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Post by Manning Of Steel on Feb 5, 2017 17:01:39 GMT -5
This isn't a John Cena hate thread(do those even exist any more?).
I actually really started to like Cena when he had the feud with Punk in 2011. His stuff with Rock was fun, then of course the great matches he had when he would defend the US Title every week. But WWE really wants to push this idea that John Cena is the greatest of all time, and it's really simple why he never will be:
He was forced on the fans.
Yes, it really is that simple. I'm not going to take away from his work ethic, because it's unmatched. But at the end of the day, John Cena was pushed on everyone. He was not someone who got over organically on his own(Austin, Rock, Punk, Bryan). I'm not saying any of those guys are the GOAT either. Wrestling is very subjective. John Cena can become a 20x World Champion but that still doesn't mean he'll be the best ever.
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
Posts: 4,477
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Feb 5, 2017 17:03:20 GMT -5
He did get over organically on his own. But then he became the number one guy and got pushed down everyone's throats.
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Post by PJ on Feb 5, 2017 17:14:51 GMT -5
But there are tons of kids who love him and eventually they will be adults talking about how they grew up with him and why he is the greatest ever. And Lord knows another legends great will lose their spot on the GoaT list. It happens all the time so while it might not happen in my lifetime I'm sure it will happen.
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Post by ahunter8056 on Feb 5, 2017 17:20:26 GMT -5
Seriously though, I think the only measure of whether or not a wrestler is one of the greatest of all time, is to look at what percentage of the worldwide audience is a fan of that individual wrestler. Like it or not, John Cena is one of the most popular wrestlers of all-time.
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Post by Evil Abed on Feb 5, 2017 17:26:09 GMT -5
Opening Statement: Agreed, Cena will never be the GOAT for me at least.
BUT, not sure how you see Cena going from extremely bland babyface debut, to rap gimmick, to 2003 Cena, to 2004 Cena, to 05 WWE Champ Cena as him being pushed on everyone. The difference between John Cena and Roman Reigns, is that there was a period of time in his career where fans weren't against John Cena.
If you're looking to complain about being forced on us from the start, you're looking for Roman Reigns.
Wasn't supposed to be in the Shield (was supposed to be Ohno) WWE forced him into the group. Was looked upon from the start as the weakest member of the three. Was getting weak reactions compared to Ambrose when the Shield split, yet Roman main events. Booed at the Rumble '15 (if you're standing in the ring with the Rock, and you're getting him booed, thats saying something) Forced on us into the Main Event of Mania 31 Booed all during Mania 32 Caught using steroids, yet is still thrust back in the World Title picture in less than 6 months. And yet still after all of this, is still somehow likely facing Undertaker at Mania.
The only time I ever recall Reigns getting a strong face reaction on his own was at Rumble '14 only because no one wanted Batista to win.
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Post by TheLastDude on Feb 5, 2017 17:27:23 GMT -5
He was forced on the fans. No. No, he sure wasn't. He slowly got over on his own after gimmick changes, and then Vince hitched the caboose up to the locomotive when it started barreling down the tracks. Hogan replaced Sammartino. Austin and Rock replaced Hogan. Cena replaced Austin and Rock. They would have been stupid NOT to milk the Cenation for all it was worth. Think of how much money was made from his merchandise, how many people went to live events JUST to see him, and how many eyeballs were glued to sets to see what he was going to do next. Cena was the last truly organic star.
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hbkowns
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 15, 2011 23:33:52 GMT -5
Posts: 4,235
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Post by hbkowns on Feb 5, 2017 17:35:23 GMT -5
It was established a long time ago that he would never be GOAT.
Don't get me wrong. I respect him and all the contributions to the business but I will never see him on the level of an Austin, Rock, or even Hogan. A lot of his push from 2006-2010 really turned me off from wrestling, as so for a lot of others. He was directly the cause of a lot of guys not getting over and not getting their due. In an 8 year gap the only new stars that wwe produced was Orton, Cena, and Batista, which is embarrassing. Those 4 years were almost unwatchable and I can never forgive WWE/Cena for almost pushing me away from wrestling.
People applaud Cena for putting on stellar matches with Styles, Owens, Rollins, etc. He's put a lot of those guys over but it's not by choice. One Triple H's influence kicked in about 4 years ago, Cena stopped getting his way in a lot of aspects. Triple H has his guys that are protected, Cena can't run rough shot through everyone anymore. I think Vince has finally realized that as well, you can't create new stars if they're constantly taking turns being fed to one guy.
Long story short, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, Cena has been more harm than good to WWE. That's why he's not even close to being in the league of the greats that this business has seen.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Feb 5, 2017 18:09:09 GMT -5
Nobody will ever reach the level of Hogan, Rock or Austin in terms of genuine stardom and hardcore fan nostalgia/enjoyment. They were the three guys who became megastars before the Internet turned us into anti-fans. But it's a credit to Cena that he's a million times closer to being the fourth member of that group than anyone else is, and that longevity-wise he's far outlasted the three of them as a top babyface. Although he's kinda the top heel too, or maybe second top heel after Roman Reigns these days.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Feb 5, 2017 18:18:01 GMT -5
Hogan was forced on the fans and became the GOAT.
Same with Flair.
Just because the company gets behind someone and protects them with their booking doesn't mean they're not good performers. Cena was very stale for a long time, but now he's being used so sparingly, he's much easier to like.
