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Post by JokerFC on May 31, 2017 5:09:15 GMT -5
How in the ![](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wfcensored.gif) was Nolan lazy with Joker's characterization? He and Ledger crafted one of the best villains in cinema history that transcended that of a same ol run of the mill comicbook villain. JokerFC has a long known dislike for Ledger's Joker. And then over the years a lot of people have become anti Nolans take based on how much the majority loved them. You know, words like "overrated" and "fanboys" thrown around a lot. Personally I loved the Nolan trilogy. And I think Dark Knight is great crime noir. Also Harvey Dent was the real star in my opinion, but that's neither here nor there. But at the same time I like different takes. When new artists and writers take over with new stories, they have different takes. While I enjoyed Ledger miles over anyone else, I still liked Nicholson and Leto for what they were. Nolan was able to make a Batman movie taken seriously and considered one of the best films of all time by most. So personally, I wouldn't say lazy. To each their own lads. Also I don't have a "long known dislike" for Ledgers Joker but its far from the flawless creation you boys think it is. if I did have this dislike? I wouldn't have a hand crafted glass engraving of the character in my sitting room. But I will always stand by what I said about Nolans movies. I enjoyed them but yes they are overrated IN MY OPINION. still so tricky for people to get a handle on.....because its Nolan/Ledger? its instantly "toys outta the cot" time. Its not based on the majority loving them. I got so much crap on this forum because I said I preferred BB to TDK......looks like its still lingering.
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Post by JokerFC on May 31, 2017 5:15:47 GMT -5
is it because you have you seen it already man? Or is it just you were expecting it to be awful rubbish and are shocked user ratings are good? Shocked it got a 97%.. Which is the highest rating a superhero movie has ever received.. Higher than Guardians of the Galaxy. HIGHER THAN THE DARK KNIGHT! Are you trying to tell me that Wonder Woman is a better movie than The Dark Knight, The Avengers, and Spider-Man 2?? I'm all for it being a good movie, that's awesome.. But at 97%, they're telling me that Wonder Woman is a freaking Oscar contender. I think like others have said man? that rating will probably dip. I was reading some great online reviews for it yesterday. Fiona is the huge WW fan in our house so I think it has sealed the deal and it will be a trip to the cinema for us. For what its worth? Most reviews seem to credit the lighter tone and well paced action with WWs success. More than one review has praised it as Pines finest role to date and say that while Gadot delivers as WW shes just "there" as Diana Prince. Now I really hope that isn't true and that he has improved since BvS. Going to do a double bill next Tuesday of POTC5 & WW I reckon!!
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 8:57:48 GMT -5
How in the ![](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wfcensored.gif) was Nolan lazy with Joker's characterization? He and Ledger crafted one of the best villains in cinema history that transcended that of a same ol run of the mill comicbook villain. JokerFC has a long known dislike for Ledger's Joker. And then over the years a lot of people have become anti Nolans take based on how much the majority loved them. You know, words like "overrated" and "fanboys" thrown around a lot. Personally I loved the Nolan trilogy. And I think Dark Knight is great crime noir. Also Harvey Dent was the real star in my opinion, but that's neither here nor there. But at the same time I like different takes. When new artists and writers take over with new stories, they have different takes. While I enjoyed Ledger miles over anyone else, I still liked Nicholson and Leto for what they were. Nolan was able to make a Batman movie taken seriously and considered one of the best films of all time by most. So personally, I wouldn't say lazy. Don't get me wrong...I love JokerFC. And when I was here before this is something he and I disagreed on. I love Nicholson's Joker for sure. Hell, Batman '89 is my all time favorite film. But lazy is the exact opposite of what I would call Ledger's portrayal. I had a conversation with a film buff friend of mine when TDK came out and his biggest problem with The Joker was that he wasnt "funny" enough. I have never considered The Joker to be a funny character. He is one with a twisted since of humor instead. And in a post 9/11 America where everything was serious as hell at the time, Ledger portrayed the perfect villain for the time. I wrote my term paper for a psych class comparing Ledger and Nicholson and what circumstances lead to them being the type of Joker they were. I will defend Ledger's portrayal until the end. Even though, as stated above, Batman '89 is my all time favorite film.
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Post by punksnotdead on May 31, 2017 10:28:25 GMT -5
I think Heath Ledger gave the single greatest acting performance in a "superhero" based film of all time, to-date. Amazing director, in charge of an actor who literally killed himself for a role. Nicholson was great for his time, but putting that specific Jack performance on a pedestal is nostalgia imo. To be fair, they were playing two entirely different incarnations of the Joker. So it's apples to oranges in many ways. Never has the comic book industry been held to the standard that Nolan created in terms of technical film making though. The anti-Nolan stuff over the last few years has become hilarious. Nolan is an absolutely phenomenal film maker and it was a joy to see him make 3 films within, what I consider to be, the best universe in comic book history.
