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Post by Evil Abed on Sept 24, 2014 14:44:17 GMT -5
Now that title may sound crazy but hear me out for a second. I was reading a Sheamus interview online about how he felt about the brand split ending and how guys like him and Bryan wouldnt be where they are today if there was no split. He also went on to mention how when Bryan went down with an injury Roman stepped up, and now that Roman is injured someone else will step up. My question is to do you guys think that injuries to top stars/absences of stars are the only way WWE knows how to make new stars nowadays? Look at a few examples.
1993-1995 Hogan and Savage leave for WCW, leaving Vince with few top stars forcing him to push guys like Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramon, Diesel, Bret, etc...
1996-1998 Diesel, Razor, Bret leave for WCW, forcing WWE to push Austin, Rock, Triple H, among others
1999-2000 Austin and Taker go down with injuries, causing WWE to push Jericho, Benoit, Angle, Eddie, etc....
2004-2005 Lesnar, Goldberg, Austin, Rock and others leave the company leaving the door open for Cena, Orton, Batista, Benjamin, even JBL to become champion
are we currently in a similar phase?
With Roman and Bryan injured now probably until 2015 at the earliest, is WWE now forced to start making new stars to save a roster depleted of star power? I feel like this could be the golden opportunity for guys like Ziggler, Cesaro, Ambrose, Rollins, Wyatt to be pushed to the moon.
To me WWE's golden periods are just when their big stars return from injury mixing in with the stars that they were forced to make while those guys were hurt.
IMO, even though I don't wish injuries and especially career/life threatening injuries upon anyone, I think its necessary from time to time to put the best product out there that you can.
Thoughts?
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Post by marino13 on Sept 24, 2014 14:52:18 GMT -5
Sure, it can be. It all depends on how WWE handles it. Will they use this opportunity to build up Ambrose, Sheamus, or Cesaro or will the use it to get Cena & Orton a few more title victories? Will they use it to mix things up or will they rely on old faithfuls to get them by?
I pray they mix things up and get us some fresh match ups for the next few months.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 14:55:52 GMT -5
I suppose I can be.
But let's take Bryan, WWE nearly took a year building him up for his massive Mania match, he defeated 3 very much established guys!!...and then he gets injured,it's almost like it was a build up to nothing, so in instances like that, it's bad.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Sept 24, 2014 15:00:25 GMT -5
Sure, it can be. It all depends on how WWE handles it. Will they use this opportunity to build up Ambrose, Sheamus, or Cesaro or will the use it to get Cena & Orton a few more title victories? Will they use it to mix things up or will they rely on old faithfuls to get them by? I pray they mix things up and get us some fresh match ups for the next few months. This. Either the WWE uses the time to create more legit stars, or they go the status quo route and Cena cracks 17 World Titles. |
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Post by sitruC on Sept 24, 2014 15:08:25 GMT -5
It more of a build a person up so the injured star has someone to beat upon returning imo, but yes breaks are necessary in all jobs and whilst bad, injuries can lead to good product.
It's like the saying, you never realise what you have until it's gone. Imagine if Cena got injured now, I think Vince would be livid.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Sept 24, 2014 15:09:29 GMT -5
Potentially, yes. It's all about how creative handles it. While I'm never happy when someone is injured, but it's neat to see talent rise to the occasion and shoulder the load. Again though, it depends on what creative does.
