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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 28, 2014 6:33:57 GMT -5
The full list:
Ballon d’Or nominations: Gareth Bale, Cristiano Ronaldo, Karim Benzema, Lionel Messi, Thibaut Courtois, Eden Hazard, Diego Costa, Angel di Maria, Yaya Toure, Mario Gotze, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Andres Iniesta, Toni Kroos, Philipp Lahm, Javier Mascherano, Thomas Muller, Manuel Neuer, Neymar, Paul Pogba, Sergio Ramos, Arjen Robben, James Rodriguez, Bastian Schweinsteiger
Coach of the Year nomination: Jose Mourinho, Louis van Gaal, Carlo Ancelotti, Antonio Conte, Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klinsmann, Joachim Low, Manuel Pellegrini, Alejandro Sabella, Diego Simeone
So 3 things jump out to me:
1. Suarez being excluded is a bit harsh (hehe bit)
2. If Cristiano Ronaldo doesn't win the Ballon D'Or it will be a travesty. Far and away the best candidate.
3. If Diego Simeone doesn't win the Coaches' award it will be a huge miscarriage of justice. Yes Low won the WC, but he did it with the best team and squad at the tournament. Simeone took on the ridiculous hegemony of the big two in Spain and won! He was also 30 seconds away from winning a LL-CL double that would be one of the most impressive footballing achievements of all time. He deserves this recognition.
Thoughts?
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Post by T on Oct 28, 2014 9:26:38 GMT -5
Agree with #2 and #3. Suarez being excluded isn't harsh for me. You don't want someone who does that being praised as the best footballer. A bit like Benoit and WWE (albeit not as murderous).
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Post by Scott! on Oct 28, 2014 12:55:23 GMT -5
Completely agree, Ronaldo is the only logical choice. Only one on that list I'd say should rival him for it is Neuer but I still think Ronaldo deserves it. Simeone has to get coach of the year, to win the league in the style he did with limited supplies is an incredible achievement, and nearly winning the Champions League too.
Suarez being left of is incredible harsh, but I sort of agree with Titch. He's made himself into a bit of a joke with all this biting and it's not good for the game and his reputation so I can see the purpose of it.
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Post by Ben - #6 Munchie on Oct 28, 2014 13:10:09 GMT -5
So who will the final 3 be? Obviously Messi and Ronaldo, but who will be number 3?
I'd love to see Neuer make the top 3 personally!
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Post by Dan on Oct 28, 2014 13:30:10 GMT -5
While Ronaldo will win it, Philipp Lahm should get it in my opinion this time around. Genuinely instrumental in captaining Germany to win the World Cup in Brazil, and has been the heartbeat and dictator of a Double-Winning Bayern Munich Side in centre midfield. Ronaldo had a good Year individually in terms of goals per game, but failed to win them the League, didn't deliver in the Clasico's, didn't play in the Copa Del Rey Final, was poor in the Champions League Final and albeit a poor Squad was below par in the World Cup. His form at the moment is outrageous though so will be fresh in the voters mind. Just my evaluation of his Year. It's similar with Suarez, scored a hat full of goals and was by far Liverpool's main Player, but didn't deliver any Silverware or big performances, just a great Goal record which you'd expect from Ronaldo anyway.
