Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 10:40:25 GMT -5
Looks like no LOD 2000 or Elite Sabu. We'll just get Hawk. That suits me fine. We all know Hawk WAS LOD.
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Cane Dewey Riley
Superstar
Has there ever been a time when more companies have been making wrestling figures at the same time?
Joined on: Apr 9, 2016 17:54:59 GMT -5
Posts: 928
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Post by Cane Dewey Riley on Jul 19, 2016 11:51:24 GMT -5
Snuka clearly isn't greatful for Vince keeping him out of jail anymore. How can Snuka know that WWE is responsible for it and not all those $1 indy shows he did in his 60s, considering he was deemed not competent to stand trial? You either are not competent or you are. Which is it Snuka? This was my thought when I read this article. Snuka is not competent enough to stand trial to be convicted of murder and yet he can be a part of this? Seems like any serious lawyer wouldn't want him on their side given that information.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 19, 2024 23:29:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 12:49:26 GMT -5
all of those guys
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Dat guy ova der
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Dah What?
Joined on: May 16, 2005 19:43:50 GMT -5
Posts: 3,085
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Post by Dat guy ova der on Jul 19, 2016 12:49:46 GMT -5
How can Snuka know that WWE is responsible for it and not all those $1 indy shows he did in his 60s, considering he was deemed not competent to stand trial? You either are not competent or you are. Which is it Snuka? This was my thought when I read this article. Snuka is not competent enough to stand trial to be convicted of murder and yet he can be a part of this? Seems like any serious lawyer wouldn't want him on their side given that information. According to an ESPN article on the original trial where he was deemed unfit, So it may be a little different being that they are saying that his career in the WWE is part/most of the reason that he is incompetent to stand trial in the other case. Here, he is simply evidence to support their side.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jul 19, 2016 15:51:10 GMT -5
This was my thought when I read this article. Snuka is not competent enough to stand trial to be convicted of murder and yet he can be a part of this? Seems like any serious lawyer wouldn't want him on their side given that information. According to an ESPN article on the original trial where he was deemed unfit, So it may be a little different being that they are saying that his career in the WWE is part/most of the reason that he is incompetent to stand trial in the other case. Here, he is simply evidence to support their side. You definitely raise an interesting issue. But how could one know where Snuka suffered the trauma? Meaning....how can you pinpoint it was due to his time in WWE and not the 15 or 20 years he spent wrestling for other promotions? Certainly I would think Snuka would be more susceptible to trauma the older he got.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jul 20, 2016 1:08:44 GMT -5
You have my sympathy when it comes to your concussions. I can only imagine the pain and frustration that you must feel, and I hope you find some relief someday. As for the wrestlers in question, I don't doubt that they are currently suffering or that the lifestyle of pro wrestling took a toll on their health. My question is how the lawsuit intends to *specifically* prove that WWE is responsible for these health problems when there is plenty of footage of these guys taking risks before and after their employment with WWF/E? Thank you for the sentiments. Much appreciated! As for the WWE's level of responsibility. They employed these men & women(let's not even dig into their con of independent contractor). They should be paying for their medical costs. If per say Road Warrior Animal can say on this show in this town I got a concussion but was not going to be paid if I wasn't working the next show in town B, that's where WWE is responsible financially for putting their talent at risk. These guys all working indies after WWE is 100% irrelevant. This is where I don't understand how the lawsuit is going to pinpoint WWE as solely producing those unsafe working conditions and not alerting their talent to those conditions. These guys chose a business where every company was and is predicated on their performers taking serious physical risks. Animal was taking chair shots to the head all over the world for 8 years before he began working for the WWF. Sabu was diving through tables for 20 years before working for WWE. Do all of these these individuals have detailed medical records that can prove they weren't already having neurological issues before WWF/E employed them? Can they likewise provide medical evidence to prove that they didn't develop similar conditions while working for other companies in concert with or after their WWE stints? Perhaps this lawsuit is being pursued on the belief that WWE will find it cheaper (or less of a public relations mess) to pay the plaintiffs rather than defend themselves. Otherwise, it seems to me that the burden of proof is too great for them to win.
