Deleted
Joined on: May 12, 2024 7:18:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 12:07:54 GMT -5
Yeah i was referring to the way They used the majority of his ideas and direction though.thats not to take away from DL tho....
|
|
|
Post by cordless2016 on Nov 20, 2013 19:22:41 GMT -5
I would pick Smackdown in 2003 over Raw in 2003 hands down. There was a time period in the summer of 2003 where Smackdown had main event show after main event show each week. It started with Matt Hardy vs. Rey Mysterio for the Cruiserweight Title, and the next week that's the opening match for their rematch! That was around the time Lesnar and Show made the ring collapse, Kurt Angle returned, and they were having the weekly tournament for the US Title finals at Vengeance. Mean while on Raw, we saw the same old stuff. Dudleys vs. La Resistance, Evolution destroying HBK, Nash and Hurricane, Steiner and Test going at it, Jericho and Christian wrestling Storm and Booker. It's sad cause for what talent Raw had at the time, they could have been on par with Smackdown. Then in 2004, all the talent that made Smackdown great came to Raw. Benoit, Hardy, Edge, Shelton, Rhyno, and Smackdown became a shell of itself. If you don't remember, just go back and read the results of Great American Bash 2004... cause that shows you how bad Smackdown got at that time. Yeah SD in 2004 took a huge nosedive. W/ the departure of Lesnar, and Angle and Show taking time off, SD had no legit top heels. Booker T was brought over to help fill that role but he quickly became fodder for Cena for the rest of the year. JBL was a great character but the ME was seriously lacking from the year before. RVD and Mysterio basically did nothing for the year too. The SD midcard, which was so strong in 2003, was hurt by the depature of certain talent and just lackluster writing. 2004 was also the first year that the WWE was seriously promoting SD as the "B" brand versus being on par with Raw.
|
|
|
Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Nov 20, 2013 22:31:47 GMT -5
I have said this to many wrestling fans I know outside of here one thing. When Brock Lesnar left in 2004, it left a bigger void in the WWE that they could not imagine. 2004 was a very weird year for the WWE as a whole. Aside from No Way Out 2004, there aren't many SmackDown PPV's I felt were any good. If anything, the best non-major PPV that year was Backlash. In retrospect, 2004 wasn't a good year for the most part. After the 2004 Draft Lottery, I stopped watching SmackDown for about six weeks.
The WWE was on such a mean streak in 2003. As bad as RAW was in 2003, it was better than sitting and watching RAW a year later. 2004 to me, is one of the weaker years in the WWE. Its sad the WWE had such a deep roster in 2003 later to having a weak (you can also say thin) roster a year later. I'd take the main event scene in 2003 over 2004.
|
|
|
Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 20, 2013 22:39:14 GMT -5
Yeah, but at least that brand split back then helped get guys on TV or PPVs.
Every PPV now seems to have the same guys on it just paired up against different opponents for the most part. Sure, the odd time you'll see a guy get on a PPV that isn't usually on it, but he's just there to put over said normal PPV guy.
So even though 2004 for Smackdown was pretty bad then, at least a lot of guys got a PPV pay check and TV time.
|
|
|
Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Nov 21, 2013 0:04:51 GMT -5
Yeah, but at least that brand split back then helped get guys on TV or PPVs. Every PPV now seems to have the same guys on it just paired up against different opponents for the most part. Sure, the odd time you'll see a guy get on a PPV that isn't usually on it, but he's just there to put over said normal PPV guy. So even though 2004 for Smackdown was pretty bad then, at least a lot of guys got a PPV pay check and TV time. Your post is the main upside to those brand exclusive PPV's. Had Vengeance 2003 was a dual brand PPV, it wouldn't have been as good as it was.
|
|
|
Post by Wicked on Nov 21, 2013 0:15:14 GMT -5
To be honest I loved the matches they had. I really loved the post attitude era rosters. There were some great matches.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 12, 2024 7:18:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 5:54:30 GMT -5
I have said this to many wrestling fans I know outside of here one thing. When Brock Lesnar left in 2004, it left a bigger void in the WWE that they could not imagine. 2004 was a very weird year for the WWE as a whole. Aside from No Way Out 2004, there aren't many SmackDown PPV's I felt were any good. If anything, the best non-major PPV that year was Backlash. In retrospect, 2004 wasn't a good year for the most part. After the 2004 Draft Lottery, I stopped watching SmackDown for about six weeks. The WWE was on such a mean streak in 2003. As bad as RAW was in 2003, it was better than sitting and watching RAW a year later. 2004 to me, is one of the weaker years in the WWE. Its sad the WWE had such a deep roster in 2003 later to having a weak (you can also say thin) roster a year later. I'd take the main event scene in 2003 over 2004. great post.agreed 100%
|
|
|
Post by wyleecyotee on Nov 21, 2013 12:37:17 GMT -5
If it weren't for Benoits World Title reign then 2004 would probably be a lot worse to me but its still a lot better than recent years. That seemed to also be the year where the WWE changed for me visually, its a strange one to describe but WWE always had certain looks for certain periods and 2004 seem to go a bit off visually to me.