I'd go 1; Philipp Lahm, 2; Cristiano Ronaldo, 3; Manuel Neuer/Gareth Bale
Coach of the Year has to go to Diego Simeone, but I'm 99% sure Ancelotti will go and get it for the obvious reason. Simeone did himself no favours with his tantrum in the European Cup Final, but honestly, what he achieved last year was unbelievable. To come 1 minute away from beating Real Madrid to win the Champions League and to also win La Liga. His style of football was drilled to perfection, the mentality and organisation he got out of his Squad, every little detail. Has to win it in my eyes.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 28, 2014 14:38:37 GMT -5
While Ronaldo will win it, Philipp Lahm should get it in my opinion this time around. Genuinely instrumental in captaining Germany to win the World Cup in Brazil, and has been the heartbeat and dictator of a Double-Winning Bayern Munich Side in centre midfield. Ronaldo had a good Year individually in terms of goals per game, but failed to win them the League, didn't deliver in the Clasico's, didn't play in the Copa Del Rey Final, was poor in the Champions League Final and albeit a poor Squad was below par in the World Cup. His form at the moment is outrageous though so will be fresh in the voters mind. Just my evaluation of his Year. It's similar with Suarez, scored a hat full of goals and was by far Liverpool's main Player, but didn't deliver any Silverware or big performances, just a great Goal record which you'd expect from Ronaldo anyway. I'd go 1; Philipp Lahm, 2; Cristiano Ronaldo, 3; Manuel Neuer/Gareth Bale Coach of the Year has to go to Diego Simeone, but I'm 99% sure Ancelotti will go and get it for the obvious reason. Simeone did himself no favours with his tantrum in the European Cup Final, but honestly, what he achieved last year was unbelievable. To come 1 minute away from beating Real Madrid to win the Champions League and to also win La Liga. His style of football was drilled to perfection, the mentality and organisation he got out of his Squad, every little detail. Has to win it in my eyes. I might agree with you there if FIFA hadn't long-established their logic on this matter. Messi in 2012 was brilliant individually but his team came short; he won the award comfortably nonetheless. If we accept that logic then there's no doubt that Ronaldo deserves it this year.
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Post by Dan on Oct 28, 2014 14:59:36 GMT -5
While Ronaldo will win it, Philipp Lahm should get it in my opinion this time around. Genuinely instrumental in captaining Germany to win the World Cup in Brazil, and has been the heartbeat and dictator of a Double-Winning Bayern Munich Side in centre midfield. Ronaldo had a good Year individually in terms of goals per game, but failed to win them the League, didn't deliver in the Clasico's, didn't play in the Copa Del Rey Final, was poor in the Champions League Final and albeit a poor Squad was below par in the World Cup. His form at the moment is outrageous though so will be fresh in the voters mind. Just my evaluation of his Year. It's similar with Suarez, scored a hat full of goals and was by far Liverpool's main Player, but didn't deliver any Silverware or big performances, just a great Goal record which you'd expect from Ronaldo anyway. I'd go 1; Philipp Lahm, 2; Cristiano Ronaldo, 3; Manuel Neuer/Gareth Bale Coach of the Year has to go to Diego Simeone, but I'm 99% sure Ancelotti will go and get it for the obvious reason. Simeone did himself no favours with his tantrum in the European Cup Final, but honestly, what he achieved last year was unbelievable. To come 1 minute away from beating Real Madrid to win the Champions League and to also win La Liga. His style of football was drilled to perfection, the mentality and organisation he got out of his Squad, every little detail. Has to win it in my eyes. I might agree with you there if FIFA hadn't long-established their logic on this matter. Messi in 2012 was brilliant individually but his team came short; he won the award comfortably nonetheless. If we accept that logic then there's no doubt that Ronaldo deserves it this year. Was that not the Year he scored 96 in a single year to break the all time Record though? Slightly different. Last year Ronaldo thoroughly deserved it as not only did he score a hat full but also delivered in the big Games, won Trophies etc. Just don't think that scoring 55 odd Goals, being injured for a large part and not delivering in the Big Matches should warrant it in a Year that someone else has performed for both Club and Country as high as you can. The only thing I'll give Ronaldo in his favour though was his 17 Goals in the Champions League, so can't argue if either win it, but would like to see Lahm get acknowledged. Bale single-handedly won the Copa Del Rey against Barcelona in the Final, and was their best Player on the night in the Champions League Final and scored the crucial goal, so while Ronaldo enjoyed the large portion of the Goals, you could argue Bale wasn't in the end almost as important. On a side note would like to of seen Gabi on that list from Atletico.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 28, 2014 15:31:30 GMT -5