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Post by @Sweetbob on Sept 24, 2014 15:20:33 GMT -5
It appears that 80% of your examples are just people leaving. Your injury example was (for me) a dead period in WWE. I don't think it really pushed its popularity. It was just guys from WCW coming over and facing new guys.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 15:28:06 GMT -5
I think WWE going into panic mode and getting out of it's coast setting is what's best honestly. Like with Cena, he is their safety net. He is the guy they can just put the title on and be safe. Well, what if Cena is forced to retire? Who does WWE have to step up? The only other established main eventers they have are Sheamus and Orton at this point. The rest have faltered too much and would need rebuilding. WWE HAS to start building more people. I know they were trying with Bryan and Reigns, but if Cena had no other choice to retire tomorrow, they'd have no one.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Sept 24, 2014 16:04:04 GMT -5
Wrestling has only ever really built new stars when forced to. Reigns' injury moves Ambrose to the #2 babyface spot, but who takes #3 and gets all the TV time that would have been Ambrose's if he was still #3? Probably Big Show, but it would be nice if it was someone new. There really isn't anyone who seems even close to the level of Cena, Reigns and Ambrose though -- that's partly down to the wrestlers themselves and partly down to the way WWE books the midcard to be so bland and meaningless. I think WWE going into panic mode and getting out of it's coast setting is what's best honestly. Like with Cena, he is their safety net. He is the guy they can just put the title on and be safe. Well, what if Cena is forced to retire? Who does WWE have to step up? The only other established main eventers they have are Sheamus and Orton at this point. The rest have faltered too much and would need rebuilding. WWE HAS to start building more people. I know they were trying with Bryan and Reigns, but if Cena had no other choice to retire tomorrow, they'd have no one. Sheamus is nowhere near an established main eventer at this stage, and he never was -- his failure to reach that point was the key reason the brand split ended. He's basically in the same category as The Miz and Jack Swagger, former world champions who fell back into the midcard. Hopefully they will build Sheamus back up though, because he's awesome. I'd like to see him take the #3 spot. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 16:06:23 GMT -5
Wrestling has only ever really built new stars when forced to. Reigns' injury moves Ambrose to the #2 babyface spot, but who takes #3 and gets all the TV time that would have been Ambrose's if he was still #3? Probably Big Show, but it would be nice if it was someone new. There really isn't anyone who seems even close to the level of Cena, Reigns and Ambrose though -- that's partly down to the wrestlers themselves and partly down to the way WWE books the midcard to be so bland and meaningless. I think WWE going into panic mode and getting out of it's coast setting is what's best honestly. Like with Cena, he is their safety net. He is the guy they can just put the title on and be safe. Well, what if Cena is forced to retire? Who does WWE have to step up? The only other established main eventers they have are Sheamus and Orton at this point. The rest have faltered too much and would need rebuilding. WWE HAS to start building more people. I know they were trying with Bryan and Reigns, but if Cena had no other choice to retire tomorrow, they'd have no one. Sheamus is nowhere near an established main eventer at this stage, and he never was -- his failure to reach that point was the key reason the brand split ended. He's basically in the same category as The Miz and Jack Swagger, former world champions who fell back into the midcard. Hopefully they will build Sheamus back up though, because he's awesome. I'd like to see him take the #3 spot. Ah. Thanks for correcting me, I didn't watch too much wrestling around 2010-2011, so I wasn't sure. Still, yes, Sheamus has an extremely unique look and is a fantastic wrestler. If he just spices up his character a little bit and is built back up, he can easily cement himself as WWE's next top star. |
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Sept 24, 2014 16:09:36 GMT -5
Still, yes, Sheamus has an extremely unique look and is a fantastic wrestler. If he just spices up his character a little bit and is built back up, he can easily cement himself as WWE's next top star. I don't think he'll reach that top of the mountain point, sadly... He's only a year younger than Cena. I feel like WWE considers Sheamus/Barrett/Ziggler/Kofi/Miz etc to be a failed generation and is looking solely at the guys like Shield and Bray Wyatt to be the top stars carrying the company forward. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 16:16:04 GMT -5
Still, yes, Sheamus has an extremely unique look and is a fantastic wrestler. If he just spices up his character a little bit and is built back up, he can easily cement himself as WWE's next top star. I don't think he'll reach that top of the mountain point, sadly... He's only a year younger than Cena. I feel like WWE considers Sheamus/Barrett/Ziggler/Kofi/Miz etc to be a failed generation and is looking solely at the guys like Shield and Bray Wyatt to be the top stars carrying the company forward. That's a very good point actually. I mean, I have no problem with any of the Shield or Wyatt being top dogs, but that doesn't mean guys like Sheamus should be pushed to the side. Hmm. Guess we'll see what WWE does next. Seems like they are putting more faith in Ambrose recently. |
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Post by The Yes Man on Sept 24, 2014 16:22:05 GMT -5
Still, yes, Sheamus has an extremely unique look and is a fantastic wrestler. If he just spices up his character a little bit and is built back up, he can easily cement himself as WWE's next top star. I don't think he'll reach that top of the mountain point, sadly... He's only a year younger than Cena. I feel like WWE considers Sheamus/Barrett/Ziggler/Kofi/Miz etc to be a failed generation and is looking solely at the guys like Shield and Bray Wyatt to be the top stars carrying the company forward. The failed generation thing is a very good point, considering about 3-4 years ago everyone always said they were going to be World Champions in a year it two, and here we are and none of them were, and if they were the dropped down the ladder quick. |
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DOD_Figures
Mid-Carder
Joined on: May 18, 2004 21:27:29 GMT -5
Posts: 234
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Post by DOD_Figures on Sept 24, 2014 17:27:24 GMT -5
I don't think he'll reach that top of the mountain point, sadly... He's only a year younger than Cena. I feel like WWE considers Sheamus/Barrett/Ziggler/Kofi/Miz etc to be a failed generation and is looking solely at the guys like Shield and Bray Wyatt to be the top stars carrying the company forward. That's a very good point actually. I mean, I have no problem with any of the Shield or Wyatt being top dogs, but that doesn't mean guys like Sheamus should be pushed to the side. Hmm. Guess we'll see what WWE does next. Seems like they are putting more faith in Ambrose recently. Love the manson sig dude. Sorry, completely off topic. |
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Sept 24, 2014 21:14:36 GMT -5
I notice that many people here fail to mention the longevity in the industry. There is little to no upside in positioning guys like Sheamus, Cesaro, and even The Miz as top attractions. At this juncture, Cesaro is damaged goods, Sheamus is close to being in the twilight of his career, and The Miz was meant to be a mid-card guy. There is a reason why Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, and Bray Wyatt are the guys the WWE is going to invest on. Longevity is one of the main factors why John Cena and Randy Orton have had the run they had. The WWE built them as top attractions when both men were in their early to mid 20's.
