bige95
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Post by bige95 on Jun 20, 2016 19:22:40 GMT -5
I think he's the best player I've ever seen. hes up there, for me at least, with Shaq and Kobe see i dont know if its fair to compare shag and lebron...or centers and other positions just because there expectee to do different things..but man were all three if them fun to watch
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Post by Tim of thee on Jun 20, 2016 19:55:21 GMT -5
hes up there, for me at least, with Shaq and Kobe see i dont know if its fair to compare shag and lebron...or centers and other positions just because there expectee to do different things..but man were all three if them fun to watch I was just talking about sheer impact on the game.
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bige95
Mid-Carder
Joined on: May 3, 2016 7:25:48 GMT -5
Posts: 176
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Post by bige95 on Jun 20, 2016 19:56:24 GMT -5
see i dont know if its fair to compare shag and lebron...or centers and other positions just because there expectee to do different things..but man were all three if them fun to watch I was just talking about sheer impact on the game. i get what your saying and in that shaq was completley dominate in his prime
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Post by Nivro™ on Jun 20, 2016 20:03:29 GMT -5
Gotta cement Lebron James in as the best all time 3 to ever play. We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. MJ & Magic, IMO, are hands down #1 and #2 and nobody is even close to passing them yet. There's still a laundry list of players you could make arguments for over Lebanon. End of career I think he'll be at least Top 10...Maybe Top 5 but I dont see him being able to break that top 3, at least not yet.
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Post by Tim of thee on Jun 20, 2016 20:09:14 GMT -5
Gotta cement Lebron James in as the best all time 3 to ever play. We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. MJ & Magic, IMO, are hands down #1 and #2 and nobody is even close to passing them yet. There's still a laundry list of players you could make arguments for over Lebanon. End of career I think he'll be at least Top 10...Maybe Top 5 but I dont see him being able to break that top 3, at least not yet. I meant positional 3
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Post by The Champ is Here! on Jun 21, 2016 19:57:59 GMT -5
Gotta cement Lebron James in as the best all time 3 to ever play. I'd take Larry Legend over him all day and twice on sunday They have very similar skill sets, except Lebron is a bit better going to the hole, but Larry is possibly the best shooter ever. And Larry can pass and rebound just as good as Lebron, so to me, Larry is better
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 22, 2016 15:08:51 GMT -5
PG - Oscar Robertson - The original "Lebron" who could average a triple double over a full season.
SG - Michael Jordan - The GOAT
SF - Scottie Pippen - If we're trying to win games I'm going with a guy who is fine deferring and the best defensive SF of all time.
PF - Charles Barkley - This man was a freak. His body deceived everyone.
C - Hakeem Olajuwan - The best center of all time. Could literally do it all and made life miserable for every 5 in the 80s/90s.
6th man - Magic Johnson
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 22, 2016 15:10:35 GMT -5
Gotta cement Lebron James in as the best all time 3 to ever play. We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. MJ & Magic, IMO, are hands down #1 and #2 and nobody is even close to passing them yet. There's still a laundry list of players you could make arguments for over Lebanon. End of career I think he'll be at least Top 10...Maybe Top 5 but I dont see him being able to break that top 3, at least not yet. This. Winning isn't #1 for Lebron unlike other greats. Lebron has disappeared too many times in big moments for me to put him in he top 10 yet. We also have to remember that he has taken advantage of a historically weak East his entire career.
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Post by T R W on Jun 22, 2016 15:15:59 GMT -5
I think the Lebron vs. Bird argument is intriguing. Despite my dislike of Lebron, that would be a tough call. It really depends on the next few years with Lebron.
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Post by Tim of thee on Jun 22, 2016 21:48:08 GMT -5
Lebron has carried his teams to titles. Won titles with different coaches. Been to the finals half his career. Won titles with two different teams. 5 straight finals appearances.
I know it's close, but I don't think I could pick Bird over James all day every day.