I might agree with you there if FIFA hadn't long-established their logic on this matter. Messi in 2012 was brilliant individually but his team came short; he won the award comfortably nonetheless. If we accept that logic then there's no doubt that Ronaldo deserves it this year. Was that not the Year he scored 96 in a single year to break the all time Record though? Slightly different. Last year Ronaldo thoroughly deserved it as not only did he score a hat full but also delivered in the big Games, won Trophies etc. Just don't think that scoring 55 odd Goals, being injured for a large part and not delivering in the Big Matches should warrant it in a Year that someone else has performed for both Club and Country as high as you can. The only thing I'll give Ronaldo in his favour though was his 17 Goals in the Champions League, so can't argue if either win it, but would like to see Lahm get acknowledged. Bale single-handedly won the Copa Del Rey against Barcelona in the Final, and was their best Player on the night in the Champions League Final and scored the crucial goal, so while Ronaldo enjoyed the large portion of the Goals, you could argue Bale wasn't in the end almost as important. On a side note would like to of seen Gabi on that list from Atletico. It was that year, but the principle is still very clear: individual brilliance transcends trophies accrued in the time period. To go back on that for Lahm or anyone other than Ronaldo would be a ridiculous case of hypocrisy. Lahm is fantastic undoubtedly, but FIFA made their bed and now they have to lie in it. Ronaldo also won the CL and scored 17 goals in the process, so its not like he won nothing at all; certainly more than Messi in 2012 or maybe even 2010 in terms of the importance of the trophy. In terms of Lahm lets not also forget that his team were absolutely humiliated by a Ronaldo-led Madrid over 2 legs in the CL - that must be considered as a major factor. The Ballon D'Or is complicated because of its lack of criteria. If you ask me it should have been: Ronaldo 08, Messi 09, Sneijder 10, Messi 11, Ronaldo 12, Ribery 13. That would be much more focused on individual brilliance as part of a team, with all those guys winning major trophies in their respective years (everyone won the CL in their years apart from 2012 where no one from that Chelsea team deserved the award). 2014 could then viably be given to either Ronaldo or a standout from the German team (Lahm, Muller, Neuer). FIFA seem to have chosen a different criteria, and from that Ronaldo is the clear choice.
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Oct 28, 2014 15:42:35 GMT -5
You got to feel if not for his incident, Suarez would have won it. Basically carried a pretty average Liverpool team to 2nd place, could have been the title if not for defensive shortcomings. Looks like Ronaldo for the second year in a row and agreed on Simone.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 29, 2014 5:20:06 GMT -5
You got to feel if not for his incident, Suarez would have won it. Basically carried a pretty average Liverpool team to 2nd place, could have been the title if not for defensive shortcomings. Looks like Ronaldo for the second year in a row and agreed on Simone. I think Ronaldo would have still won it. Suarez might have made the top 3 though.
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Post by 0,Y on Oct 29, 2014 5:34:40 GMT -5
Anything other than Cristiano Ronaldo or Manuel Neuer would be 'a ing disgrace' (Drogba legend). Messi will win though, he doesn't deserve it, didn't do anything noteworthy all year but still will get the trophy. The only logical choices are Ronaldo for being a ing machine and scoring a huge load of goals and carrying Real to win the Champions League and Copa del Rey and Neuer because there hasn't been a goalkeeper that damn good in the last 10 years. Philipp Lahm has played great all year but in the World Cup (especially in the Group stage on the CDM position) so I personally don't think he deserves it although he still had an amazing year.
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AV1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 15, 2008 9:04:59 GMT -5
Posts: 2,870
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Post by AV1 on Oct 29, 2014 7:54:03 GMT -5
I can agree with Dan on Lahm and Ronaldo but I would also like to see Neuer win it. Messi hasn't been bad this year but he hasn't met the standards he has previously met.
Would have liked to have seen Rodgers get on the coach of the year shortlist. A little bit biased in opinion but surely taking Liverpool as close to the title as he did with the squad he had is more impressive than taking Argentina to the world cup final so example.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 29, 2014 9:55:04 GMT -5
I can agree with Dan on Lahm and Ronaldo but I would also like to see Neuer win it. Messi hasn't been bad this year but he hasn't met the standards he has previously met. Would have liked to have seen Rodgers get on the coach of the year shortlist. A little bit biased in opinion but surely taking Liverpool as close to the title as he did with the squad he had is more impressive than taking Argentina to the world cup final so example. I'd sooner say Pulis for doing so well with Palace
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 29, 2014 9:58:16 GMT -5
Anything other than Cristiano Ronaldo or Manuel Neuer would be 'a ing disgrace' (Drogba legend). Messi will win though, he doesn't deserve it, didn't do anything noteworthy all year but still will get the trophy. The only logical choices are Ronaldo for being a ing machine and scoring a huge load of goals and carrying Real to win the Champions League and Copa del Rey and Neuer because there hasn't been a goalkeeper that damn good in the last 10 years. Philipp Lahm has played great all year but in the World Cup (especially in the Group stage on the CDM position) so I personally don't think he deserves it although he still had an amazing year. The journalists will always vote Messi - they had him #1 as a group last year despite clearly being Ronaldo's year, or maybe Ribery's - but the players and coaches together will likely see sense and counteract the journos. Its all so political anyway. Its a team sport, this award shouldn't really be as big as it is.
