|
|
Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Jul 16, 2014 18:25:57 GMT -5
So this is a bit of a weird question, and I've been wrestling (no pun intended) with how to phrase it. Basically the 90s for WWE started on the back of a ridiculously successful few years, went through probably the worst slump in its history and then came out hotter than ever. My question is basically what year do you think was the most important to this revival? Not what was the best, or what had the most stuff, but what was the year where the most stuff happened that led (directly or indirectly) to the Attitude Era? Like what year had the biggest role in making WWE shift in such a major way, and had one or two things changed the outcome could've been completely different?
I'd say 1996. It wasn't the best year for WWE by any stretch of the imagination (albeit better than 1995). The NWO came along and WCW really started to dominate the ratings. Meanwhile Vince had some decent stuff, but HBK-Bret was not the gold-dust that it should have been (albeit relatively compelling nonetheless). Diesel and Ramon were leaving (which has been stated by various members here as being vital to the new crop of stars that came along) and Vince was really up against it. This forced him to get creative and led to the much improved 1997 and then finally 1998 where the tide began to turn.
For anyone who likes football (soccer) I liken it a bit to Arsenal in recent years, with Wenger = Vince. They come off a successful period (1998-2005 for Arsenal, late 80s for Vince) and realise that rebuilding is needed now the stars of that time are getting on. They blood a new generation (Fabregas & RVP = Bret & Shawn) and hope that this will lead to a new boom, but things don't work out perfectly. The competition (MUFC, CFC & MCFC = WCW) are on fire whereas one thing or another prevents you from reaching your peak (For Arsenal this was RVP being injured whilst Cesc was at his best, forcing Cesc to carry the team and eventually get sick of it; RVP then got better and did the same and in turn got sick of it; for WWE this was Bret/Shawn and other stuff not reaching the peak that Vince expected). As a result the expected new boom never came and the leader was forced to get creative (money on Ozil & Sanchez = going more edgy in the Attitude Era).
This is hopefully where the analogy ends because WWE became top dog again whereas I hope Arsenal struggle next year. But hopefully you see my point - which year was most vital in WWE realising its mistakes and moving onto the more successful formula?
I'm pretty pissed whilst writing this so I hope it comes across as legible and understandable
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 2, 2024 15:13:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 18:34:43 GMT -5
I would say 1996......because of what started to happen in LATE 1996
Vince was stunned that HBK & Bret were both booed at Survivor Series 1996.....Cornette said he was stuck to the floor in MSG with the reactions to HBK and Hart.
Survivor Series 1996(and Brets return) did NOT draw well.....despite the strong card and return of Hart.
I firmly believe in the weeks after Survivors Series 1996 he started to see what needed changing and more importantly? HOW to go about these changes.
Now there was still Mis steps in late 96.....fake Diesel & Razor for one BUT generally things started swinging upwards after SS96. IYH:Its Time had a noticeably different tone......
|
|
|
|
Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 16, 2014 18:43:34 GMT -5
InB4daBash
1997. Most flawless year of the past 20 years IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Kevstaaa on Jul 16, 2014 19:48:09 GMT -5
InB4daBash 1997. Most flawless year of the past 20 years IMO. He gets it. |
|
|
|
Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 16, 2014 20:58:13 GMT -5
InB4daBash 1997. Most flawless year of the past 20 years IMO. He gets it. It really is the most integral year of modern professional wrestling. The only year since that could even be in the conversation is 2001 with the purchase of WCW. 1997 set the stage for the Attitude Era. If things like Austins rise, MSJ, DX, don't happen then we could very well be talking about WCW on a daily basis and the WWE discussion would be relegated to the classics board. |
|
|
|
Post by King Richius on Jul 16, 2014 22:02:01 GMT -5
I'm torn between '96 and '97 but I think I'll go with '97. I think that in late '96 the WWE was still reeling a little from the loss of top stars to WCW and the unexpected ratings juggernaut that the nWo became. '97 was the year all the groundwork was laid for WWE eventually taking back the top rating spot. Everybody was so afraid of not only losing their jobs but the WWE actually going under that the rules were thrown out the window and those who showed the most talent rose to the top regardless of any previous glass ceiling (Foley) or past transgressions (HHH) or bad booking/gimmicks (Austin, Rock). Looking back at '97 a lot of risks were taken out of desperation and surprisingly most of it worked.
