havoc7179
Main Eventer
What is this?
Joined on: Oct 16, 2012 9:11:18 GMT -5
Posts: 4,189
|
Post by havoc7179 on Jul 30, 2016 17:43:08 GMT -5
I have two questions about how WWE handles new yet established wrestlers.
I think it's pretty much undrstood that Vince has a formula for established stars who first join WWE. Start them out strong. Put them in the World Title picture for a bit, but then have them job and drop to the middle card for a while. It happened with the Man they Call Vader, Paul Wight, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Booker T, Sting, and is happening with AJ Styles. I think that there's a consensus that this is done so that Vince can take credit for their careers if they regain success. But here's something I don't get.
Vader, Jericho, Benoit, Booker T and Sting were all big WCW stars or got their names established in WCW, with WWE having always acknowledged that WCW was its competition so it made sense that they would be jobbed around for a little bit. It was always let them come close to success, but then have them lose feuds and lose out and then rebuild them.
AJ Styles was never a star for an established company, so why is he being placed in this formula? TNA is where AJ made a reputation for himself, yet WWE likes to ignore it. NJPW was a blip on the radar, and they've never been competition for WWE. So really, much like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, he is a "nobody" to the WWE Universe because he was an indy star, and WWE seems to use a different formula for those.
If I remember correctly, Punk and Bryan were involved in big angles and never really went through a down time. Even when CM Punk was courting Kelly Kelly in a Mike Knox feud (I think that happened), everything was building him up. Same goes for Bryan even when he was briefly on-screen dating Gail Kim and the Bellas. They started from the bottom, but were being groomed into stars.
Why did WWE break away from this formula? Was it just because with injuries they needed to acknowledge that AJ was good? It seemed like starting with the Raw after the Rumble, the idea was to not let AJ get to the top of the card so soon, and build him up. Yet, they fast tracked it and are now placing him in the formula for dealing with WCW wrestlers.
I just don't see why they broke away from the formula here. Yes I know it's still early, and he's been in high profile matches for all 7 months, but so did all the WCW guys I listed. I'm not saying its wrong. I'm just saying it breaks from precedent.
So that's question 1: Why did WWE place AJ in the formula for dealing with WCW Stars? Is TNA really competition? Is NJPW competition? Or was it because of injuries requiring a fast tracked superstar?
QUestion 2: Why is this seemingly a thing?
|
|
BASTARDKING
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 6, 2008 15:51:46 GMT -5
Posts: 1,160
|
Post by BASTARDKING on Jul 30, 2016 17:47:36 GMT -5
Im sure AJ is being fast tracked because of his age. Wrestlers have a shelf life as we all know and AJ might not have too many more years left to get some good drawing power from him. Best thing they could do is utilize his value and play up to the fact that even though he's the new kid on block, he's done everything outside of the universe to maximize his value.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Apr 19, 2024 17:08:22 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 18:21:45 GMT -5
I think injuries played some part. But at the same time AJ is 38 & his style of wrestling isn't forgiving, where as a guy like cena could easily wrestle for the next decade doing what he does now.
They may as well cash in on him now and give him his shot at being a top guy otherwise it probably won't ever happen. I think the same applies to Finn as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by ThugSuperstar on Jul 30, 2016 19:48:26 GMT -5
It's an ego thing for Vince, and it's really as simple as that. ECW was never a threat to running the WWF out of business back in the day, but Vince still made sure that the prominent ECW wrestlers like Tazz, Raven, Rhyno, etc. never reached any higher than being mid-carders in the WWF. Vince simply does not like seeing wrestlers succeed if he doesn't have a hand in creating them. Every once in a while there will be an exception to the rule, like Bryan or Punk, but for the most part Vince always has been that way and always will be.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rated [R] NinJa on Jul 30, 2016 20:26:59 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Jericho (or even AJ) stated on Talk Is Jericho with The Club episode that when Styles debuted Vince wanted to put a 'Pitbull' gimmick on him but AJ must've impressed Vince and they dropped the idea and I guess they just let AJ be himself. Jericho has also said in the past that no matter how much you do outside of the WWE it doesn't matter once you're in the company hence why a lot of the wrestlers OP had mentioned pretty much started the way they did. I wouldn't be surprised if they use it as some sort of 'proving ground' kinda thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 30, 2016 22:22:14 GMT -5
AJ went from a feud with Chris Jericho, To A feud with The WWE Champion. To a feud with John Cena.
When exactly was his demotion period?....
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question here.....
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: Apr 19, 2024 17:08:22 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 22:41:31 GMT -5
I think Styles has done fine. He's a pretty small dude so he's not gonna come out and squash everyone. He's wrestled top guys and has beaten them and he's held his own in losses. He's impressed me more as time passes on the the mic. I don't think they've broken him down. We don't see guys debut and instantly become champion and carry the load in the WWE. It's just not what they do.