2002/03 SD was so awesome though, some of the matches and storyline and talent they had was just unreal. WWE as a whole today isn't half as good as Smackdown was then. I'd love to go for another brand split but only if Smackdown was given what they had in 02/03 and around 09/10ish when Raw had the big dogs and Smackdown had all the young talent and more technical wrestlers. Also need to have a different layout to the arena and not the same as Raw but blue but thats not as big as the talent side. I look forward these days more for NXT because it seems a bit like SD! was back then with the new young talent all trying to just show off what they can do and as its not as "big" as Raw they seemed to get away with a little bit of edgier stuff like Punks cult.
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Nov 21, 2013 12:40:33 GMT -5
Nothing better than a good old Kurt Angle vs. __________ match.
|
|
|
Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 21, 2013 12:41:25 GMT -5
If it weren't for Benoits World Title reign then 2004 would probably be a lot worse to me but its still a lot better than recent years. That seemed to also be the year where the WWE changed for me visually, its a strange one to describe but WWE always had certain looks for certain periods and 2004 seem to go a bit off visually to me. 2002/03 SD was so awesome though, some of the matches and storyline and talent they had was just unreal. WWE as a whole today isn't half as good as Smackdown was then. I'd love to go for another brand split but only if Smackdown was given what they had in 02/03 and around 09/10ish when Raw had the big dogs and Smackdown had all the young talent and more technical wrestlers. Also need to have a different layout to the arena and not the same as Raw but blue but thats not as big as the talent side. I look forward these days more for NXT because it seems a bit like SD! was back then with the new young talent all trying to just show off what they can do and as its not as "big" as Raw they seemed to get away with a little bit of edgier stuff like Punks cult. If they had a brand split now, that would mean that we would only see Daniel Bryan vs. The Shield on one show per week, instead of both shows. Heaven forbid other talent gets on TV. But I agree with you. A brand split would help so many other talent that is on the roster. I remember everyone was excited to hear Raw was gonna be 3 hours long, and I said "it won't meant any new stars will be appearing" and I was right. It just means a lot of talk, and a lot of re-cap of what happened an hour ago.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 12, 2024 7:18:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 12:44:42 GMT -5
I loved Matt Hardy Version 1 in 2003.
In fact, I loved a lot from 2003. Good stuff there all around.
|
|
|
Post by wyleecyotee on Nov 21, 2013 12:45:39 GMT -5
If it weren't for Benoits World Title reign then 2004 would probably be a lot worse to me but its still a lot better than recent years. That seemed to also be the year where the WWE changed for me visually, its a strange one to describe but WWE always had certain looks for certain periods and 2004 seem to go a bit off visually to me. 2002/03 SD was so awesome though, some of the matches and storyline and talent they had was just unreal. WWE as a whole today isn't half as good as Smackdown was then. I'd love to go for another brand split but only if Smackdown was given what they had in 02/03 and around 09/10ish when Raw had the big dogs and Smackdown had all the young talent and more technical wrestlers. Also need to have a different layout to the arena and not the same as Raw but blue but thats not as big as the talent side. I look forward these days more for NXT because it seems a bit like SD! was back then with the new young talent all trying to just show off what they can do and as its not as "big" as Raw they seemed to get away with a little bit of edgier stuff like Punks cult. If they had a brand split now, that would mean that we would only see Daniel Bryan vs. The Shield on one show per week, instead of both shows. Heaven forbid other talent gets on TV. But I agree with you. A brand split would help so many other talent that is on the roster. I remember everyone was excited to hear Raw was gonna be 3 hours long, and I said "it won't meant any new stars will be appearing" and I was right. It just means a lot of talk, and a lot of re-cap of what happened an hour ago. Yeah, I'd love the brand split but like I said, only if Smackdown was left alone like it was in 02/03. It did seem like Vince was so into Raw (even though he was the SD GM to begin with ) that Smackdown just did its own thing and pushed all this new and young talent and even guys like Benoit, Angle, Eddie and Edge who where never "WWE Main Event", where made into stars. Only problem, like its been pointed out, is once Vince saw the starpower Smackdown was making he would steal them for Raw.
