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Post by The Yes Man on Jul 25, 2015 0:39:46 GMT -5
Bret Hart would be in a Cesaro like spot.
Shawn would be in a Dolph Ziggler spot.
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Post by Happy Pizza on Jul 25, 2015 0:56:38 GMT -5
They would be celebrated as midcarders and then swiftly turned on if they ever won the title. People are weird like that.
SHAWN ONLY HAS FIVE MOVES AND HIS OVERSELLING TAKES AWAY FROM THE MATCH.
BRET CAN'T CUT A PROMO. I'M TIRED OF HIS STALE CHARACTER BEING SHOVED DOWN MY THROAT.
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Post by kazoosandstreamers on Jul 25, 2015 1:36:32 GMT -5
Both would do just fine.
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jcjdotcom
Superstar
Joined on: Oct 23, 2005 23:26:04 GMT -5
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Post by jcjdotcom on Jul 25, 2015 6:28:58 GMT -5
Bret Hart would be in a Cesaro like spot. Shawn would be in a Dolph Ziggler spot. I think these are the best comparisons to Bret and Shawn on the current roster. As others have said, I agree that "Cena wins LOL" would be problem for them as well.
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Post by punksnotdead on Jul 25, 2015 7:57:00 GMT -5
Bret Hart would be in a Cesaro like spot. Shawn would be in a Dolph Ziggler spot. Bret Hart would be in a Daniel Bryan spot. Shawn would be in a Seth Rollins spot. I honestly think they both would have made it. The Cesaro comparison probably isn't too far off for Bret, but that's not giving him enough credit for his promo work, and I've never been high on his promo work. Shawn would have made much easier work of it. He had mega tons of charisma and was a quality talker. In 2015, both guys would have been in a way better position from a physical presentation standpoint, especially given they both survived the land of giants during their initial climbs to the top. I mean what are we talking about here? These are two of the greatest wrestlers in the history of WWE. These are the two guys that changed the entire industry from up, down, kick, punch, to actually seeing exciting matches. Why, years later, now that the industry is even more open to guys like Bret and Shawn, would they be any less successful? What they did in the mid 90s is far more impressive than anything they would be able to do in 2015. That said, WWE in 2015 wouldn't be anything like it is now without them.
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Post by The Yes Man on Jul 25, 2015 11:07:15 GMT -5
Bret Hart would be in a Cesaro like spot. Shawn would be in a Dolph Ziggler spot. Bret Hart would be in a Daniel Bryan spot. Shawn would be in a Seth Rollins spot. I honestly think they both would have made it. The Cesaro comparison probably isn't too far off for Bret, but that's not giving him enough credit for his promo work, and I've never been high on his promo work. Shawn would have made much easier work of it. He had mega tons of charisma and was a quality talker. In 2015, both guys would have been in a way better position from a physical presentation standpoint, especially given they both survived the land of giants during their initial climbs to the top. I mean what are we talking about here? These are two of the greatest wrestlers in the history of WWE. These are the two guys that changed the entire industry from up, down, kick, punch, to actually seeing exciting matches. Why, years later, now that the industry is even more open to guys like Bret and Shawn, would they be any less successful? What they did in the mid 90s is far more impressive than anything they would be able to do in 2015. That said, WWE in 2015 wouldn't be anything like it is now without them. I think part of the reason is because Bret and Shawn were really the only guys of that style in that time, and now half the roster works a similar style.