AJ is there to be on a worldwide platform showcasing his talents. He will eventually get a Championship run. All will be well.
|
|
|
|
Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jul 30, 2016 23:04:30 GMT -5
AJ Styles doesn't care what he does in the WWE, for AJ Styles is just happy to be in the WWE.
He is making good money, he is appearing at PPVs he never thought he would compete at (like Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania and now SummerSlam) and he gets to have fun and have new matches with new opponents he's never wrestled before.
So I am pretty sure AJ would be happy with anything the WWE gives him to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by ZDB on Jul 30, 2016 23:36:44 GMT -5
LOL TNA isn't established? They may be a shell of a company but he was on top when Nash, Hall, Hogan, ect. were there. They mention NJPW because exactly as you said they aren't competing for the same market. TNA is.
|
|
|
|
Post by ThugSuperstar on Jul 31, 2016 0:09:24 GMT -5
AJ went from a feud with Chris Jericho, To A feud with The WWE Champion. To a feud with John Cena. When exactly was his demotion period?.... Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question here..... Well, he's lost every feud he's been in so far. |
|
|
|
Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 31, 2016 0:23:22 GMT -5
AJ went from a feud with Chris Jericho, To A feud with The WWE Champion. To a feud with John Cena. When exactly was his demotion period?.... Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question here..... Well, he's lost every feud he's been in so far. There are TONS of top WWE guys that lost the majority of their feuds. Hell there are TONS of HOF'ers that lost most of their feuds even. That doesn't mean much. |
|
havoc7179
Main Eventer
What is this?
Joined on: Oct 16, 2012 9:11:18 GMT -5
Posts: 4,189
|
Post by havoc7179 on Jul 31, 2016 8:39:48 GMT -5
Well, he's lost every feud he's been in so far. There are TONS of top WWE guys that lost the majority of their feuds. Hell there are TONS of HOF'ers that lost most of their feuds even. That doesn't mean much. Perhaps I wasn't too clear. AJ isn't diminished, and yes, tons of famous WWE wrestlers went on to lose dozens of feuds, but historically let's look at some examples: Vader: Multiple WCW Champion. Comes in to much fanfare. Takes out Gorrila Monsoon. Goes after the WWF Championship. Wins 5 titles...oh wait. No. He never does. He eventually finds his career feuding with TAFKA Goldust and cuts a promo about how he himself is a piece of garbage. Vince tried to build Vader's character to how Vince wanted Vader's character to be, and it failed. So, Vader was tossed. Booker T: Multiple WCW Champion. Comes into WWE as coholder of WCW and WCW US Champion. Leader of the inVasion. NO wait, that was Stone Cold Steve Austin who made Booker T look stupid for multiple months. Eventually, Vince builds Booker as a King, and King Booker finally gets a title run. Vince takes established characters, has them lose feuds, and tries to give them WWE personalities. Some take (Booker T) some fail (Vader). So how was AJ Styles an established character when WWE is asking us to forget his time in TNA? Why is he seemingly going down this path and not the path of Indy Stars like Bryan and Punk? Bryan and Punk lost some of their feuds too early on, but they were still given big pushes here and there until finally reaching the top. |
|
|
|
Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 31, 2016 9:18:27 GMT -5
There are TONS of top WWE guys that lost the majority of their feuds. Hell there are TONS of HOF'ers that lost most of their feuds even. That doesn't mean much. Perhaps I wasn't too clear. AJ isn't diminished, and yes, tons of famous WWE wrestlers went on to lose dozens of feuds, but historically let's look at some examples: Vader: Multiple WCW Champion. Comes in to much fanfare. Takes out Gorrila Monsoon. Goes after the WWF Championship. Wins 5 titles...oh wait. No. He never does. He eventually finds his career feuding with TAFKA Goldust and cuts a promo about how he himself is a piece of garbage. Vince tried to build Vader's character to how Vince wanted Vader's character to be, and it failed. So, Vader was tossed. Booker T: Multiple WCW Champion. Comes into WWE as coholder of WCW and WCW US Champion. Leader of the inVasion. NO wait, that was Stone Cold Steve Austin who made Booker T look stupid for multiple months. Eventually, Vince builds Booker as a King, and King Booker finally gets a title run. Vince takes established characters, has them lose feuds, and tries to give them WWE personalities. Some take (Booker T) some fail (Vader). So how was AJ Styles an established character when WWE is asking us to forget his time in TNA? Why is he seemingly going down this path and not the path of Indy Stars like Bryan and Punk? Bryan and Punk lost some of their feuds too early on, but they were still given big pushes here and there until finally reaching the top. I guess I just don't really see how AJ fits into the category you're building. He's in a feud with Cena and it's looking very likely that he'll be WWE Champion by the end of the year. |
|
![Rated [R] NinJa Avatar](http://storage.proboards.com/530008/avatar/IDIYNeRTVZulhCPXFiqx.png)