Pleasantly surprised at the reception for WW. I'm glad to seemingly be wrong about the box office too. Seems like it's been building momentum from the reviews and projections are up. So that's good news across the board. I'm slammed this upcoming weekend but I definitely plan on seeing it over the next couple of weeks. Hopefully it's great and sets a positive tone for fans heading into Justice League.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 10:36:21 GMT -5
I think Heath Ledger gave the single greatest acting performance in a "superhero" based film of all time, to-date. Amazing director, in charge of an actor who literally killed himself for a role. Nicholson was great for his time, but putting that specific Jack performance on a pedestal is nostalgia imo. To be fair, they were playing two entirely different incarnations of the Joker. So it's apples to oranges in many ways. Never has the comic book industry been held to the standard that Nolan created in terms of technical film making though. The anti-Nolan stuff over the last few years has become hilarious. Nolan is an absolutely phenomenal film maker and it was a joy to see him make 3 films within, what I consider to be, the best universe in comic book history. Pleasantly surprised at the reception for WW. I'm glad to seemingly be wrong about the box office too. Seems like it's been building momentum from the reviews and projections are up. So that's good news across the board. I'm slammed this upcoming weekend but I definitely plan on seeing it over the next couple of weeks. Hopefully it's great and sets a positive tone for fans heading into Justice League. I don't get the Nolan hate either. It totally screams bandwagon-jumping nonsense. God forbid someone creates a thought provoking film nowadays. Let alone a thought provoking comic book film..
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Post by TheLastDude on May 31, 2017 14:39:18 GMT -5
I think Heath Ledger gave the single greatest acting performance in a "superhero" based film of all time, to-date. You know what made Ledger's performance so great? The fact that his Joker didn't feel like he was in a comic book movie. You could have transplanted Ledger's Joker into any other film that needed a psychopath and it would have felt natural. THAT'S the "realism" we as fans want. We want to feel like these characters are natural, that they're real and living things. It's not that we want them to wear matching black tactical suits so they look like a military team. That's that bullcrap Sony and WB realism.
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Post by cordless2016 on May 31, 2017 17:47:30 GMT -5
The first two Nolan films are two of the three best Batman films, but TDKR was a terrible film IMO. However, I do find them overrated a bit. I get he wanted to make them realistic, but comic movies are still suppose to suspend disbelief a bit, and that "comic atmosphere" is what was sorely lacking in TDK.
I love both Jack and Ledger the same. They played two totally different versions of the character so I've never understood why people try to compare them.
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Post by JokerFC on May 31, 2017 17:56:47 GMT -5
People shouldn't compare them...but do so all the time.
People also shouldn't judge letos Joker so harshly on his limited screen time? but you know what? there are people who ludicrously think nobody should have played the character after ledger. So he was on a loser with some immediately.
I also wasn't aware nolan "hate" was a thing now....as I say I was never crazy about him guess that makes me the driver of this bandwagon you boys are talking about....lol.
Also Punksnotdead? Putting jack on a pedestal isn't some nostalgia trip for me. He's Denny O Neil's murderous clown come to life. The Joker that crippled Babs and killed Robin.
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Post by Nivro™ on May 31, 2017 18:10:01 GMT -5
People shouldn't compare them...but do so all the time. People also shouldn't judge letos Joker so harshly on his limited screen time? but you know what? there are people who ludicrously think nobody should have played the character after ledger. So he was on a loser with some immediately. I also wasn't aware nolan "hate" was a thing now....as I say I was never crazy about him guess that makes me the driver of this bandwagon you boys are talking about....lol. Also Punksnotdead? Putting jack on a pedestal isn't some nostalgia trip for me. He's Denny O Neil's murderous clown come to life. The Joker that crippled Babs and killed Robin. I dont think the majority of Leto's Joker hate comes from his portrayal of the character, its his look. He just looks absolutely re- ![](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wfcensored.gif) ing-diculous!!