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Post by Mark Martin on Jun 23, 2016 0:00:12 GMT -5
Give me LeBron over Bird 12 months of the year.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 1:30:20 GMT -5
Lebron has carried his teams to titles. Won titles with different coaches. Been to the finals half his career. Won titles with two different teams. 5 straight finals appearances. I know it's close, but I don't think I could pick Bird over James all day every day. The guy who picked Bird over LeBron (champ or whatever) is a pretty notorious LeBron hater. His posts reek of butthurt in the NBA thread. I LOLed when during the first half of Game 7, he said along the lines of "Green came to play!" You could tell he thought GS was going to pull it out. I could feel the salt emanating from his profile when the Cavs pulled off the unthinkable. He's probably one of the ones who said Irving deserved MVP over LeBron
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Post by The Champ is Here! on Jun 27, 2016 18:25:18 GMT -5
Lebron has carried his teams to titles. Won titles with different coaches. Been to the finals half his career. Won titles with two different teams. 5 straight finals appearances. I know it's close, but I don't think I could pick Bird over James all day every day. The guy who picked Bird over LeBron (champ or whatever) is a pretty notorious LeBron hater. His posts reek of butthurt in the NBA thread. I LOLed when during the first half of Game 7, he said along the lines of "Green came to play!" You could tell he thought GS was going to pull it out. I could feel the salt emanating from his profile when the Cavs pulled off the unthinkable. He's probably one of the ones who said Irving deserved MVP over LeBron No,if you go back and look, i congratulated the cavs, as well as the fans of the cavs in that thread, they pulled it off, and LeBron is why. Does he do it without Kyrie? No, but he was the driving force, and deserved mvp The argument about who is better between Larry and LeBron is a legitimate one Larry won 3 nba championships, just like Lebron has. Larry went to 5 finals total, but played in a MUCH harder eastern conference than the one Lebron has. And Larry is a better shooter, no question. You can argue that Lebron is a better passer, and takes it to the hoop better, I'll disagree on the first but agree on the second, but i can see both sides Now, if Lebron wins another ring or 2? He passes Bird, but right now, i don't think he is better. And honestly, if you need a bucket at the end of the game to win, who are you picking?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 7:39:12 GMT -5
The guy who picked Bird over LeBron (champ or whatever) is a pretty notorious LeBron hater. His posts reek of butthurt in the NBA thread. I LOLed when during the first half of Game 7, he said along the lines of "Green came to play!" You could tell he thought GS was going to pull it out. I could feel the salt emanating from his profile when the Cavs pulled off the unthinkable. He's probably one of the ones who said Irving deserved MVP over LeBron No,if you go back and look, i congratulated the cavs, as well as the fans of the cavs in that thread, they pulled it off, and LeBron is why. Does he do it without Kyrie? No, but he was the driving force, and deserved mvp The argument about who is better between Larry and LeBron is a legitimate one Larry won 3 nba championships, just like Lebron has. Larry went to 5 finals total, but played in a MUCH harder eastern conference than the one Lebron has. And Larry is a better shooter, no question. You can argue that Lebron is a better passer, and takes it to the hoop better, I'll disagree on the first but agree on the second, but i can see both sides Now, if Lebron wins another ring or 2? He passes Bird, but right now, i don't think he is better. And honestly, if you need a bucket at the end of the game to win, who are you picking? LOL. What ing choice did you have? You've openly admitted that you're a LeBron hater. And he slammed your hopes of seeing him fail again the same way he slammed the Warriors chances of winning with that career defining block. "Does he do it without Kyrie, no". Um okay. Does Jordan win without Pippen? Does Curry win last year without Iguodala (and the myriad of Cavs injuries and the Western Conference being maimed). Does Wade win without Shaq in 06? Does Dirk win without Tyson Chandler? Does Duncan win without Parker? Does Bird win without Maxwell or McHale? Does Dumars win without Rodman and Laimbeer?
One thing you haters all have in common. When LeBron wins, you have to leave leave some kind of footnote that said win would not have been possible if they didn't have this player or that player. Same thing happened with Kobe. Kobe couldn't win without Shaq (which is mind-numbingly stupid as Shaq would not have won those 3 titles without Kobe either, but you haters love revisionist history). But with everyone else, you just say congrats.
Bird was a better shooter. No argument there. But to suggest he's a better overall player than LeBron is just purely asinine. I've had my share of criticisms for LeBron, especially when he's compared to Kobe. But his greatness can't be denied. He is without a doubt top 5 player of all time. He makes even the worst team a potential conference finalist. Look how Cleveland fared in 2010-2011 when he left. They went from being the best record team to the worst. That's no coincidence. He may not be a clutch shooter. But he can drive like a damn freight train when he wants to and still manage to score even though he gets fouled a lot more than what it is called. And even when he has a bad offensive game, he ALWAYS delivers defensively. People like to focus on the missed shots in the last 4 minutes of Game 7. But what about the 6 straight points he rattled off on the switch Cleveland forced with Ezeli?