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Post by TheLastDude on Feb 5, 2017 18:20:16 GMT -5
Nobody will ever reach the level of Hogan, Rock or Austin in terms of genuine stardom and hardcore fan nostalgia/enjoyment. They were the three guys who became megastars before the Internet turned us into anti-fans. But it's a credit to Cena that he's a million times closer to being the fourth member of that group than anyone else is, and that longevity-wise he's far outlasted the three of them as a top babyface. Although he's kinda the top heel too, or maybe second top heel after Roman Reigns these days. At least Cena's movies are better than Hogan and Austin's...so he has that going for him anyway.
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Squared²
Main Eventer
IT'S ME AUSTIN
Joined on: May 18, 2009 16:30:42 GMT -5
Posts: 3,150
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Post by Squared² on Feb 5, 2017 18:20:53 GMT -5
I think you forget how over he was became champ
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Post by tylerbreezee on Feb 5, 2017 19:15:03 GMT -5
Joke of a thread
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Post by Nivro™ on Feb 5, 2017 19:17:47 GMT -5
Because his name isn't Ric Flair
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Post by TheHitmanKid on Feb 5, 2017 19:52:14 GMT -5
GOAT is more on the line of people's preference.
Our generation might consider Austin, Rock, Bret, Sting, Shawn, Hogan, Taker ect.
This generation would say Cena, Brock, Punk, Styles, Bryan, Owens, Roman, Rollins ect.
Next generation would be having this same discussion about how the next wrestler is not greater than Cena.
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Post by ClashOfStyles on Feb 5, 2017 19:57:27 GMT -5
Opening Statement: Agreed, Cena will never be the GOAT for me at least. BUT, not sure how you see Cena going from extremely bland babyface debut, to rap gimmick, to 2003 Cena, to 2004 Cena, to 05 WWE Champ Cena as him being pushed on everyone. The difference between John Cena and Roman Reigns, is that there was a period of time in his career where fans weren't against John Cena. If you're looking to complain about being forced on us from the start, you're looking for Roman Reigns. Wasn't supposed to be in the Shield (was supposed to be Ohno) WWE forced him into the group. Was looked upon from the start as the weakest member of the three. Was getting weak reactions compared to Ambrose when the Shield split, yet Roman main events. Booed at the Rumble '15 (if you're standing in the ring with the Rock, and you're getting him booed, thats saying something) Forced on us into the Main Event of Mania 31 Booed all during Mania 32 Caught using steroids, yet is still thrust back in the World Title picture in less than 6 months. And yet still after all of this, is still somehow definitely beating Undertaker at Mania. The only time I ever recall Reigns getting a strong face reaction on his own was at Rumble '14 only because no one wanted Batista to win. Fixed.
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Post by Evil Abed on Feb 5, 2017 20:05:53 GMT -5
Opening Statement: Agreed, Cena will never be the GOAT for me at least. BUT, not sure how you see Cena going from extremely bland babyface debut, to rap gimmick, to 2003 Cena, to 2004 Cena, to 05 WWE Champ Cena as him being pushed on everyone. The difference between John Cena and Roman Reigns, is that there was a period of time in his career where fans weren't against John Cena. If you're looking to complain about being forced on us from the start, you're looking for Roman Reigns. Wasn't supposed to be in the Shield (was supposed to be Ohno) WWE forced him into the group. Was looked upon from the start as the weakest member of the three. Was getting weak reactions compared to Ambrose when the Shield split, yet Roman main events. Booed at the Rumble '15 (if you're standing in the ring with the Rock, and you're getting him booed, thats saying something) Forced on us into the Main Event of Mania 31 Booed all during Mania 32 Caught using steroids, yet is still thrust back in the World Title picture in less than 6 months. And yet still after all of this, is still somehow definitely beating Undertaker at Mania. The only time I ever recall Reigns getting a strong face reaction on his own was at Rumble '14 only because no one wanted Batista to win. Fixed. God I hope not, I fear you're right, but until then I can pray.
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Post by Brad on Feb 5, 2017 20:07:25 GMT -5
He did get over organically on his own. But then he became the number one guy and got pushed down everyone's throats. This
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Post by ClashOfStyles on Feb 5, 2017 20:18:16 GMT -5
Nobody will ever reach the level of Hogan, Rock or Austin in terms of genuine stardom and hardcore fan nostalgia/enjoyment. They were the three guys who became megastars before the Internet turned us into anti-fans. But it's a credit to Cena that he's a million times closer to being the fourth member of that group than anyone else is, and that longevity-wise he's far outlasted the three of them as a top babyface. Although he's kinda the top heel too, or maybe second top heel after Roman Reigns these days. All of this. Especially the part about the internet. In this day and age the internet would be all over those guys. Hogan would probably be getting a similar reaction to Reigns for not being able to wrestle and being the guy the company was protecting. It's nearly impossible to think of one match he lost clean from 84-94(Warrior doesn't count with Hogan basically kicking out at three). Austin would be torn apart for having a boring look and not being as good in the ring as some of the other guys. To this day, The Rock still gets criticized for being a sh*t wrestler. My point is, those three wouldn't have made it near to the height of popularity they were at if the internet was around, and if it wasn't around today either,. Then John Cena would be getting the exact same reaction that Hogan, Rock, and Austin got back in theie respective eras.
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Post by James St. James on Feb 5, 2017 20:26:58 GMT -5
Reigns got popped for adderall not steroids. Fake news.
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Post by The neferious brotha Hargrove on Feb 5, 2017 20:28:27 GMT -5
Cena is already the GOAT
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