|
|
|
|
Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Jul 16, 2014 23:46:16 GMT -5
The WWF was beginning to change in late-1996. Vince McMahon was beginning to realize that WCW was becoming a threat. Therefore, the WWF had to change with the times. Vince Russo mentioned on Steve Austin's podcast that he had it out with McMahon one time. Soon after, McMahon realized that the WWF needed to shift its focus from cartoon characters to more true to life personas. Once the WWF changed their programming and started to make the product more edgy, McMahon was finally able to change his focus. It is funny how in a span of one year McMahon didn't see $$$ signs on Austin to seeing $$$ on Austin. While it looked basic, Austin's "Austin 3:16" t-shirt made them millions of dollars.
Some may say 1997 was one of the better years but in reality, 1997 was merely a transitional year for the WWF. The WWF was on the road to the Attitude Era in 1997 but the checkpoint was far, far away. Another reason why 1997 is viewed as a transitional year is because they needed a lot of time building their next big mega star. Of course became Steve Austin. I remember watching Survivor Series 1996 live and man, that crowd was clamoring to seeing something different. That is one of the main reasons why Sid got such a big reaction. In the end, 1996 was when McMahon was waking up, smelling the coffee, and decided to take his company in the direction it needed. 1997 became the long highway drive. In 1998, the road trip came to an end when Austin became the WWF Champion and ushering in the long direction McMahon needed to make his company profitable.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 2, 2024 15:13:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 6:55:20 GMT -5
It really is the most integral year of modern professional wrestling. The only year since that could even be in the conversation is 2001 with the purchase of WCW. 1997 set the stage for the Attitude Era. If things like Austins rise, MSJ, DX, don't happen then we could very well be talking about WCW on a daily basis and the WWE discussion would be relegated to the classics board. hey!!!! NOTHING gets "relegated" to my Classics board!!! Its the best board on this damn forum I tell ya. damn crazy kids!!!  |
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 2, 2024 15:13:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 7:10:56 GMT -5
Gotta be 1997. That was the year that they started to turn it around. And the quality of work in that year by all the top guys was amazing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brad on Jul 17, 2014 7:26:50 GMT -5
InB4daBash 1997. Most flawless year of the past 20 years IMO. This is hard to argue with |
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 2, 2024 15:13:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 9:55:39 GMT -5
1997.
The greatest year in the history of our sport.
However, the seeds were planted in 1996 but wasn't grown into greatness until 1997.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 17, 2014 17:04:02 GMT -5
It really is the most integral year of modern professional wrestling. The only year since that could even be in the conversation is 2001 with the purchase of WCW. 1997 set the stage for the Attitude Era. If things like Austins rise, MSJ, DX, don't happen then we could very well be talking about WCW on a daily basis and the WWE discussion would be relegated to the classics board. hey!!!! NOTHING gets "relegated" to my Classics board!!! Its the best board on this damn forum I tell ya. damn crazy kids!!! Well it is the best damn board in the world. You got me there. |
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 2, 2024 15:13:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 4:22:49 GMT -5
Both companies upped their game in a big way in 1997, and as a 15 year old kid, that was amazing to me to witness firsthand...a balanced year for WWE in terms of compelling characters, great wrestling and interesting storylines, a balanced year for WCW with nWo running roughshod over WCW, but I'd personally also like to mention the contributions of ECW, who finally premiered a PPV in 1997 which is one of the most fun I've ever seen; Sabu and Taz finally clashing at Barely Legal was amazing, amongst other great matchups...
For me also, years later I got to see how incredible the in-ring action of The Four Corners of Heaven in All Japan, namely an insanely stiff match between Misawa and Kawada on June 6th; given 5 stars by WON.
Plus, Rick Rude appeared on Raw and Nitro on the same night in '97, how good was that?
|
|
|
|
Post by Hendrix83 on Jul 21, 2014 18:58:14 GMT -5
1997.
No doubt about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by LeighD on Jul 21, 2014 21:09:19 GMT -5
Tough. Very tough. I think many will say 1997 for the clear and obvious reasons, which no one can deny. In 1997 the wrestling landscape changed forever and in a big way. However I do think 1996 is really the pivotal year.
