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Post by Hulk Who? on Dec 21, 2014 0:19:53 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's so much of a difference with those terms. It's all wrestling, little kids don't talk about watching sports entertainment. In a way, I don't think Vince has known what he wants his product to be since 92 when he gave the title to Bret. He held the same aesthetics til 94 even though the product had drastically changed, then relented and revamped the awesome classic art, themes, music etc into crap in 95. The product has no heat, the last heat I recall was Punk. Heat is Macho/Roberts or HBK/Bulldog One Night Only. There's nothing special in any of those Macho/Roberts matches at all, they're short and disappointing to be honest, but just try not to love them, you feel like the police should be involved and Savage is going to get a gun even though he's wearing a 2 foot neon feather in his neon hat. You've never seen one reverse elbow or shoulder to the ribs in the corner mean so much. Not as hot but same with the Outsiders. WCW did lots of stuff Vince could have done but didn't. Vince got put in a corner and 97, and forced to make changes I think he personally hated. Jim Ross is breaking the 'there is no world outside of WWF' like crazy on commentary in 96, 97. It seems really obvious to me in Survivor Series 96, it's not really a Vince show. It can't be said enough how much of a comeback the Attitude Era was, WWF was getting destroyed. Austin and Michaels forced their success. I can't stand all the trash talk about pre injury HBK. The Rocker Shawn Michaels would never have risen to Hulk Hogan's spot on the card if he wasn't like that, not a chance, it would have been a joke to suggest he ever would have when he was a Rocker. The more figures I get (I have like 70) the more obvious it is these aren't really all Vince's creations, he got the top stars from every territory and had a golden generation that made the company. Vince got lucky then fought hard with Austin, Rock, Angle etc, it wasn't his vision, but he was smart enough to let it flourish. This is the guy who thought Savage was too old after his feuds with Warrior, Roberts, and Flair in 91-92. That's about as clueless as it gets, and that can be said without cynicism. That said, I just claimed he didn't create all those stars, the wrestlers did, so I won't blame him for all that much of anything. Basically seems like it's up to bad ass wrestlers to tyrannize the company like Macho, Warrior, Austin, Punk. And that's what Vince wants and these good for nothing millennials can't manage. I loved tons of Vince's characters anyway like Million Dollar Man, Big Boss Man, Mr Perfect, Undertaker. I'm not interested in blaming, everything and everyone involved just seems weaker. Chew on that gibberish.
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Post by theMOESIAH on Dec 21, 2014 3:30:24 GMT -5
Good God that was long... I skimmed most of it, all I can say is the old "don't like it, don't watch it!" ...but you will anyway. I'm assuming that this comment was meant for me. I don't watch WWE programming. This past week's Raw was the first WWE show I've watched in its entirety in several years. I grew up on the WWF/E. I watched from the late 80's ask the way through the ECW relaunch. That was the last straw for me, but by that point I was DVRing Raw and watching maybe 5 minutes of a 2 hour show so I just gave up. But like I said in my [unintentionally] long winded rant, I want the WWE to do well. I want to be a fan, but it is unwatchable television. It's 90% guys standing around in spandex arguing and 10% bland, cookie cutter wrestling. Nonsense story after nonsense story that rarely has a definite ending (see Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose at Hell in a Cell) and the same 4 - 6 guys being shoved down everyone's throat despite having such a large and diverse roster*. What makes me so angry about the WWE is not the crap product, it's the fact that there's no reason for it. They've got every tool one could ever want to put on a phenomenal show. *I've been keeping up with the WWE through SiriusXM's Busted Open (a must listen for all fans) and the internet. Like I said, I want to be a fan.
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Falconsinclair
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Post by Falconsinclair on Dec 21, 2014 3:33:50 GMT -5
While I loved how great NXT "R" Evolution was, it wasn't the be all end all of Wrestling programming.
What I can't understand is how the WWE can be happy with 2.0-mid 3 ratings when they use to DOMINATE Monday Nights. The whole company is way to complacent and is need of a serious shake up. If that means that Vince McMahon finally steps down then so be it.
If I was serious investor in the company. I would be pushing for the company to take a serious look at how it produces its primary content. The WWE use to be THE cool thing to talk about, now they are trying WAY to be hard to be relevant. (I'm looking at whoever decided to have "Grumpy Cat" on Raw).