|
|
|
Post by cordless2016 on Nov 22, 2013 0:39:44 GMT -5
I have said this to many wrestling fans I know outside of here one thing. When Brock Lesnar left in 2004, it left a bigger void in the WWE that they could not imagine. 2004 was a very weird year for the WWE as a whole. Aside from No Way Out 2004, there aren't many SmackDown PPV's I felt were any good. If anything, the best non-major PPV that year was Backlash. In retrospect, 2004 wasn't a good year for the most part. After the 2004 Draft Lottery, I stopped watching SmackDown for about six weeks. The WWE was on such a mean streak in 2003. As bad as RAW was in 2003, it was better than sitting and watching RAW a year later. 2004 to me, is one of the weaker years in the WWE. Its sad the WWE had such a deep roster in 2003 later to having a weak (you can also say thin) roster a year later. I'd take the main event scene in 2003 over 2004. I think the problem with 2004 was that it was a "stall" year for the WWE. Instead of moving forward and building towards the future a lot of things stayed the same. On Raw Benoit was putting on great match after great match, but he was promoted as second rate to HHH and HBK. That was the real focal point of Raw and Benoit just played a supporting player with a world title. Goldberg was gone so his botched push in 2003 meant little. Randy Orton got hot but was mainly given the WHC so that Lesnar wouldn't be the youngest champ anymore. That and his title reign meant crap after being buried by Evolution for months. Edge, Jericho, and Christian did nothing of note and seemed to be stuck in the midcard all year. Shelton Benjamin got a big push in the midcard but by mid-2005 he was dropped by creative. The tag division was in horrible shape as La Resistance was the only full-time team on the roster for the full year. All of this combined to make Raw lackluster that year. However we were getting much better quality matches on Raw in 2004 than in 2003 so personally I'd say Raw in 2004 was more entertaining than in 2003. SD suffered from loosing too many top name talent. Lesnar left the WWE, Benoit was moved to Raw, and Angle and Big Show missed half the year with injuries. Those were four top names from 2003 and their departures that left a huge void on SD, especially in the top heel department. Eddie's title run was hurt from a lack of credible heels. JBL had a great push and his character was entertaining but his lack of in-ring skills made SD main events very lackluster. Booker T was moved to SD to add another top heel to the show but all he did was become fodder for a midcard Cena all year. The midcard, which was also very strong in 2003, took a huge nosedive in 2004. Cena was receiving his "Super-Cena" push in the midcard, but nothing else of note happened that year. Booker was fodder for Cena, while talented guys like RVD and Rey Mysterio did nothing all year. Rene Dupree showed potential but his push was dropped out of nowhere and a very green-talent in Kenzo Suzuki received an undeserved push for a short while. The tag division was slightly better than Raw's that year, but that's not saying much.
|
|
|
Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 22, 2013 0:50:46 GMT -5
The one thing about Raw in 2004 was that you were pretty much guaranteed to see Rhyno and partner of his choice go after La Resistance for the Tag Titles. They should have given Rhyno and Tajiri a Tag Title run, even for a month, it would have still be different.
There was a lot of Orton/Batista vs. Edge/Jericho, or Jericho vs. Orton, Edge vs. Orton, Jericho vs. Batista, Edge vs. Batista, Benoit, Jericho, Edge vs. Orton, Flair, Batista, or Benoit & Eugene vs. Evolution in some form, or Shelton vs. Orton, or Jericho & Shelton vs. Orton & Flair
Raw definitely had a routine with their matches, but the thing is that it was quite enjoyable, because I was a fan of everyone at the time.
As soon as Cena came to Raw in 2005, and Jericho and Christian left the company, I just didn't enjoy Raw that much until Edge came back from his injury and cashed in the MITB on Cena. Once Edge got into the main event, I enjoyed Raw again.
|
|
|
Post by wyleecyotee on Nov 22, 2013 5:57:16 GMT -5
Edge is one of the best examples in how booking was so different on both shows.
On smackdown (before his injury and return to Raw for some reason) he could have believably won the wwe title and the majority would have accepted him as a champion.
On raw, when he returned, it took him till winning the MITB just to look credible at all and even when he cashed in, he never looked as good as Cena did and just a quickly as he won the title he drops it.
Smackdown writers definitely valued Edge more and without his run in 02/03 I don't think he would have been as valued as he was at raw and gotten to where he was/would have taken him a lot longer.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 12, 2024 7:18:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2013 15:44:58 GMT -5
we must also give credit to Heyman for the awesome success of SD! in 2002/2003.until the windowlicking daughter of McMahon decided he wasn't fitting in on Creative(IE:NOT a yes man). but yeah SD! was awesome for a stretch. Paul Heyman wasn't the head writer of SmackDown for very long. For the most part, David Lagana became the head writer of Smackdown in early-2003. In 2006, Lagana became the head writer of ECW till his departure in 2008. So he's the reason those shows were the top shows in those years. God bless him.
|
|
|
Post by Booger Red on Nov 27, 2013 18:03:28 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this match, Cordless. That promo between Benoit and Angle before the match was absolutely intense. I'm kind of surprised that they had Angle go over Benoit clean again instead of Benoit getting the win, the post match attack and save could have happened. I guess they wanted Team Angle to look strong before the NWO PPV to make Lesnar and Benoit's win at No Way Out bigger.
|
|