The year began in the same manner as the previous. The cartoonish characters, the tried-and-true angles/storylines, etc. Both companies tried new twists for the first half with nothing really catching on. However the 1996 Bash at the Beach Hogan heel turn is probably the one single event that started the change. Hogan going heel had never been done since he became the icon of wrestling. Vince in turn kept throwing sh*t at the wall hoping something would stick. Nothing really did, save for one Steve Austin. By late 1996 the whole industry was changing, leaving a cartoonish world and venturing into a more real-life feel. By the end of 1996, a new world was on the horizon and new rules were soon to be established.
|
|
jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
Posts: 2,843
|
Post by jakksking1 on Jul 21, 2014 22:35:47 GMT -5
I'll be the person to argue something other than the phenomenally amazing 1997.
1992. McMahon gets put on trial for steroid distribution. The company is forced to move away from the roid heads of the 1980s like Hogan, Warrior, Savage and literally every other wrestler and the give the ball to the "smaller" wrestlers who don't "look" like they do the gas like HBK and Hart. That never happens, we would probably be watching muscle bound maniacs finishing matches off with press slams. There also would be no screw job (Hart would never hold the WWF title), no Mr. McMahon character......
|
|
|
|
Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Jul 21, 2014 22:50:37 GMT -5
Tough. Very tough. I think many will say 1997 for the clear and obvious reasons, which no one can deny. In 1997 the wrestling landscape changed forever and in a big way. However I do think 1996 is really the pivotal year. The year began in the same manner as the previous. The cartoonish characters, the tried-and-true angles/storylines, etc. Both companies tried new twists for the first half with nothing really catching on. However the 1996 Bash at the Beach Hogan heel turn is probably the one single event that started the change. Hogan going heel had never been done since he became the icon of wrestling. Vince in turn kept throwing sh*t at the wall hoping something would stick. Nothing really did, save for one Steve Austin. By late 1996 the whole industry was changing, leaving a cartoonish world and venturing into a more real-life feel. By the end of 1996, a new world was on the horizon and new rules were soon to be established. I can't thank you enough for this post. In order to have a successful year, you need to start somewhere. When Steve Austin delivered his Austin 3:16 promo, he didn't gain much traction right out of the gate. When Hulk Hogan made his heel turn two weeks later at the Bash at the Beach, it changed the industry forever. I can tell from watching WCW religiously at the time, I didn't see Hogan's heel turn coming. I don't think many people did at the time. If Scott Hall and Kevin Nash didn't jump ship to WCW, I highly doubt we would have seen the boom period of the '90's. Some people here romanticize 1997 because that was when they became full-fledged fans of wrestling. The truth is, the stuff we saw in 1997 was due to what we saw in 1995 and 1996. The WWF had to take an excessively long flight to get to seeing the profits they were looking for. I will say this again and again, the wrestling industry is designed to have its low and high points. Business wise, 1997 was when business hit a low. Look at the buyrate that WrestleMania 13 received. Business didn't begin rebounding to the latter half of 1997. If you want to hear how bad McMahon needed to change the business around should listen to Vince Russo on Steve Austin's podcast. The WWF had to make a ton of stops on the train to making business hot and profitable again. In 1997, they made a ton of stops. At some point, the train derailed and got back on track. Once they got back on track to making business a success got started in the Summer of '97. The USA/Canada storyline was well done and everything Bret Hart did was gold. The changes Bret Hart did began in late-'96 during his program with Steve Austin. The stuff we witnessed in 1997 got started as a result of WCW allowing Hogan to turn heel and ignite interest back into professional wrestling. I'll be the person to argue something other than the phenomenally amazing 1997. 1992. McMahon gets put on trial for steroid distribution. The company is forced to move away from the roid heads of the 1980s like Hogan, Warrior, Savage and literally every other wrestler and the give the ball to the "smaller" wrestlers who don't "look" like they do the gas like HBK and Hart. That never happens, we would probably be watching muscle bound maniacs finishing matches off with press slams. There also would be no screw job (Hart would never hold the WWF title), no Mr. McMahon character...... All I have to say is what we saw in 1996 and 1997 was a chain reaction that got started as a result of the steroid trial which ended in 1994. |
|
|
|
Post by The Yes Man on Jul 22, 2014 10:01:54 GMT -5
1997, no doubt about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by LeighD on Jul 25, 2014 5:44:09 GMT -5