Let the commentators call the in ring action and plug the other crap during down periods, which they shouldn't have if the shows were laid out better. I don't understand why anyone would pay to go to a Smackdown taping these days when 50% of the show is Raw recaps.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 25, 2024 22:41:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 5:17:34 GMT -5
I really do not understand why people still watch the product if they despise the top guy, the writers, the plugging, the commentators, the production and anything else they can complain about.
The whole forum is autistic it seems as one minute everybody wants focus on WWE bringing in more independent wrestlers to put on "good" matches but the next minute the request is for more storylines followed by the next minute featuring pining for gimmicks which largely contradict the fact that people want all wrestlers on the roster to be generic badass heels with beards.
You're not always gonna love what you see with WWE and I'm not suggesting people should, but if you hate it that much, then you shouldn't be watching.
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Post by kingnothing ~ Hardwired... on Dec 21, 2014 7:24:18 GMT -5
I really do not understand why people still watch the product if they despise the top guy, the writers, the plugging, the commentators, the production and anything else they can complain about. The whole forum is autistic it seems as one minute everybody wants focus on WWE bringing in more independent wrestlers to put on "good" matches but the next minute the request is for more storylines followed by the next minute featuring pining for gimmicks which largely contradict the fact that people want all wrestlers on the roster to be generic badass heels with beards. You're not always gonna love what you see with WWE and I'm not suggesting people should, but if you hate it that much, then you shouldn't be watching. It is hard to argue with that logic. I think there needs to be a balance of all that you mentioned.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 21, 2014 8:28:47 GMT -5
I really do not understand why people still watch the product if they despise the top guy, the writers, the plugging, the commentators, the production and anything else they can complain about. The whole forum is autistic it seems as one minute everybody wants focus on WWE bringing in more independent wrestlers to put on "good" matches but the next minute the request is for more storylines followed by the next minute featuring pining for gimmicks which largely contradict the fact that people want all wrestlers on the roster to be generic badass heels with beards. You're not always gonna love what you see with WWE and I'm not suggesting people should, but if you hate it that much, then you shouldn't be watching. This post would work in any thread in the WWE section and still be just as awesome.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 25, 2024 22:41:46 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 9:36:13 GMT -5
I watch because I've always been a fan. I watch through the ups and downs. To me, it's good entertainment. Now honestly, I used to be at the tv as soon as Raw went on the air. Now, I usually start late to skip through the commercials and admittingly a good portion of the show. I've never been a Cena fan but I don't typically change the channel when he's on. Regardless of what I think about him he's the number one guy in the wrestling business. And to address NXT, from my point of view, it's developmental so kids aren't watching it. So obviously you're not going to see some of the silly childish things you see on WWE tv. And they perform in front of roughly the same few hundred people so it's alot easier to get over. I hear a lot of praise over the actual wrestling, which is great. But the bottom line to me is I'm a fan of professional wrestling. Always have been and always will be.
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Post by LA Times on Dec 21, 2014 13:39:27 GMT -5
NXT is praised as being better than the main product because
1) They have no sponsors
2) They have no TV executives to answer to
3) Their audience is 18-35 year old smart fans
4) They dont have to fill up a 10,000 seat arena
Raw is in a position where they have to appeal to a wider audience and get ratings, but what they do cannot please everybody
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Post by kingnothing ~ Hardwired... on Dec 21, 2014 14:46:10 GMT -5
I really do not understand why people still watch the product if they despise the top guy, the writers, the plugging, the commentators, the production and anything else they can complain about. The whole forum is autistic it seems as one minute everybody wants focus on WWE bringing in more independent wrestlers to put on "good" matches but the next minute the request is for more storylines followed by the next minute featuring pining for gimmicks which largely contradict the fact that people want all wrestlers on the roster to be generic badass heels with beards. You're not always gonna love what you see with WWE and I'm not suggesting people should, but if you hate it that much, then you shouldn't be watching. This post would work in any thread in the WWE section and still be just as awesome. Perhaps it should be copied and pasted regularly. Or linked to often at the very least.
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Post by Weemanv1 on Dec 21, 2014 15:02:00 GMT -5
lol, people going on about the forum flip-flopping again. I guess some people just can't grasp the concept of everyone having different opinions. If group A of people is pleased then group B may not be. That's why it seems like opinions change. It's really not hard to understand unless you literally don't think. The amount of people who do just complain for the sake of complaining could probably be counted on one hand.