Yes. The ECF is a joke. And I'll be the first to concede that no way does he make 6 straight Finals out West. Regardless though, even through an easy East, there's no escaping the opposite conference's best in the Finals (unless you're GS last year and have everything handed to you). And for what it's worth, the East wasn't easy every time. In 2007, LeBron beat a better Pistons team by himself. In 2012, he responded epically on the road to a Celtics team on the brink of another Finals berth.
2013, yes Allen hit the shot in Game 6. But LeBron spearheaded the comeback. And he absolutely dominated Game 7. And now he just showed up and led the Cavs to beating the same ing team that went 73-9 and had the whole world, including you, blowing them at every turn. And yet here you are still making excuses. Ohhhh but 12 minutes a game Bogut wasn't there. Yeah, you want to disregard the odds LeBron faced the entire series last year and then play the injury/suspension card this year? GTFO.
I ABSOLUTELY cannot stand those players on GS. They're arrogant as hell and full of their own ass. Curry dances a jig after every 3 pointer. But I picked them to win the series. I even have stated that Curry and Klay are the best shooters in the league. But that's about all they are. When they came back against OKC, I made no excuses. No footnotes. I called it like it is. They showed they were no fluke.
Now, LeBron and the Cavs did what many thought was impossible. And they did it in combination of great coaching, players stepping up, and the greatness of LeBron. Get over your butthurt and face facts. You don't have to like the man. But stop with the footnotes. Stop with the excuses. And just accept that they evolved into the better team this series.
Either way, I'm done engaging with you. I love to debate basketball. But not with mindless haters who will contrive utter bull**** for the sake of placating their own insecurity of seeing others succeed. The Lakers are my favorite team. But I had no excuses for us getting absolutely waxed by the Pistons in 04. First ever 5 game sweep. If you're a true fan of the game, be genuine on both ends. Not just when you're winning, or rather, when the successful person you hate loses.
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Post by T R W on Jun 28, 2016 7:58:36 GMT -5
As someone who watched Bird and Lebron's entire careers, I don't think comparing Bird and Lebron is asinine at all. I don't like Lebron James, but dude is unreal. The best player this generation hands down. I didn't like Larry Bird either, but dude was also unreal. We are talking about two of the NBA's greatest players of all-time, who play the same position. I think comparisons between the two are fair. Was Bird as good a defender as James? No. But he was a much better offensive player than James. They've had very similar honors as players, so I think close comparison of the two is legit. Honestly, who else are you going to compare him to? If someone chose James over Bird for their team, I would completely understand that decision. But I would also understand if they chose Bird as well. Both are/were just two ridiculously great players.
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Post by The Champ is Here! on Jun 28, 2016 12:31:12 GMT -5
As someone who watched Bird and Lebron's entire careers, I don't think comparing Bird and Lebron is asinine at all. I don't like Lebron James, but dude is unreal. The best player this generation hands down. I didn't like Larry Bird either, but dude was also unreal. We are talking about two of the NBA's greatest players of all-time, who play the same position. I think comparisons between the two are fair. Was Bird as good a defender as James? No. But he was a much better offensive player than James. They've had very similar honors as players, so I think close comparison of the two is legit. Honestly, who else are you going to compare him to? If someone chose James over Bird for their team, I would completely understand that decision. But I would also understand if they chose Bird as well. Both are/were just two ridiculously great players. Thank you for understanding my point
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 12:52:27 GMT -5
As someone who watched Bird and Lebron's entire careers, I don't think comparing Bird and Lebron is asinine at all. I don't like Lebron James, but dude is unreal. The best player this generation hands down. I didn't like Larry Bird either, but dude was also unreal. We are talking about two of the NBA's greatest players of all-time, who play the same position. I think comparisons between the two are fair. Was Bird as good a defender as James? No. But he was a much better offensive player than James. They've had very similar honors as players, so I think close comparison of the two is legit. Honestly, who else are you going to compare him to? If someone chose James over Bird for their team, I would completely understand that decision. But I would also understand if they chose Bird as well. Both are/were just two ridiculously great players. I think he's a better shooter than James. No argument there. But Curry is a better shooter too LOL. And look where that got him. The bottom line is James has more options offensively. Especially when he ing plays the 4 (as he started to in Game 3 in the Finals). Defensively, there's no comparison. And LeBron is one of the greatest passers ever in the game. And even though he missed several shots, it was so refreshing to see him take it to the hole as much as he did in