Tough. Very tough. I think many will say 1997 for the clear and obvious reasons, which no one can deny. In 1997 the wrestling landscape changed forever and in a big way. However I do think 1996 is really the pivotal year. The year began in the same manner as the previous. The cartoonish characters, the tried-and-true angles/storylines, etc. Both companies tried new twists for the first half with nothing really catching on. However the 1996 Bash at the Beach Hogan heel turn is probably the one single event that started the change. Hogan going heel had never been done since he became the icon of wrestling. Vince in turn kept throwing sh*t at the wall hoping something would stick. Nothing really did, save for one Steve Austin. By late 1996 the whole industry was changing, leaving a cartoonish world and venturing into a more real-life feel. By the end of 1996, a new world was on the horizon and new rules were soon to be established. I can't thank you enough for this post. In order to have a successful year, you need to start somewhere. When Steve Austin delivered his Austin 3:16 promo, he didn't gain much traction right out of the gate. When Hulk Hogan made his heel turn two weeks later at the Bash at the Beach, it changed the industry forever. I can tell from watching WCW religiously at the time, I didn't see Hogan's heel turn coming. I don't think many people did at the time. If Scott Hall and Kevin Nash didn't jump ship to WCW, I highly doubt we would have seen the boom period of the '90's. Some people here romanticize 1997 because that was when they became full-fledged fans of wrestling. The truth is, the stuff we saw in 1997 was due to what we saw in 1995 and 1996. The WWF had to take an excessively long flight to get to seeing the profits they were looking for. I will say this again and again, the wrestling industry is designed to have its low and high points. Business wise, 1997 was when business hit a low. Look at the buyrate that WrestleMania 13 received. Business didn't begin rebounding to the latter half of 1997. If you want to hear how bad McMahon needed to change the business around should listen to Vince Russo on Steve Austin's podcast. The WWF had to make a ton of stops on the train to making business hot and profitable again. In 1997, they made a ton of stops. At some point, the train derailed and got back on track. Once they got back on track to making business a success got started in the Summer of '97. The USA/Canada storyline was well done and everything Bret Hart did was gold. The changes Bret Hart did began in late-'96 during his program with Steve Austin. The stuff we witnessed in 1997 got started as a result of WCW allowing Hogan to turn heel and ignite interest back into professional wrestling. You're welcome. I don't disagree with people saying how great and revolutionary 1997 was for the industry. However to sum it up, if 1997 was a dinner party, 1996 was the cooking, prepping, cleaning, etc that was need for the event to happen. |
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 2, 2024 15:13:03 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 10:08:14 GMT -5
I can't thank you enough for this post. In order to have a successful year, you need to start somewhere. When Steve Austin delivered his Austin 3:16 promo, he didn't gain much traction right out of the gate. When Hulk Hogan made his heel turn two weeks later at the Bash at the Beach, it changed the industry forever. I can tell from watching WCW religiously at the time, I didn't see Hogan's heel turn coming. I don't think many people did at the time. If Scott Hall and Kevin Nash didn't jump ship to WCW, I highly doubt we would have seen the boom period of the '90's. Some people here romanticize 1997 because that was when they became full-fledged fans of wrestling. The truth is, the stuff we saw in 1997 was due to what we saw in 1995 and 1996. The WWF had to take an excessively long flight to get to seeing the profits they were looking for. I will say this again and again, the wrestling industry is designed to have its low and high points. Business wise, 1997 was when business hit a low. Look at the buyrate that WrestleMania 13 received. Business didn't begin rebounding to the latter half of 1997. If you want to hear how bad McMahon needed to change the business around should listen to Vince Russo on Steve Austin's podcast. The WWF had to make a ton of stops on the train to making business hot and profitable again. In 1997, they made a ton of stops. At some point, the train derailed and got back on track. Once they got back on track to making business a success got started in the Summer of '97. The USA/Canada storyline was well done and everything Bret Hart did was gold. The changes Bret Hart did began in late-'96 during his program with Steve Austin. The stuff we witnessed in 1997 got started as a result of WCW allowing Hogan to turn heel and ignite interest back into professional wrestling. You're welcome. I don't disagree with people saying how great and revolutionary 1997 was for the industry. However to sum it up, if 1997 was a dinner party, 1996 was the cooking, prepping, cleaning, etc that was need for the event to happen. Exactly. That's why I went 1996 too. |
|