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famdamuxwl
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Joined on: Feb 26, 2013 18:53:27 GMT -5
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Post by famdamuxwl on Dec 21, 2014 16:31:11 GMT -5
Hour 1 - Cruiserweights, Divas matches and promos Hour 2 - Midcard and promos Hour 3 - The superstars and promos
That format would make everything exciting again! Have story lines in every hour the evolve around each division.
Like the previous poster said. Make it similar to Nitro. That is how Jericho, Benoit and Guerrero got over. They had their own spotlight.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 21, 2014 16:34:45 GMT -5
Hour 1 - Cruiserweights, Divas matches and promos Hour 2 - Midcard and promos Hour 3 - The superstars and promos That format would make everything exciting again! Have story lines in every hour the evolve around each division. Like the previous poster said. Make it similar to Nitro. That is how Jericho, Benoit and Guerrero got over. They had their own spotlight. The problem is that divas matches and cruiserweights (which don't exist anymore) shouldn't be only in the first hour because that doesn't appeal to everyone. The ratings for that hour would be poop. It's best to not have a structure like that. Mix things up.
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famdamuxwl
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Joined on: Feb 26, 2013 18:53:27 GMT -5
Posts: 695
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Post by famdamuxwl on Dec 21, 2014 18:01:11 GMT -5
Hour 1 - Cruiserweights, Divas matches and promos Hour 2 - Midcard and promos Hour 3 - The superstars and promos That format would make everything exciting again! Have story lines in every hour the evolve around each division. Like the previous poster said. Make it similar to Nitro. That is how Jericho, Benoit and Guerrero got over. They had their own spotlight. The problem is that divas matches and cruiserweights (which don't exist anymore) shouldn't be only in the first hour because that doesn't appeal to everyone. The ratings for that hour would be poop. It's best to not have a structure like that. Mix things up. You make people care. The writers actually put those cruiser weights and divas into exciting story lines. Yeah cruiserweight division is gone but I would want it to come back if WWE used that format.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 21, 2014 18:02:29 GMT -5
The problem is that divas matches and cruiserweights (which don't exist anymore) shouldn't be only in the first hour because that doesn't appeal to everyone. The ratings for that hour would be poop. It's best to not have a structure like that. Mix things up. You make people care. The writers actually put those cruiser weights and divas into exciting story lines. Yeah cruiserweight division is gone but I would want it to come back if WWE used that format. That would just put a label on guys like Daniel Bryan, who shouldn't be labeled as cruiserweights.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 21, 2014 18:09:05 GMT -5
You make people care. The writers actually put those cruiser weights and divas into exciting story lines. If the writers were allowed/capable as far as writing exciting storylines, we wouldn't need to come up with silly formulas to fix the shows. Especially ones that put all the smaller wrestlers, who currently are able to fight for the three singles titles, into a cruiserweight ghetto. I don't want to see Bull Dempsey win the Intercontinental or World title over Sami Zayn because Zayn's been put in the Cruiserweight division.
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famdamuxwl
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Joined on: Feb 26, 2013 18:53:27 GMT -5
Posts: 695
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Post by famdamuxwl on Dec 21, 2014 18:19:44 GMT -5
You make people care. The writers actually put those cruiser weights and divas into exciting story lines. If the writers were allowed/capable as far as writing exciting storylines, we wouldn't need to come up with silly formulas to fix the shows. Especially ones that put all the smaller wrestlers, who currently are able to fight for the three singles titles, into a cruiserweight ghetto. I don't want to see Bull Dempsey win the Intercontinental or World title over Sami Zayn because Zayn's been put in the Cruiserweight division. I agree with you i don't want wrestlers being labeled either. However if a wrestler can prove themselves in the cruiserweight division and get super over. Then they should get a shot on the 3rd hour and go up against the superstars. Jericho wasn't ready to battle the major players when he first started off in the cruiserweight division. He got over and proved he deserve to move up to better things. Sami Zayn already proven he is ready and I would start him off on hour 2 in the midcard hour. Funny thing is that WWE will never use this idea and will continue to promote Grump the cat..... But its still fun to talk about.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 21, 2014 18:23:28 GMT -5
If the writers were allowed/capable as far as writing exciting storylines, we wouldn't need to come up with silly formulas to fix the shows. Especially ones that put all the smaller wrestlers, who currently are able to fight for the three singles titles, into a cruiserweight ghetto. I don't want to see Bull Dempsey win the Intercontinental or World title over Sami Zayn because Zayn's been put in the Cruiserweight division. I agree with you i don't want wrestlers being labeled either. However if a wrestler can prove themselves in the cruiserweight division and get super over. Then they should get a shot on the 3rd hour and go up against the superstars. Jericho wasn't ready to battle the major players when he first started off in the cruiserweight division. He got over and proved he deserve to move up to better things. Sami Zayn already proven he is ready and I would start him off on hour 2 in the midcard hour. Funny thing is that WWE will never use this idea and will continue to promote Grump the cat..... But its still fun to talk about. Grumpy the Cat was great.