The real question should be who are the guys who will be main eventing WrestleMania when guys like Orton and Cena aren't around anymore? You don't have to answer because [n]NOBODY[/b] knows. Jim Ross mentioned on his podcast recently that when he signed John Cena, he told Vince McMahon he just hired somebody who would be main eventing WrestleMania in five years. @monoxide23, the WWE has been in panic mode for years now. That is why they have been giving Cena so many world championship reigns over the last five years. That is one of the reasons why the WWE is too comfortable with being in status-quo. The WWE is taking advantage of Cena's reliability in a bad way. When Cena decides to retire, the WWE better have multiple top attractions in place beforehand. Otherwise, the WWE is ****ed big time.
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Mr Wrestling Jr.
Main Eventer
Joined on: Sept 6, 2010 7:07:35 GMT -5
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Post by Mr Wrestling Jr. on Sept 25, 2014 4:55:20 GMT -5
I don't think he'll reach that top of the mountain point, sadly... He's only a year younger than Cena. I feel like WWE considers Sheamus/Barrett/Ziggler/Kofi/Miz etc to be a failed generation and is looking solely at the guys like Shield and Bray Wyatt to be the top stars carrying the company forward. The failed generation thing is a very good point, considering about 3-4 years ago everyone always said they were going to be World Champions in a year it two, and here we are and none of them were, and if they were the dropped down the ladder quick.I actually remember watching an episode of SmackDown! in 2009 and thinking it would be odd to see Ziggler, Morrison, Miz, Bourne, and a few others in the main event scene and winning World Titles in a few years. Sadly it's about 5 years later and nothing has really changed in the main event scene. |
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weaseltv
Main Eventer
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Post by weaseltv on Sept 25, 2014 5:14:27 GMT -5
The failed generation thing is a very good point, considering about 3-4 years ago everyone always said they were going to be World Champions in a year it two, and here we are and none of them were, and if they were the dropped down the ladder quick.I actually remember watching an episode of SmackDown! in 2009 and thinking it would be odd to see Ziggler, Morrison, Miz, Bourne, and a few others in the main event scene and winning World Titles in a few years. Sadly it's about 5 years later and nothing has really changed in the main event scene. I don't know... I wouldn't be as harsh to say it's a failed generation. I would say it's more like Clayton Kershaw in baseball today and.... every other pitcher... you have Kershaw who is just at the top... and will win the Cy Young and maybe MVP even though he was injured a part of the season. he's that good and has been for a while... even though there are other pitchers out there are really good too... they may just never win a Cy young award strictly because they are pitching at a time when Kershaw is at the top.... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 5:44:33 GMT -5
I actually imagine the OP as Abed from Community saying all this too...brilliant...
I don't know if it's 'good' for the business per se', more a case of options to invest in and hopefully collaborations of creative ideas leading to a star people can get behind.
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Post by JC Motors on Sept 25, 2014 9:19:20 GMT -5
It could be good for business because other stars can get pushed
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Post by J12 on Sept 25, 2014 10:34:20 GMT -5
Sure, it can be. It all depends on how WWE handles it. Will they use this opportunity to build up Ambrose, Sheamus, or Cesaro or will the use it to get Cena & Orton a few more title victories? Will they use it to mix things up or will they rely on old faithfuls to get them by? I pray they mix things up and get us some fresh match ups for the next few months. Exactly. It can be great for the talent trying to "break through the glass ceiling" so to speak, but it can also lead to WWE hitting the panic button and returning to status quo as soon as possible. It can also be good for the guy getting injured, too. If they're stale and stagnant, an injury that keeps them off TV for a while can be a really great thing. |
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