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@AnHonorablePod
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Nov 21, 2012 13:50:44 GMT -5
Posts: 270
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jul 20, 2016 21:52:51 GMT -5
Thank you for the sentiments. Much appreciated! As for the WWE's level of responsibility. They employed these men & women(let's not even dig into their con of independent contractor). They should be paying for their medical costs. If per say Road Warrior Animal can say on this show in this town I got a concussion but was not going to be paid if I wasn't working the next show in town B, that's where WWE is responsible financially for putting their talent at risk. These guys all working indies after WWE is 100% irrelevant. This is where I don't understand how the lawsuit is going to pinpoint WWE as solely producing those unsafe working conditions and not alerting their talent to those conditions. These guys chose a business where every company was and is predicated on their performers taking serious physical risks. Animal was taking chair shots to the head all over the world for 8 years before he began working for the WWF. Sabu was diving through tables for 20 years before working for WWE. Do all of these these individuals have detailed medical records that can prove they weren't already having neurological issues before WWF/E employed them? Can they likewise provide medical evidence to prove that they didn't develop similar conditions while working for other companies in concert with or after their WWE stints? Perhaps this lawsuit is being pursued on the belief that WWE will find it cheaper (or less of a public relations mess) to pay the plaintiffs rather than defend themselves. Otherwise, it seems to me that the burden of proof is too great for them to win. Post purchase of WCW & ECW's Intellectual Property falls under the WWE banner. That's why guys like Axl Rotten are listed. If there is specific documentation of an inury and closely followed match, it's WWE's fault for allowing someone to go out and perform based on the employee not getting paid.
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Post by RybackV1 on Jul 20, 2016 21:56:48 GMT -5
Snuka is an an absolute moron for taking part in this. They saved his life. seemingly twice now. And Sabu is STILL taking those idiotic, injury causing bumps that he always used to take. To this day. That's kinda ed on his part.
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jason1980s
Main Eventer
Joined on: Sept 30, 2009 14:58:56 GMT -5
Posts: 2,311
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Post by jason1980s on Jul 21, 2016 17:43:11 GMT -5
In a sense, it's crazy. Some guys never worked for WWE or if so, did so very briefly. And of course, you have guys who saw so little action in the ring they would never be under any circumstance to get headshots. The list almost reads like a "convention" list where a lawyer went to a big autograph signing with all the wrestlers and just took their names down to be part of the lawsuit. In another sense, I LOVE it! WWE "owns" all of wrestling, they wanted it that way all along. Now they have to deal with the WCW and ECW wrestlers of the past. Personally, I'd like to see Paul Heyman give some of his money to the ECW guys (maybe he does, though you'd think we'd hear the wrestlers singing his praises). Those guys were really risking life and limb every match for ECW and Heyman. He not only gets off scot free but becomes attached to one of the biggest attractions in WWE and UFC. ECW guys are either hurting bad or deceased.
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Post by JC Motors on Jul 21, 2016 17:48:11 GMT -5
This lawsuit should get tossed out of court
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 19, 2024 23:29:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 18:41:07 GMT -5
They'll probably all forget about it...
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Post by tylerbreezee on Jul 21, 2016 20:09:27 GMT -5
They're all just looking for a quick buck because they can't find work anymore in the indies since they're older or their old WWF money has finally run out
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Post by kingnothing ~ Hardwired... on Jul 22, 2016 9:58:55 GMT -5
The Coach had some interesting comments about this:
"This is a very, very close topic for me. 2003 was the first time I got in the ring to train to be an in-ring participant. The very first day I was in there I suffered a concussion. There’s a very good chance, I didn’t get them all evaluated, but probably between 10 and 20 concussions during my time from 2003 – 2008. The one thing I’ve always said about Vince McMahon is this: he is more loyal than any person, boss or human being I’ve met in my life. and it’s not just because he signed my paychecks for nearly a decade. I don’t like it, in fact I hate it, when a certain group of people… and this was always the case when stars would leave to go somewhere else or they’d get fired because of something stupid they did, then they would blame Vince for whatever issues they had.