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famdamuxwl
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Joined on: Feb 26, 2013 18:53:27 GMT -5
Posts: 695
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Post by famdamuxwl on Dec 21, 2014 18:27:54 GMT -5
I agree with you i don't want wrestlers being labeled either. However if a wrestler can prove themselves in the cruiserweight division and get super over. Then they should get a shot on the 3rd hour and go up against the superstars. Jericho wasn't ready to battle the major players when he first started off in the cruiserweight division. He got over and proved he deserve to move up to better things. Sami Zayn already proven he is ready and I would start him off on hour 2 in the midcard hour. Funny thing is that WWE will never use this idea and will continue to promote Grump the cat..... But its still fun to talk about. Grumpy the Cat was great. Some people may love Grumpy the cat. Just not meant for wrestling. WWE needs to become "cool" again and get people talking about it the next day at the water cooler or in the cafeteria at school. Becoming cheesy and lame is not the way to go. Make it serious like NxT. You can still add comedy, but make it smart comedy not silly. Mizdow and The miz - Smart comedy Grump the cat - cheesy The grumpy the cat youtube videos are funny... But the freakin cat is not meant for pro wrestling! Jeez lol
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 21, 2014 18:31:21 GMT -5
Grumpy the Cat was great. Some people may love Grumpy the cat. Just not meant for wrestling. WWE needs to become "cool" again and get people talking about it the next day at the water cooler or in the cafeteria at school. Becoming cheesy and lame is not the way to go. Make it serious like NxT. You can still add comedy, but make it smart comedy not silly. Mizdow and The miz - Smart comedy Grump the cat - cheesy The grumpy the cat youtube videos are funny... But the freakin cat is not meant for pro wrestling! Jeez lol But this is what pro wrestling always was. It has other forms of entertainment involved, regardless of how cheesy it is. Having appearances by random celebrities get more eyes on the product. I'm sure some fans of the Real Housewives of Atlanta tuned into see that NeNe chick when she appeared, even if they aren't wrestling fans. It helps. NXT doesn't have to do this, since their ratings don't matter. The flagship show has to include things like this. There are better choices, like Stephen Amell over Larry the Cable Guy, but still it's part of pro wrestling. It always has been and it always will be.
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famdamuxwl
Superstar
Joined on: Feb 26, 2013 18:53:27 GMT -5
Posts: 695
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Post by famdamuxwl on Dec 21, 2014 18:37:57 GMT -5
Some people may love Grumpy the cat. Just not meant for wrestling. WWE needs to become "cool" again and get people talking about it the next day at the water cooler or in the cafeteria at school. Becoming cheesy and lame is not the way to go. Make it serious like NxT. You can still add comedy, but make it smart comedy not silly. Mizdow and The miz - Smart comedy Grump the cat - cheesy The grumpy the cat youtube videos are funny... But the freakin cat is not meant for pro wrestling! Jeez lol But this is what pro wrestling always was. It has other forms of entertainment involved, regardless of how cheesy it is. Having appearances by random celebrities get more eyes on the product. I'm sure some fans of the Real Housewives of Atlanta tuned into see that NeNe chick when she appeared, even if they aren't wrestling fans. It helps. NXT doesn't have to do this, since their ratings don't matter. The flagship show has to include things like this. There are better choices, like Stephen Amell over Larry the Cable Guy, but still it's part of pro wrestling. It always has been and it always will be. Tyson - cool Rodman - cool Malone - cool Drew Carrey - cool Pete Rose - cool Cyndi - cool Celebrities done right.... Im okay with it Now they just bring them in and its just silly. Celebrities done right writing wise is fine with me. Dont just bring them on their. Make sense out of it.
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