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Post by sitruC on Jul 25, 2015 12:31:27 GMT -5
Vince hates people with 2 names, so they'd be called Shawn and Bret.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 7:53:51 GMT -5
I think Michaels would have a lot of success. He had top matches in the 80's, 90's, 00's, and 10's. Always known to innovate, and work with many different folks, I think his charisma and competitiveness would get him over quickly. If there is a lot less recreational drugs backstage, it would be in Michaels favour. Bret's colour of tights wouldnt ge a problem. His wooden delivery style, and repetitive matches would get him a quick exit from the business. Social media and the IWC? Poor Bret had enough trouble with criticism, it ruined him for years...it just would have happened much sooner, to a much stronger degree. I completely disagree. I never found any of Bret's matches to be repetitive. You can watch any series of Bret vs. Perfect, Bret vs. Diesel, Bret vs. Owen or Bret vs. Diesel matches and they are all completely different from each other. He had his 5 moves of doom but so did HBK, Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Hogan, Cena, Flair and every other wrestler worth a damn. Bingo. Also if Hart & HBK got over in the 90s where size was certainly first and foremost on Vince's mind? they surely could've done it today. I know the eruption of the steroid craic in 1991 forced Vince's hand with pushing smaller guys but that faith was rewarded over and over and over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 9:39:08 GMT -5
I completely disagree. I never found any of Bret's matches to be repetitive. You can watch any series of Bret vs. Perfect, Bret vs. Diesel, Bret vs. Owen or Bret vs. Diesel matches and they are all completely different from each other. He had his 5 moves of doom but so did HBK, Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Hogan, Cena, Flair and every other wrestler worth a damn. Bingo. Also if Hart & HBK got over in the 90s where size was certainly first and foremost on Vince's mind? they surely could've done it today. I know the eruption of the steroid craic in 1991 forced Vince's hand with pushing smaller guys but that faith was rewarded over and over and over. Again. I disagree. Look at his roster when he had to put them over? Not much talent at that weightclass where he had to pick his new guy. How was his faith "rewarded over, and over and over"? Business was in the toilet, the ratings and live crowds were at a 10 year low....he forced them down our throats because he had no other option. He instantly looked to upgrade and shed himself of Bret as soon as he could. Vince didnt know what to do with him, hence letting him out of the 20 year contract...where he went to WCW who...you guessed it, didnt know what to do with him. Shawn would have went over, because he has had great matches in the last 15 years, he could stay current. There isnt a period when he didnt have main event matches..Bret hasnt. Circumstances unfortunately worked against him, but also the business passed him by. He proved that in WCW where he could have passable matches with motivated established veterans, but mostly they would consist of listless working the leg...Bret was self serving in so far as he'd make someone look good, when he knew he was eventually going over. His cache he had when Vince was over a barrel wasnt there in WCW, and his ego and spirt were so bruised, he couldnt adapt. His little 3-4 year singles run was over.
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HeelScum
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Post by HeelScum on Jul 26, 2015 10:20:36 GMT -5
Shawn would definitely get over. He literally pours charisma, not to take away from his superb wrestling skills. Bret on the other hand, just never really seemed to connect with his promos. He seemed stuff and wooden. However, in the ring he was a mat technician. Whenever he came to the ring, he got great pops. In this time, I don't think he would succeed WWE. He would flounder in the Midcard for 1-2 years, and get released. I feel like he would then go to ROH or GFW and improve his mic skills.
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Post by punksnotdead on Jul 26, 2015 10:34:07 GMT -5
Bret Hart would be in a Daniel Bryan spot. Shawn would be in a Seth Rollins spot. I honestly think they both would have made it. The Cesaro comparison probably isn't too far off for Bret, but that's not giving him enough credit for his promo work, and I've never been high on his promo work. Shawn would have made much easier work of it. He had mega tons of charisma and was a quality talker. In 2015, both guys would have been in a way better position from a physical presentation standpoint, especially given they both survived the land of giants during their initial climbs to the top. I mean what are we talking about here? These are two of the greatest wrestlers in the history of WWE. These are the two guys that changed the entire industry from up, down, kick, punch, to actually seeing exciting matches. Why, years later, now that the industry is even more open to guys like Bret and Shawn, would they be any less successful? What they did in the mid 90s is far more impressive than anything they would be able to do in 2015. That said, WWE in 2015 wouldn't be anything like it is now without them. I think part of the reason is because Bret and Shawn were really the only guys of that style in that time, and now half the roster works a similar style. HBK had, arguably, the greatest WrestleMania match of all time in 2009. It's not like HBK is that far removed from what we're considering this current generation. I don't think anyone on todays roster even does what Bret Hart did. I actually think that type of wrestler is missing in today's product. Sure, Bryan is a technical wizard, but WWE makes him work more of an under dog style than a pure technical wrestling style. Cesaro is probably the closest example we have and even he doesn't work over body parts the way Bret did. That's why I'm pulling for Chad Gable down in NXT, as he's a Kurt Angle/Bret Hart influenced performer that I feel is different than anything we're seeing on the main roster. Also though, Bret and Shawn influenced an entire generation of performers. So you say that their work is common place in today's product, but would that be the case had those guys not been around in the 90s??? It kind of becomes a chicken or the egg situation imo. How do you have half the roster wrestling a certain style, or styles, if the two guys who implemented those styles weren't around until 2015? Just playing Devil's advocate a bit with that.