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Post by 0,Y on Oct 29, 2014 11:22:31 GMT -5
Anything other than Cristiano Ronaldo or Manuel Neuer would be 'a ing disgrace' (Drogba legend). Messi will win though, he doesn't deserve it, didn't do anything noteworthy all year but still will get the trophy. The only logical choices are Ronaldo for being a ing machine and scoring a huge load of goals and carrying Real to win the Champions League and Copa del Rey and Neuer because there hasn't been a goalkeeper that damn good in the last 10 years. Philipp Lahm has played great all year but in the World Cup (especially in the Group stage on the CDM position) so I personally don't think he deserves it although he still had an amazing year. The journalists will always vote Messi - they had him #1 as a group last year despite clearly being Ronaldo's year, or maybe Ribery's - but the players and coaches together will likely see sense and counteract the journos. Its all so political anyway. Its a team sport, this award shouldn't really be as big as it is. So true. And it's a shame really. Lionel Messi is one of the most overrated players in history, I never understood why so many people claim he is the best ever. Hopefully Ronaldo will win his second Ballon d'Or in a row (and both would be deserved)
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Post by Dan on Oct 29, 2014 11:49:13 GMT -5
The journalists will always vote Messi - they had him #1 as a group last year despite clearly being Ronaldo's year, or maybe Ribery's - but the players and coaches together will likely see sense and counteract the journos. Its all so political anyway. Its a team sport, this award shouldn't really be as big as it is. So true. And it's a shame really. Lionel Messi is one of the most overrated players in history, I never understood why so many people claim he is the best ever. Hopefully Ronaldo will win his second Ballon d'Or in a row (and both would be deserved) "Messi is one of the most overrated players in history"... Oh dear. #headsgone By the way I don't think any journo's will have him down to win it this year. He didn't meet the standards of previous years even though he's still had a fairly good year and performed at the World Cup. I'm a big Messi fan but if you evaluate his Year, he spent a lot of it being burnt out and coming back from injury, and didn't win anything. I think it was largely a transitional year for him gradually adapting his Game. If you still compare Ronaldo and Messi on Goals scored then you haven't watched the two enough over the last year or so. You'll never see Messi being as prolific as he was during that three or four year period. He's gradually becoming a deep Number 10 that picks the ball up deep and dictates and starts moves now. Ronaldo on the other hand has moved central almost like a #9 so can be as prolific as he can, a goal scoring machine. A few years ago though you could compare them on Goals scored as they both had similar roles albeit different styles.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 29, 2014 12:22:12 GMT -5
So true. And it's a shame really. Lionel Messi is one of the most overrated players in history, I never understood why so many people claim he is the best ever. Hopefully Ronaldo will win his second Ballon d'Or in a row (and both would be deserved) "Messi is one of the most overrated players in history"... Oh dear. #headsgone By the way I don't think any journo's will have him down to win it this year. He didn't meet the standards of previous years even though he's still had a fairly good year and performed at the World Cup. I'm a big Messi fan but if you evaluate his Year, he spent a lot of it being burnt out and coming back from injury, and didn't win anything. I think it was largely a transitional year for him gradually adapting his Game. If you still compare Ronaldo and Messi on Goals scored then you haven't watched the two enough over the last year or so. You'll never see Messi being as prolific as he was during that three or four year period. He's gradually becoming a deep Number 10 that picks the ball up deep and dictates and starts moves now. Ronaldo on the other hand has moved central almost like a #9 so can be as prolific as he can, a goal scoring machine. A few years ago though you could compare them on Goals scored as they both had similar roles albeit different styles. There was never a time where it was fair to compare them solely on goals. First Messi was more central & had the team built around him (as well as being in a better team) whereas Ronaldo didn't - Ronaldo still doesn't have the team built around him like Messi did but this is probably the first calendar year where we can say with absolute certainty that Real minus Ronaldo is better than Barcelona minus Messi, wheras Barca without Messi was better than Real without Ronaldo for several years beforehand (and Argentina have always been better than Portugal); as well as this Ronaldo is more central now and more forward than Messi is. Anyone who compares them on solely goals without taking in external factors at any point in their careers is a mug, pure and simple. Goals are a massive factor, and often the defining factor, but never the only factor.