:"Vince has recognized that, so he has paid all these guys for years and years. And all he asks, all he asks, is once a year at WrestleMania they show up, sign some autographs, shake some hands and then he pays them enough to live. In response to this, what do these 50 guys do? They go out and file a lawsuit that he was not there for them and the company was not there for them when they had all these concussion issues.
"This drives me crazy because for a lot of these people this is a dream, a dream come true. It’s not an easy business, it’s a tough business but to come out and say the company didn’t take care of you because of these concussions is just wrong, it will go away and as a former employee and a person that loves that business, it just drives me crazy and I don’t like it.”
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jason1980s
Main Eventer
Joined on: Sept 30, 2009 14:58:56 GMT -5
Posts: 2,311
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Post by jason1980s on Jul 22, 2016 18:51:56 GMT -5
I like what Coach has to say. I really don't care for Vince the character (how did mild mannered commentator turn into crazy Mr. McMahon?) and I find his humor sick (making fun of JR continually, the kiss my ass club, Katie Vick, Rikishi stink face among others). But what many long term employees will tell you, and those who have been in good graces with the company though are not currently employed, is that Vince does take care of the boys. What I see on the list is a lot of guys who really weren't much in the company or whose best years may be behind them. They probably don't get called for an axxcess autograph appearance and it probably burns them. The most surprising is Animal of LOD. I guess that Hall of Fame induction is just too long ago to remember how good WWF has been to them. Personally I never cared for LOD and the teams best days were behind them in the early 90s yet Vince kept bringing them back. Probably lucky for Road Dogg and Billy Gunn. And LOD made fools of any kind of legacy during their 1998 stint, IMO. I'm guessing if WWE calls Animal as a trainer a few years later, all will be forgotten.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jul 24, 2016 4:46:36 GMT -5
This is where I don't understand how the lawsuit is going to pinpoint WWE as solely producing those unsafe working conditions and not alerting their talent to those conditions. These guys chose a business where every company was and is predicated on their performers taking serious physical risks. Animal was taking chair shots to the head all over the world for 8 years before he began working for the WWF. Sabu was diving through tables for 20 years before working for WWE. Do all of these these individuals have detailed medical records that can prove they weren't already having neurological issues before WWF/E employed them? Can they likewise provide medical evidence to prove that they didn't develop similar conditions while working for other companies in concert with or after their WWE stints? Perhaps this lawsuit is being pursued on the belief that WWE will find it cheaper (or less of a public relations mess) to pay the plaintiffs rather than defend themselves. Otherwise, it seems to me that the burden of proof is too great for them to win. Post purchase of WCW & ECW's Intellectual Property falls under the WWE banner. That's why guys like Axl Rotten are listed. If there is specific documentation of an inury and closely followed match, it's WWE's fault for allowing someone to go out and perform based on the employee not getting paid. That's precisely why I don't see this suit being successful unless WWE just wants it to go away quietly sooner rather than later. There *might* be a couple of guys on this list who had the forethought to prepare for this type of situation, but all of the specifics about the biz from the 80s and 90s don't suggest that there's much of a paper trail. Wrestlers were often responsible, as independent contractors, for their own medical care. They worked through injuries on a regular basis, often neglecting doctor's appointments for pay days, and the understanding of concussions leading to CTE only began to emerge in the last 10-15 years. I'd be shocked if WWE/F kept specific documentation of their employees medical conditions until after the Guerrero/Benoit deaths. Perhaps the suit can prove negligence in that aspect, but the plaintiffs are likely going to be recounting old stories without much hard evidence. Those claims might well be true, but I doubt that they'll be able to directly tie their WWF/E stints to their problems.