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Post by k5 on Jul 26, 2015 10:43:47 GMT -5
michaels would do fine because of his athletic work rate...but bret i'm not so sure. the pace in wrestling has quickened...there's a lot less rest holds. he'd have to adapt.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jul 26, 2015 10:51:57 GMT -5
It's hard to transplant them. What version of Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels is being plonked down in today's era? If it's the mid-80s versions of them, maybe they never develop the way they did because the business is so different.
Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels succeeded because Hulk Hogan left. There was no megastar above them. When Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels cried about doing jobs and refused to lose, a lot of the time they got their way because there was no big star above them. If Dolph Ziggler and Cesaro cry about doing jobs and refuse to lose, Vince would laugh and fire them because they've got nothing on Cena and Lesnar. Jericho recommends more of the current talent should refuse to lose, but they're risking their careers doing that because they're almost all disposable.
If anybody came into NXT with the kind of attitude that Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels had in the nineties, that person probably wouldn't even make it to the main roster.
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customania
Main Eventer
HBK, Orton, Reigns, Jomo, Rollins, Triple H, Neville, Test, Rollins and Warrior are some of the best
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Post by customania on Jul 26, 2015 11:38:03 GMT -5
I think Shawn Michaels could be successful not sure about Bret.
Shawn Michaels is the greatest of all time.
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Post by "The Perfect Ten" Mizard on Jul 27, 2015 9:43:24 GMT -5
Both would job to Roman Reigns.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Jul 28, 2015 5:07:07 GMT -5
They'd be where Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan are. Let's be honest.
And, if Shawn developed the same drug problems that he did then, he'd be in TNA now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 6:33:46 GMT -5
They'd be where Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan are. Let's be honest.And, if Shawn developed the same drug problems that he did then, he'd be in TNA now. So...they both would be former multi-time world champions and one of them would've main evented Wrestlemania.
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ellisd
Main Eventer
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Post by ellisd on Jul 28, 2015 12:25:39 GMT -5
I think they would be more over now then they were back then. Agreed. The smaller technical wrestler is probably more accepted now than ever...thanks to the work of Bret and Shawn in the 90s. Guerrero, Benoit, Jericho, Bryan, Angle, etc. all came after those two guys. True, but if they were debuting now.....would that mean they were never around in the 90s to pave the way for the smaller wrestlers? And how would that effect the careers of Eddie, Jericho, Benoit, etc? This could have serious repercusions on our current timeline. Sorry....that's my inner Back to the Future fan talking.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jul 28, 2015 12:33:02 GMT -5
With HHH booking, yes.
With Vince booking, no.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Jul 28, 2015 13:17:14 GMT -5
They'd be where Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan are. Let's be honest.And, if Shawn developed the same drug problems that he did then, he'd be in TNA now. So...they both would be former multi-time world champions and one of them would've main evented Wrestlemania. Absolutely. Massively over with the crowd but only ever on the outskirts of the main event scene because, despite their talent and fans, they don't fit the mould of a WWE Superstar on paper. I will point out at this stage that Shawn Michaels is my favourite wrestler of all time, and I love him very much. But I'm aware that, had he debuted twenty years later, he might not have had the same career.
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