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AV1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 15, 2008 9:04:59 GMT -5
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Post by AV1 on Oct 29, 2014 12:43:07 GMT -5
I can agree with Dan on Lahm and Ronaldo but I would also like to see Neuer win it. Messi hasn't been bad this year but he hasn't met the standards he has previously met. Would have liked to have seen Rodgers get on the coach of the year shortlist. A little bit biased in opinion but surely taking Liverpool as close to the title as he did with the squad he had is more impressive than taking Argentina to the world cup final so example. I'd sooner say Pulis for doing so well with Palace Although you're joking a bit, you do make a point. It's more impressive IMO for a manager to take a team that looks dead or just a poor team in general and overachieve with them than it is to get a bunch of top players to play as a team.
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Post by Dan on Oct 30, 2014 11:43:49 GMT -5
"Messi is one of the most overrated players in history"... Oh dear. #headsgone By the way I don't think any journo's will have him down to win it this year. He didn't meet the standards of previous years even though he's still had a fairly good year and performed at the World Cup. I'm a big Messi fan but if you evaluate his Year, he spent a lot of it being burnt out and coming back from injury, and didn't win anything. I think it was largely a transitional year for him gradually adapting his Game. If you still compare Ronaldo and Messi on Goals scored then you haven't watched the two enough over the last year or so. You'll never see Messi being as prolific as he was during that three or four year period. He's gradually becoming a deep Number 10 that picks the ball up deep and dictates and starts moves now. Ronaldo on the other hand has moved central almost like a #9 so can be as prolific as he can, a goal scoring machine. A few years ago though you could compare them on Goals scored as they both had similar roles albeit different styles. There was never a time where it was fair to compare them solely on goals. First Messi was more central & had the team built around him (as well as being in a better team) whereas Ronaldo didn't - Ronaldo still doesn't have the team built around him like Messi did but this is probably the first calendar year where we can say with absolute certainty that Real minus Ronaldo is better than Barcelona minus Messi, wheras Barca without Messi was better than Real without Ronaldo for several years beforehand (and Argentina have always been better than Portugal); as well as this Ronaldo is more central now and more forward than Messi is. Anyone who compares them on solely goals without taking in external factors at any point in their careers is a mug, pure and simple. Goals are a massive factor, and often the defining factor, but never the only factor. Trouble is, Barcelona may of been a better Side for Messi, but Real Madrid would of been a better side for Ronaldo, even if on paper their Players wern't as good. Ronaldo's game was built around running into wide, open space, running at Players etc. Messi's was all about control in small, tight areas with quick engineering and movement. If Ronaldo was in the Barca side that Messi was he wouldn't of been anywhere near as good as Messi was at doing what he did, and vice versa. But they were both goalscorers, where Messi eclipsed Ronaldo's goal stats for years so you could compare the two Players. Now Ronaldo has maintained being a goalscorer whereas Messi has changed his Game to being a Playmaker. It's come to a time now though where it goes down to personal preference on what you prefer in a footballer. You can definitely appreciate the period we are in and how lucky we are to have them both playing now. Ronaldo is now the pinnacle definition of a modern day physical goalscoring machine, and Messi is a supremely intelligent natural creator. It's a beauty to watch them both at this point now. For me personally I have always preferred Messi as he can see and read things that nobody else can. His intelligence and technical genius about his play is what I appreciate. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate what Ronaldo can do though, and Ronaldo has rightfully been the best in the World over the last year and a half on form.
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Post by Brunt's Left Foot on Oct 30, 2014 11:46:36 GMT -5
It's just a shame we don't have Messi creating chances for Ronaldo....
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