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Post by hulkhogancollector on Aug 30, 2014 13:12:07 GMT -5
We The People Podcastat 16:40 mark of podcast episode WTP1003: Jesse Ventura defends Hulk Hogan over comments Stone Cold made claiming to be the "bigger star" Jesse states Vince says "alot" of things and Austin would not be who he was without Hulk Hogan whose popularity built the WWE.
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Post by marino13 on Aug 30, 2014 14:15:01 GMT -5
Wait.... Jesse Ventura is agreeing with Hulk Hogan!? All I've ever known is a lie.
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Post by rustyy on Aug 30, 2014 14:17:55 GMT -5
And Hogan wouldn't be anything without those before him. That's a horrible way to say he's better.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Aug 30, 2014 14:18:28 GMT -5
"Hogan was there first" isn't really an argument-winner, though. Sure, Austin would not be who he was without Hulk Hogan. But Hulk Hogan would not have been who he was without Bruno Sammartino, etc etc. None of them would have been where they are if Molecule #47854 hadn't bonded with Molecule #125490 billions of years ago. That doesn't make Molecule #47854 the biggest star.
The reality is that Hogan had way more longevity as a top star, and Austin had a way higher peak than Hogan. It's just a matter of preference.
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Aug 30, 2014 14:30:34 GMT -5
I have to agree.......who knows where the business would be without Hogan. But then again who knows if the company would still be around without Austin.
I'd say they are both equal. They certainly have their own category in the business. They will forever be the two biggest stars in this industry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 18:56:12 GMT -5
Yeah its a circular argument.......there's no real winner here IMO.
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Post by Mox on Aug 30, 2014 19:33:43 GMT -5
It's absolutely disrespectful to claim Austin is in the same league as Hogan. I can't and WON'T with the attitude marks.
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Tyler Black
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the former #1 Tyler Black fan/Tyler F'n Black
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Post by Tyler Black on Aug 30, 2014 20:04:17 GMT -5
It's absolutely disrespectful to claim Austin is in the same league as Hogan. I can't and WON'T with the attitude marks. How is Austin not in the same league as Hogan? Without hogan there is no Austin, but without Austin there is no WWF they go under in 1997 wcw goes under in 2001 and were all stuck watching Indy wrestling on the internet because there is no major wrestling company on tv
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Post by Yambag Jones on Aug 30, 2014 20:42:02 GMT -5
I could not care less about what either Hogan or Ventura have to say. Both are fools.
That said, Hogan's the bigger star.
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Post by cordless2016 on Aug 30, 2014 21:00:16 GMT -5
There would be no Hogan or Austin without Vince...and there would be no Vince w/out Vince Sr.... and we can keep going and going.
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Falconsinclair
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Post by Falconsinclair on Aug 30, 2014 22:59:27 GMT -5
Plan and simple the WWE wouldn't be a fraction of what it is today without BOTH Vince McMahon & Hulk Hogan.
Bruno was the biggest star in the NORTHEASTERN Territory that the WWE had when Vince Sr ran things.
Vince McMahon took that small Northeastern Territory and ran on the popularity that Hogan had coming off or Rocky III, plus the national exposure Vince got by pairing with MTV and other networks. The popularity of Hogan during the 80's easily eclipses the 4-5 year run that Austin had. In the 80's the WWE was EVERYWHERE. Rating weren't as big of a deal back then as there were only a few Television networks, compared to the dozens upon dozens that have come and gone since the 90's.
Sure WCW came close to possibly putting Vince McMahon out of business, but he was saved more by Mike Tyson than Steve Austin. The Tyson deal brought the WWE some very much needed main stream attention during a time they desperately needed it. That main stream attention also brought back a lot of casual fans who had gone over to the WCW side of the war because WCW had the names they knew (Hogan/Savage/etc).
When those casual fans saw that WWE was producing a higher quality program that had multiple levels of storytelling, where as WCW was always WCW v NWO with some random cruiserweight matches thrown in, they stayed and brought there friends with them. If you follow the entire history of the WCW v WWE war (not just the Monday Night part) you can see that the WWE always had a long term vision while WCW always seemed to throw a tonne of crap up against the wall just to see what would stick.