Game 7. That's one of my (and many others) biggest criticisms. He settles for jumpers more than his shooting ability should allow. He's getting better every year though. He really should have scored on one of those late drives, but the refs missed a blatant foul on Iggy. That happens A LOT with LeBron. But don't say that out loud... Haters don't listen to logic. Which is exactly why I don't take anything that "Champ" says seriously. I don't know how much you keep up with the official NBA thread... But his posts speak for themselves. That's the problem with haters. Their bitterness and jealously blinds them to unequivocal truths. Even when they're proven undisputedly wrong, they have to hold on for dear life to some minor scrutinization. He's just butthurt because LeBron was the one thing that prevented Indiana from making a Finals return in 2012 and 2013. Had Indiana won and then won the Finals, he would have never said "George doesn't win without David West". He wouldn't have needed to. But for LeBron, he has to make sure to mention Irving. Because for some baffling reason, that gives him some kind of security, as if every other player to win a title DIDNT need another heavy hitter or two. I totally understand disliking a player. But to the degree that haters go to see LeBron (and Kobe before him) fail just amazes me. But you know... LeBron said it best for people like Champ and EVERYONE else in the world driven by bitterness (this is a great quote for life in general for anyone trying to do great things)
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Post by T R W on Jun 28, 2016 13:04:12 GMT -5
As someone who watched Bird and Lebron's entire careers, I don't think comparing Bird and Lebron is asinine at all. I don't like Lebron James, but dude is unreal. The best player this generation hands down. I didn't like Larry Bird either, but dude was also unreal. We are talking about two of the NBA's greatest players of all-time, who play the same position. I think comparisons between the two are fair. Was Bird as good a defender as James? No. But he was a much better offensive player than James. They've had very similar honors as players, so I think close comparison of the two is legit. Honestly, who else are you going to compare him to? If someone chose James over Bird for their team, I would completely understand that decision. But I would also understand if they chose Bird as well. Both are/were just two ridiculously great players. I think he's a better shooter than James. No argument there. But Curry is a better shooter too LOL. And look where that got him. The bottom line is James has more options offensively. Especially when he ing plays the 4 (as he started to in Game 3 in the Finals). Defensively, there's no comparison. And LeBron is one of the greatest passers ever in the game. And even though he missed several shots, it was so refreshing to see him take it to the hole as much as he did in Game 7. That's one of my (and many others) biggest criticisms. He settles for jumpers more than his shooting ability should allow. He's getting better every year though. He really should have scored on one of those late drives, but the refs missed a blatant foul on Iggy. That happens A LOT with LeBron. But don't say that out loud... Haters don't listen to logic. Which is exactly why I don't take anything that "Champ" says seriously. I don't know how much you keep up with the official NBA thread... But his posts speak for themselves. That's the problem with haters. Their bitterness and jealously blinds them to unequivocal truths. Even when they're proven undisputedly wrong, they have to hold on for dear life to some minor scrutinization. He's just butthurt because LeBron was the one thing that prevented Indiana from making a Finals return in 2012 and 2013. Had Indiana won and then won the Finals, he would have never said "George doesn't win without David West". He wouldn't have needed to. But for LeBron, he has to make sure to mention Irving. Because for some baffling reason, that gives him some kind of security, as if every other player to win a title DIDNT need another heavy hitter or two. I totally understand disliking a player. But to the degree that haters go to see LeBron (and Kobe before him) fail just amazes me. But you know... LeBron said it best for people like him and EVERYONE else in the world driven by bitterness (this is a great quote for life in general for anyone) Larry Bird was a absolutely phenomenal passer as well, and absolutely blew my mind with some of the passes he pulled off. But Lebron does too. Honestly I'd personally chalk them up as even in that category. I think Bird's passing acumen is short changed because everyone just talks about his shooting ability and he played at the same time as other legendary passers like Magic, Stockton, and others. While I agree that Champ tends to let his personal feelings cloud his judgement about Lebron some in some of the posts I have seen, you also seem to be really hyper defensive about people criticizing him too. It's hard to find sports fans who can debate or discuss outside of their personal feelings or fandoms, that's why you just have to let it go and move on. As much as I love sports, it's just sports man. It's not that serious.
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Post by DeadlyGame on Jun 28, 2016 13:17:54 GMT -5
PG - Magic Johnson SG - Michael Jordan SF - Larry Bird PF - Tim Duncan C - Wilt Chamberlain
Jordan wasn't the best three point shooter ever. So Bird could pick up the slack there.