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Post by Word™ on May 31, 2017 19:20:09 GMT -5
The first two Nolan films are two of the three best Batman films, but TDKR was a terrible film IMO. However, I do find them overrated a bit. I get he wanted to make them realistic, but comic movies are still suppose to suspend disbelief a bit, and that "comic atmosphere" is what was sorely lacking in TDK. I love both Jack and Ledger the same. They played two totally different versions of the character so I've never understood why people try to compare them. I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling like this. The Dark Knight Rises is a ridiculous movie, and it hasn't aged well. Don't get it twisted, I enjoy watching it from time to time.. It's a decent conclusion to the trilogy. But the movie is not that good.. I like calling it "a movie event".. The Dark Knight Rises was one of the first times I remember where going to see a film in theaters turned into an event and everyone and their Mom got out and went to see it.
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Post by cordless2016 on May 31, 2017 19:35:51 GMT -5
The first two Nolan films are two of the three best Batman films, but TDKR was a terrible film IMO. However, I do find them overrated a bit. I get he wanted to make them realistic, but comic movies are still suppose to suspend disbelief a bit, and that "comic atmosphere" is what was sorely lacking in TDK. I love both Jack and Ledger the same. They played two totally different versions of the character so I've never understood why people try to compare them. I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling like this. The Dark Knight Rises is a ridiculous movie, and it hasn't aged well. Don't get it twisted, I enjoy watching it from time to time.. It's a decent conclusion to the trilogy. But the movie is not that good.. I like calling it "a movie event".. The Dark Knight Rises was one of the first times I remember where going to see a film in theaters turned into an event and everyone and their Mom got out and went to see it. I could write multiple novels on why I hate TDKR. Tom Hardy is literally the only thing I like about it. From a downright depressing story, to the way they butchered Bruce's character, the movie is riddled with crap.
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Post by JokerFC on Jun 1, 2017 17:36:26 GMT -5
My main problem with TDKR is still Alfred walking out on Bruce. Unforgiveable from Nolan.
Getting back on topic? My pal has seen Wonder Woman. We have had manys the row about this movie over the last few months. I liked GG as WW but felt she was crap as Diana....he was the opposite way around.
He really liked the movie and had no optimism about it going in. He reckons Pine carries the Diana scenes and GG delivers in spades during the action. We all surmised Pine was placed here to carry the weight during the non action and looks like we were right.
he also said it was lighter....and because of that? its a more fun experience. Going to see it next Tuesday....looking forward to it now.
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Post by Word™ on Jun 1, 2017 22:51:07 GMT -5
Best thing I'm hearing with Wonder Woman is it's not establishing more universe.
It's a solo Wonder Woman movie and it's treated as such.
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Post by JokerFC on Jun 1, 2017 23:24:56 GMT -5
Best thing I'm hearing with Wonder Woman is it's not establishing more universe. It's a solo Wonder Woman movie and it's treated as such. Yes.....Liam said this too. He drew many parallels between WW and Cap:TFA. Universe building is light because at this point in time? There's little universe TO BUILD if ya like.
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Post by marino13 on Jun 2, 2017 20:29:25 GMT -5
Glad I'm not the only one that wasn't crazy about the Dark Knight Rises. It's was just an okay at best. Certainly didn't live up to the first two installments. But to be fair, Ledger set the bar ridiculously high. Not sure anyone could have followed that performance.
Saw WW tonight. I liked it. It was easily the best DCEU film to date. I will say there was times I felted it dragged a lil. And I do see the comparisons to Captain America: First Avenger. But, it was relieving though walking out of a DC film and not feeling utter disappoint.
For me personally...
1) WW 2) SS 3) BvS 4) MOS
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 3, 2017 20:54:07 GMT -5
Just saw WW. A solid movie. Nothing super memorable but easily the best of the four DCU movies, and better than some of the worst MCU movies. I'd rank the DCU as...
1) WW 2) MOS 3) BvS: Directors Cut 4) SS
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Post by bababooey on Jun 4, 2017 11:48:48 GMT -5
Haven't been able to confirm this anywhere but does anyone know if The Chief in Wonder Woman was a reference to Apache Chief? He was considerably taller than the others in the group, he was Native American, he had the pigtail braids, and they called him Chief.
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Post by JokerFC on Jun 5, 2017 4:25:30 GMT -5
100 Million opening weekend for Wonder Woman so that will please the bean counters @ WB/DC. That has comfortably defied expectations for the movie in fairness.
I haven't seen it yet but I'm hoping to catch it tomorrow!!!
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Post by JokerFC on Jun 5, 2017 9:25:45 GMT -5
Raining here today so I put my feet up and watched Justice League: Dark. I thought it was very enjoyable.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 11:08:57 GMT -5
Raining here today so I put my feet up and watched Justice League: Dark. I thought it was very enjoyable. Swamp Thing couldve had a bigger part. But it was one of the better animated films DC puts out.
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