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Post by Triple S on Feb 25, 2013 16:53:34 GMT -5
I was gonna post this in the Classics sub-board, but the majority of this topic/question deals with the current roster and product.
How did the WWE successfully promote and feature each talent on the ONE show during the beginning of the Attitude Era? They had a successful main event scene, mid-card division, tag team division and at a time a light-heavyweight division. Each division was given enough time to build feuds for each title AS WELL as sub-feuds within each division. At the same time, programs didn't get stale easily and seemed to work out really well.
Over the past few-several years, it seems to be something that the WWE hasn't been able to get working right. Guys are either in the title feuds or working Superstars/NXT. Feels the champions face one challenger at at time and if you aren't challenging for a title, you arent featured on either show... until it's "your turn". Takes away credibilty of each talent and forces thrown together feuds that don't make sense, other than good guy A takes on bad guy A. What are your thoughts on why this is? Is it that times have changed, the roster is too large, the talent isn't there (we all know that's not the case), writers have gotten lazy, writers aren't as knowledgeable of the wrestling business, etc.? Very curious to hear what you guys think. Discuss away! Haha
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tripleh23
Superstar
Joined on: Aug 9, 2006 14:57:03 GMT -5
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Post by tripleh23 on Feb 25, 2013 17:04:08 GMT -5
I remember about a year ago I read a Matt Hardy interview and he said that the main event scene was so hot with Rock and Austin that more time could be spent creatively on the undercard. But today they have to work harder to try and keep interest in John Cena and such that creative doesn't get to spent as much time on the undercard. I think there could be some truth to that.
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Post by wabarrett on Feb 25, 2013 17:04:49 GMT -5
I don't wanna be that guy, but it's basically because the writers are either A) lazy B) morons or C) lazy morons.
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Post by el torro on Feb 25, 2013 17:12:02 GMT -5
Because the writers now are not creative and suck.
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Post by MacReady on Feb 25, 2013 17:15:46 GMT -5
There's a few factors I'd cite, one of which being a complacent fan base; who has no desire to see WWE go above and beyond with any of their characters.
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Post by Triple S on Feb 25, 2013 17:20:24 GMT -5
It doesn't take creativeness. They could just follow the blueprint of the Attitude Era, just without the angles and edginess.
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mrassbillygunn
Main Eventer
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Joined on: Jul 23, 2011 19:35:48 GMT -5
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Feb 25, 2013 17:22:54 GMT -5
I was gonna post this in the Classics sub-board, but the majority of this topic/question deals with the current roster and product. How did the WWE successfully promote and feature each talent on the ONE show during the beginning of the Attitude Era? They had a successful main event scene, mid-card division, tag team division and at a time a light-heavyweight division. Each division was given enough time to build feuds for each title AS WELL as sub-feuds within each division. At the same time, programs didn't get stale easily and seemed to work out really well. Over the past few-several years, it seems to be something that the WWE hasn't been able to get working right. Guys are either in the title feuds or working Superstars/NXT. Feels the champions face one challenger at at time and if you aren't challenging for a title, you arent featured on either show... until it's "your turn". Takes away credibilty of each talent and forces thrown together feuds that don't make sense, other than good guy A takes on bad guy A. What are your thoughts on why this is? Is it that times have changed, the roster is too large, the talent isn't there (we all know that's not the case), writers have gotten lazy, writers aren't as knowledgeable of the wrestling business, etc.? Very curious to hear what you guys think. Discuss away! Haha I disagree with each division being given time to build feuds while there was only the one show. Wasnt Heat around before smackdown? I dont think there was ever only one show like Raw, there was always Metal, Jakked or something for highlights and low key matches. The roster is pretty big nowadays but the talent isnt there in abundance like you think. Most of them guys are hopless because the matches are rehearsed, the wrestlers are told what to do and when to perform the moves prior to the match, rather than call it in the ring which allows for a much more fluent match. Writers arent a bad thing, i certainly dont think they are lazy because Vince or Steph wouldnt stand for lazy writers and they would soon begiven their marching orders. If you're a bit inept and cant come up with your own stuff then yea a writer might help but ive always believed that no one knows you better than you, so all your character development should come from you and you only. There are also too many people on the writing staff/creative. Apparently back in the day you had a small group that came up with ideas, filtered them through Vince and he gave the go ahead, now it seems they have a entire room filled with writers etc all picking each others brains. You gotta change with the times, back in the attitude era or the 80s, there still wasnt the vast amount of tv shows that WWE now are in competition with...now they are competing with the Walking dead, True Blood and all that stuff that has society hooked.
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Post by Rule 30 on Feb 25, 2013 17:27:12 GMT -5
Because they used every single minute of air time to do something with somebody, instead of filling it with useless filler garbage.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Feb 25, 2013 17:27:22 GMT -5
I think that people need to remember that the Attitude Era is the exception, not the rule. WWE is probably in its natural place with Raw getting 3.0-4.0 ratings. A lot of things came together for the AE to work, and its unlikely that that level of wrestling success will be seen again.
I think that, because the edgy product hadn't really been done before to a mainstream audiance, it was a lot easier to come up with new and interesting things to do. Now its harder because a lot of fans saw PG/family-friendly entertainment in their lifetimes before so its harder to do new stuff without the audience getting bored of repetition.
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Post by Triple S on Feb 25, 2013 17:27:59 GMT -5
Umm... what? How is the WWE competing against The Walking Dead?
WWE's focal points are Mondays and Fridays... not Sundays.
Independent promotions have shown you don't need edginess to create an intriguing program or storyline. So did the WWE during the early 90's.
I think the blame would go to time. Instead of using the talent they have, they fill it with useless garbage and fillers.