The toughest is probably center. I think Chamberlain is the best center ever, but Kareem, Russell and Hakeem all have cases. While I don't think Hakeem is the best center of all time, I do think he's the most well rounded center ever.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 13:18:24 GMT -5
I think he's a better shooter than James. No argument there. But Curry is a better shooter too LOL. And look where that got him. The bottom line is James has more options offensively. Especially when he ing plays the 4 (as he started to in Game 3 in the Finals). Defensively, there's no comparison. And LeBron is one of the greatest passers ever in the game. And even though he missed several shots, it was so refreshing to see him take it to the hole as much as he did in Game 7. That's one of my (and many others) biggest criticisms. He settles for jumpers more than his shooting ability should allow. He's getting better every year though. He really should have scored on one of those late drives, but the refs missed a blatant foul on Iggy. That happens A LOT with LeBron. But don't say that out loud... Haters don't listen to logic. Which is exactly why I don't take anything that "Champ" says seriously. I don't know how much you keep up with the official NBA thread... But his posts speak for themselves. That's the problem with haters. Their bitterness and jealously blinds them to unequivocal truths. Even when they're proven undisputedly wrong, they have to hold on for dear life to some minor scrutinization. He's just butthurt because LeBron was the one thing that prevented Indiana from making a Finals return in 2012 and 2013. Had Indiana won and then won the Finals, he would have never said "George doesn't win without David West". He wouldn't have needed to. But for LeBron, he has to make sure to mention Irving. Because for some baffling reason, that gives him some kind of security, as if every other player to win a title DIDNT need another heavy hitter or two. I totally understand disliking a player. But to the degree that haters go to see LeBron (and Kobe before him) fail just amazes me. But you know... LeBron said it best for people like him and EVERYONE else in the world driven by bitterness (this is a great quote for life in general for anyone) Larry Bird was a absolutely phenomenal passer as well, and absolutely blew my mind with some of the passes he pulled off. But Lebron does too. Honestly I'd personally chalk them up as even in that category. I think Bird's passing acumen is short changed because everyone just talks about his shooting ability and he played at the same time as other legendary passers like Magic, Stockton, and others. While I agree that Champ tends to let his personal feelings cloud his judgement about Lebron some in some of the posts I have seen, you also seem to be really hyper defensive about people criticizing him too. It's hard to find sports fans who can debate or discuss outside of their personal feelings or fandoms, that's why you just have to let it go and move on. As much as I love sports, it's just sports man. It's not that serious. Ohh, LOL, believe me... I've MORE than criticized LBJ here and elsewhere. And there are plenty of players I can't stand... But it never stops me from giving credit where credit is due, or making up BS to criticize just for the sake of doing so. And with the incalculable amount of criticism LeBron receives on a daily basis, I think my personal defense of him is just the appropriate amount, if not less so. He's never cut any slack for failure. And he's never given credit (without asterisks) for success. People really want to harp on that donkey Green being out for one game and then GS losing 12 minutes a game Bogut as the reason why they lost. Yet those same people, in the same breath, want to say GS earned their title last year with beating a team that consisted of basically LeBron by himself and that it was a fair win. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. It's like the idiots who claim Perkins was the reason Boston lost to LA in Game 7... What about LA not having Bynum or Ariza for the ENTIRE 2008 Finals (that was Bynum's breakout season too). That's a big reason we got destroyed in the paint that year. But noooo, no slack for Kobe and the Lakers. But Perkins, who's not even in the best 5 players on the team, gets the title of being that important for 1 and a half games. Btw, they conveniently forget that Boston had a double digit lead in the 2nd half and that Rasheed played better than Perkins ever did. But what can I say? Haters LOOOOOVE revisionist history. But it's okay. LeBron silenced everyone last Sunday. His legacy is sealed. He could never win another title again and it wouldn't matter. He won one in Cleveland, led all players in basically every positive statistic possible, made a sport defining block, helped the Cavs become the first team to come back 3-1 in the Finals, and beat a team that had the best regular season ever, the best shooter ever, and 2 out of 3 final games at home. Anyone hating at this point is just grasping in their imagination. I'm glad Cleveland lost last year... Because it made breaking GS's hearts (and the erection of LeBron haters everywhere) so much sweeter. For my fellow Game of Thrones fans, cue Cersei walking out the door repeating "Shame"... Vengeance is a bitch.
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