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@AnHonorablePod
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Nov 21, 2012 13:50:44 GMT -5
Posts: 270
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jul 26, 2016 18:34:01 GMT -5
Post purchase of WCW & ECW's Intellectual Property falls under the WWE banner. That's why guys like Axl Rotten are listed. If there is specific documentation of an inury and closely followed match, it's WWE's fault for allowing someone to go out and perform based on the employee not getting paid. That's precisely why I don't see this suit being successful unless WWE just wants it to go away quietly sooner rather than later. There *might* be a couple of guys on this list who had the forethought to prepare for this type of situation, but all of the specifics about the biz from the 80s and 90s don't suggest that there's much of a paper trail. Wrestlers were often responsible, as independent contractors, for their own medical care. They worked through injuries on a regular basis, often neglecting doctor's appointments for pay days, and the understanding of concussions leading to CTE only began to emerge in the last 10-15 years. I'd be shocked if WWE/F kept specific documentation of their employees medical conditions until after the Guerrero/Benoit deaths. Perhaps the suit can prove negligence in that aspect, but the plaintiffs are likely going to be recounting old stories without much hard evidence. Those claims might well be true, but I doubt that they'll be able to directly tie their WWF/E stints to their problems. All you have to do is to look at their schedules from that time period and the evidence speaks for itself. If they didn't work they don't get paid. That in itself makes WWE liable from a legal standpoint.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jul 28, 2016 0:26:29 GMT -5
That's precisely why I don't see this suit being successful unless WWE just wants it to go away quietly sooner rather than later. There *might* be a couple of guys on this list who had the forethought to prepare for this type of situation, but all of the specifics about the biz from the 80s and 90s don't suggest that there's much of a paper trail. Wrestlers were often responsible, as independent contractors, for their own medical care. They worked through injuries on a regular basis, often neglecting doctor's appointments for pay days, and the understanding of concussions leading to CTE only began to emerge in the last 10-15 years. I'd be shocked if WWE/F kept specific documentation of their employees medical conditions until after the Guerrero/Benoit deaths. Perhaps the suit can prove negligence in that aspect, but the plaintiffs are likely going to be recounting old stories without much hard evidence. Those claims might well be true, but I doubt that they'll be able to directly tie their WWF/E stints to their problems. All you have to do is to look at their schedules from that time period and the evidence speaks for itself. If they didn't work they don't get paid. That in itself makes WWE liable from a legal standpoint. Are there even surviving, verified hard copies of those from 20-30 years ago? Did these guys keep corresponding medical records from the doctors they saw at the time, if they even sought out medical care in instances where they, like this update on the lawsuit words it, "got their bell rung?" I seriously doubt there's much documentation surviving from the pre-digital age of recording keeping, especially when it comes to the misunderstood nature of concussions in that same era. Here is the update, and I while I'm guessing that many of the plaintiff's assertions are true, the case seems like mostly hearsay littered with ambiguity. link
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@AnHonorablePod
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Nov 21, 2012 13:50:44 GMT -5
Posts: 270
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Aug 3, 2016 15:53:25 GMT -5
All you have to do is to look at their schedules from that time period and the evidence speaks for itself. If they didn't work they don't get paid. That in itself makes WWE liable from a legal standpoint. Are there even surviving, verified hard copies of those from 20-30 years ago? Did these guys keep corresponding medical records from the doctors they saw at the time, if they even sought out medical care in instances where they, like this update on the lawsuit words it, "got their bell rung?" I seriously doubt there's much documentation surviving from the pre-digital age of recording keeping, especially when it comes to the misunderstood nature of concussions in that same era. Here is the update, and I while I'm guessing that many of the plaintiff's assertions are true, the case seems like mostly hearsay littered with ambiguity. linkThe doctors records must fit with the time frame given by the individual plaintiffs. It is not up to the wrestler to keep his own medical records. There's also the post time period life affects many are suffering from. That doesn't come from gardening or golfing.
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