WCW's biggest problem was always Time Warner. Sure Ted Turner wanted to own a Wrasslin company. Sadly he didn't have the passion the McMahon's have when it comes to actually running said wrestling company. After Turner bought out Jim Crokett WCW had NUMEROUS executives in charge and when things started to south during the Monday Night Wars they once again fired the man at the top and then went threw several more department heads before ultimately folding.
When your opponent is putting in 100+ hours a week to your 40 max then the competition is eventually going not only come up with original idea they are going to eventually blow you away. That is what happened during the Monday Night War.
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Jamal
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Post by Jamal on Aug 30, 2014 23:38:26 GMT -5
It's absolutely disrespectful to claim Austin is in the same league as Hogan. I can't and WON'T with the attitude marks.
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RWF
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Post by RWF on Aug 31, 2014 0:25:59 GMT -5
"Hogan was there first" isn't really an argument-winner, though. Sure, Austin would not be who he was without Hulk Hogan. But Hulk Hogan would not have been who he was without Bruno Sammartino, etc etc. None of them would have been where they are if Molecule #47854 hadn't bonded with Molecule #125490 billions of years ago. That doesn't make Molecule #47854 the biggest star. The reality is that Hogan had way more longevity as a top star, and Austin had a way higher peak than Hogan. It's just a matter of preference. Austin did NOT have a way higher peak than Hogan. That's just absurd. This isn't even an argument. Hogan drew higher ratings, sold more tickets, etc. The only thing that Austin "won" on was higher gates (thanks to inflated ticket prices that they didn't do in the 80's) and merchandise (because they made 500 Austin shirts as opposed to Hogan's handful of shirts) and when you level those out, Hogan clearly wins out. Not to mention Hogan's face and heel runs in WCW and AWA, which were also huge successes in their own right. Austin, with the help of the Rock, had a nice little run at the top, but it in no fashion compares to Hogan's in any way. The entire Austin being the "biggest" is a complete fallacy manufactured in the Attitude Era by WWE revisionists.
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hb2k4life
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Post by hb2k4life on Aug 31, 2014 0:52:00 GMT -5
"Hogan was there first" isn't really an argument-winner, though. Sure, Austin would not be who he was without Hulk Hogan. But Hulk Hogan would not have been who he was without Bruno Sammartino, etc etc. None of them would have been where they are if Molecule #47854 hadn't bonded with Molecule #125490 billions of years ago. That doesn't make Molecule #47854 the biggest star. The reality is that Hogan had way more longevity as a top star, and Austin had a way higher peak than Hogan. It's just a matter of preference. Austin did NOT have a way higher peak than Hogan. That's just absurd. This isn't even an argument. Hogan drew higher ratings, sold more tickets, etc. The only thing that Austin "won" on was higher gates (thanks to inflated ticket prices that they didn't do in the 80's) and merchandise (because they made 500 Austin shirts as opposed to Hogan's handful of shirts) and when you level those out, Hogan clearly wins out. Not to mention Hogan's face and heel runs in WCW and AWA, which were also huge successes in their own right. Austin, with the help of the Rock, had a nice little run at the top, but it in no fashion compares to Hogan's in any way. The entire Austin being the "biggest" is a complete fallacy manufactured in the Attitude Era by WWE revisionists. Please don't forget the game changing impact Hogan had when he joined TNA! Biggest star ever... nope
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Aug 31, 2014 0:54:55 GMT -5
The reality is that Hogan had way more longevity as a top star, and Austin had a way higher peak than Hogan. It's just a matter of preference. Very well said. If this was the tail end of the attitude era, I would have said Austin would emerge as a higher peak and logevity as a bigger star. HOWEVER, as much as I hate to admit, not only has Hogan kept himself in the wrestling world and some main stream sportlight.....he continues to draw no matter what his role. Austin has kind of faded away for a bit and peaks his head out every once in a while. That being said....THE ROCK is the biggest name to come out of professional wrestling, as he is box office in Hollywood and still continues to draw big numbers in wrestling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 0:59:33 GMT -5