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Post by BigShab421 on Feb 25, 2013 17:35:33 GMT -5
Because they used every single minute of air time to do something with somebody, instead of filling it with useless filler garbage. Exactly. When someone cut a promo, it built towards a fued, not to promote hashtags on twitter, or make videos for tout. Announcers talked about the fued and the match going on in the ring, not taking away from it. Wrestlers themselves wanted to push the limits because of the competition at WCW. And finally, Vince wanted to win and I am assuming that the writing team was under immense pressure to come up with fresh stories and the bookers choose what made sense. End of Rant..... And it's my 5,000 post, only took eleven years lol.
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Post by Irish Wrestling Entertainment on Feb 25, 2013 17:37:41 GMT -5
There's a few factors I'd cite, one of which being a complacent fan base; who has no desire to see WWE go above and beyond with any of their characters. Not a bad point. The IWC have this weird desire to get the moral advantage over people who want a better product and talk about how the current product could improve. It's counter productive as all of us here who can see that the WWE product needs to improve on certain aspects should be rallying for this to happen across the Internet as that will increase the enjoyment of all parties. This is far from the main factor though. Which is a poor creative team and/or creative mismanagement. The fact that they hired a bunch of writers from Maury as well as Freddie Prinze Jnr should be enough to highlight this. WWE cares more about external affairs than internal affairs. A sad era we live in. Because they used every single minute of air time to do something with somebody, instead of filling it with useless filler garbage. This is the simplest and most effective answer this question can receive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 17:39:54 GMT -5
I remember about a year ago I read a Matt Hardy interview and he said that the main event scene was so hot with Rock and Austin that more time could be spent creatively on the undercard. But today they have to work harder to try and keep interest in John Cena and such that creative doesn't get to spent as much time on the undercard. I think there could be some truth to that. Isn't that a eye opener then for the WWE that maybe John Cena isn't 'THE' guy anymore, and probably never really was for the most part. He was just rammed down our throats weekly on TV and on PPVs.
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Post by King Richius on Feb 25, 2013 18:27:42 GMT -5
Umm... what? How is the WWE competing against The Walking Dead? WWE's focal points are Mondays and Fridays... not Sundays. WWE PPVs are on Sundays. Walking Dead is on Sundays. The WWE TV shows are supposed to build up the interest and desire to buy the PPVs. I have passed on several WWE PPVs because of bad build-ups and predictable match finishes in favor of watching the latest episode of Walking Dead. That is a competition.
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Post by Triple S on Feb 25, 2013 18:42:52 GMT -5
There were still big shows back in the late 90's too. It's not like the competition wasn't there then, but is now.
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Post by Joe/Smurf on Feb 25, 2013 18:43:01 GMT -5
They didn't use five hours of television each week (then, Heat/Raw/Smackdown) to show the same 20 people in every backstage segment, match, promo, and video package.
They "spread the wealth" so to speak, with each person fitting in where they would: brawlers would have a hardcore match, technical guys might be in singles or tag match, the good talkers would cut a promo, the high fliers would get the highlight packages, then there would just be one big main event match with the top-tier guys per show.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 19:12:13 GMT -5
theres some simple answers here.
first is Bonnie Hammer from USA network.she taught Vince how to make a show tick over by delivering "bullet point high segments" as she calls them & to update from the 80s style of televisual delivery........this was never more evident than in AE.USA sent her in when Vince was taking a hammering in 96.
secondly......during the Attitude Era Vince was in competition with WCW and was obsessing about making EVERY facet of his show good......thats why he got ninterested in his midcard and tag titles again......he couldnt afford for them to be crap.Vince high points have always came when he had GENUINE opposition.his national expansion,scooping up every wrestler he could and domination of the PPV system was driven by it in the 80s and his creative juices flowed like f*ck from late 96 onwards because WCW had him pinned down.
when I talk about competition I am of course talking about other wrestling companies.
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
Main Eventer
I need a monster condom for my magnum sized dong.
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Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Feb 25, 2013 19:28:18 GMT -5
Promos were limited to 1 minute or less. Vince wasn't trying to bullsh*t us during the Attitude Era.
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Post by drifter on Feb 25, 2013 19:28:43 GMT -5
theres some simple answers here. first is Bonnie Hammer from USA network.she taught Vince how to make a show tick over by delivering "bullet point high segments" as she calls them & to update from the 80s style of televisual delivery........this was never more evident than in AE.USA sent her in when Vince was taking a hammering in 96. secondly...... during the Attitude Era Vince was in competition with WCW and was obsessing about making EVERY facet of his show good......thats why he got ninterested in his midcard and tag titles again......he couldnt afford for them to be crap.Vince high points have always came when he had GENUINE opposition.his national expansion,scooping up every wrestler he could and domination of the PPV system was driven by it in the 80s and his creative juices flowed like f*ck from late 96 onwards because WCW had him pinned down. when I talk about competition I am of course talking about other wrestling companies. When you boil it down, that's pretty much it. He couldn't rely on a small core of guys every single week. Vince needed to have a variety of talent to make his show entertaining. It's not like today, where he could just kill a push, because a guy did something to piss him off. If a talent, or storyline was getting over, he needed to use it. I would also say, the loosen restrictions on talent helped too. They did not have everything written out for them from matches to promos. They were given the ability to ad lib and change in mid stream, which really helped a lot of guys get over, and thus made them an important part of the show.
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Post by IRS on Feb 25, 2013 19:35:29 GMT -5
Lack of competition is severely hurting them right now, if there was another company in the present day like WCW with the funding and the desire to take WWE down ,then I think things would be 1000x better.
Plus it doesn't help that Vince still thinks his ideas are gold.
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