rest of the matty legends will never hit retail, beacuse there online exclusives now do to sales being so poor so your going to have to order from them if you want them at a good price ya know. My stores do not get much in either. I bought my entire Mattel collection online between using 3 sites. There was never a figure I have not been able to get thanks to these 3 sites and all it takes is a pre paid debit card or credit card and couple minutes to check out.
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Post by LA Times on Feb 1, 2012 19:45:06 GMT -5
I wouldve redone Wave 2 and Tag Teams 1 because those 2 series killed the line IMO.
Wave 2: Wrestlemania VI Ultimate Warrior Jake "The Snake" Roberts Ravishing Rick Rude Rowdy Roddy Piper Kerry Von Erich Texas Tornado Cowboy Bob Orton (1 per case)
Tag Teams 1: The Rockers Demolition Strike Force
Iron Sheik, Nikolai Volkoff, Terry Funk, Kamala and Superfly could be inserted into future waves without them all shelfwarming simultaneously
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