Austin did NOT have a way higher peak than Hogan. That's just absurd. This isn't even an argument. Hogan drew higher ratings, sold more tickets, etc. The only thing that Austin "won" on was higher gates (thanks to inflated ticket prices that they didn't do in the 80's) and merchandise (because they made 500 Austin shirts as opposed to Hogan's handful of shirts) and when you level those out, Hogan clearly wins out. Not to mention Hogan's face and heel runs in WCW and AWA, which were also huge successes in their own right. Austin, with the help of the Rock, had a nice little run at the top, but it in no fashion compares to Hogan's in any way. The entire Austin being the "biggest" is a complete fallacy manufactured in the Attitude Era by WWE revisionists. Please don't forget the game changing impact Hogan had when he joined TNA! Biggest star ever... nope TNA produces a bad wrestling product. Austin wouldn't be able to revive the company either. RWF is right on the money with Austin selling more merchandise and drawing higher gates. Austin had the benefit of inflated ticket prices and a more extensive line of merchandise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 1:09:19 GMT -5
It's absolutely disrespectful to claim Austin is in the same league as Hogan. I can't and WON'T with the attitude marks. How is Austin not in the same league as Hogan? Without hogan there is no Austin, but without Austin there is no WWF they go under in 1997 wcw goes under in 2001 and were all stuck watching Indy wrestling on the internet because there is no major wrestling company on tv ...because that's the only possible outcome to the situation.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Aug 31, 2014 1:12:54 GMT -5
Austin did NOT have a way higher peak than Hogan. Sure -- except in the real world, where he did. I can appreciate the weird tendency to blindly stick up for the era you're more into, but in reality, Hogan had more years drawing huge money than anyone, but he never had a year where he drew anywhere near the money that Austin did in 98 and 99. Tickets, merchandise, pay-per-views, Austin was a phenomenon like wrestling had never seen before.
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Falconsinclair
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Post by Falconsinclair on Aug 31, 2014 1:23:15 GMT -5
Austin did NOT have a way higher peak than Hogan. Sure -- except in the real world, where he did. I can appreciate the weird tendency to blindly stick up for the era you're more into, but in reality, Hogan had more years drawing huge money than anyone, but he never had a year where he drew anywhere near the money that Austin did in 98 and 99. Tickets, merchandise, pay-per-views, Austin was a phenomenon like wrestling had never seen before. You factor in inflation Hogan is still WAY ahead of Austin in every single category. Autin NEVER once came close to drawing 93,000+ to a single event. Hogan was a phenom in his hay day, same as Austin. But Austin's gate numbers were no where near what Hogan was drawing. Hogan was drawing in thousands without the benefit of several hours of live television each and every week. Hogan also drew some of the biggest numbers in Professional Wrestling History in the days before PPV. Hell the Big Event in Toronto, which drew 67,000+ to an aging Exhibition Place in Toronto was long before the days of PPV. Austin had the benefit of coming into a well oiled machine that Vince set in place with the help of Hogan as the main draw. Quite simply without Hogan the WWE would probably be one of several smaller territories as those days probably would never have ended.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 1:36:54 GMT -5
Austin did NOT have a way higher peak than Hogan. Sure -- except in the real world, where he did. I can appreciate the weird tendency to blindly stick up for the era you're more into, but in reality, Hogan had more years drawing huge money than anyone, but he never had a year where he drew anywhere near the money that Austin did in 98 and 99. Tickets, merchandise, pay-per-views, Austin was a phenomenon like wrestling had never seen before. I agree with you a lot of the time, but you're not factoring in inflation. It's like saying that Avatar was more successful than Star Wars because it made more money. It did make more money, but it didn't sell as many tickets, therefore the tickets it did sell were higher. Austin never drew crowds like Hogan did in the mid-80's. Austin never had one Wrestlemania III like moment where as Hogan had several events that drew insane crowds. Furthermore, Hogan did not have traditional PPV at the height of his drawing power, he had closed circuit television. So people would go to arenas or movie theaters and pay to watch Hogan wrestle on a big screen. I don't think Austin could have ever done that. Without the ability to push a button and watch the show from the comfort of the buyer's home, I think Austin's drawing power takes a tremendous hit.
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