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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on Feb 17, 2017 12:21:29 GMT -5
I have to admit, it seems like Smith doesn't know how to make a movie that's not set in the Askewniverse. Jersey Girl, Zack and Miri, Cop Out, Red State, Tusk, Yoga Hosers...none of them were really all that good. Pardon the pun, but the IMHO, the Askiewniverse is his muse. It is where he started, and where his best material comes from, which is all a series of exaggerated life experiences of his, or those close to him. And to be honest, it is what we all love and relate to with him. Long live the Askewniverse....I mean who wasn't saddened to see the book literally close on it in Dogma? Clerks 2 was after Dogma. His recent movies have not been that good at all. I know they are his pet projects he does for fun, but that could have studio heads and cast members wondering exactly where his head is at. |
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Post by TheLastDude on Feb 17, 2017 21:59:27 GMT -5
Pardon the pun, but the IMHO, the Askiewniverse is his muse. It is where he started, and where his best material comes from, which is all a series of exaggerated life experiences of his, or those close to him. And to be honest, it is what we all love and relate to with him. Long live the Askewniverse....I mean who wasn't saddened to see the book literally close on it in Dogma? Clerks 2 was after Dogma. His recent movies have not been that good at all. I know they are his pet projects he does for fun, but that could have studio heads and cast members wondering exactly where his head is at. This is where I'm at. You can only make clunkers for so long before people start to lose faith in you. It's one thing to take a risk, or to do something experimental...but it's something else entirely when you're turning out movies that even die-hard fans don't care for. |
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Post by Word™ on Feb 17, 2017 22:27:48 GMT -5
I have to admit, it seems like Smith doesn't know how to make a movie that's not set in the Askewniverse. Jersey Girl, Zack and Miri, Cop Out, Red State, Tusk, Yoga Hosers...none of them were really all that good. I've spoke with my friends about this but I honestly believe out of all the "indie darlings" that came around in the mid 90's, Kevin Smith is the only one that didn't grow his craft.. He's the exact same director today that he was in 1994. Now look at Quentin Tarantino or Jon Favreau.. It's a night and day difference on careers.. And I'd go to argue that Kevin Smith had MORE working in his favor than anyone else including the above mentioned.. He's the reason Good Will Hunting was made and he had deep ties with Affleck and Damon.. Now he speaks to neither of them and can't even get his films produced. I love Kevin Smith for life and the guy is a giant inspiration to me.. But I've beening wondering what in the world happened.. Not in the last few years, but over the last 23 years. |
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Post by TheLastDude on Feb 17, 2017 22:58:50 GMT -5
I have to admit, it seems like Smith doesn't know how to make a movie that's not set in the Askewniverse. Jersey Girl, Zack and Miri, Cop Out, Red State, Tusk, Yoga Hosers...none of them were really all that good. I've spoke with my friends about this but I honestly believe out of all the "indie darlings" that came around in the mid 90's, Kevin Smith is the only one that didn't grow his craft.. He's the exact same director today that he was in 1994. Now look at Quentin Tarantino or Jon Favreau.. It's a night and day difference on careers.. And I'd go to argue that Kevin Smith had MORE working in his favor than anyone else including the above mentioned.. He's the reason Good Will Hunting was made and he had deep ties with Affleck and Damon.. Now he speaks to neither of them and can't even get his films produced. I love Kevin Smith for life and the guy is a giant inspiration to me.. But I've beening wondering what in the world happened.. Not in the last few years, but over the last 23 years. Spot on. |
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Post by RSCTom on Feb 23, 2017 13:02:56 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity do you guys really hold his films on that high of a pedestal? I love and will always love Clerks and I think that's his crowning jewel but to me the only thing that comes even close to that is Chasing Amy from everything else I've seen. I've always thought everything else he's done is pretty vastly overrated. Mallrats being an example of one that I can barely get through.
Don't get me wrong, I wish the show were distributed because I have a soft spot for those types of things and I think there's definitely something to be said for malls and the absolute wastelands they've become in all of our lives that could be fun, but I don't see using his name in the same breath as someone like Tarantino. Haven't watched Jay and Silent Bob since it came out but I remember it just being goofy fun and not really something for him to be touting a 'big reveal' over.
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Post by Triple S: POOR on Feb 23, 2017 13:42:39 GMT -5
Kevin Smith movies are simple, mindless fun with great one liners. Keyword being FUN.
I haven't seen a single thing he's done since Clerks 2, nor do I really have any interest to. I've fallen in love with the Askewniverse and the characters they've created. Anything outside of it just doesn't interest me.
So the Mallrats series had me interested, this Jay & Silent Bob reboot has me interested. Give me whatever. Although I was far more excited for a Mallrats sequel. Same as I was Wet Hot American Summer.
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Post by Zigzag on Feb 23, 2017 14:40:44 GMT -5
I blame Seth Rogen. Smith didn't touch the stuff till he made 'Zach & Miri'.
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Post by vampiroporvida on Feb 23, 2017 15:43:41 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity do you guys really hold his films on that high of a pedestal? I love and will always love Clerks and I think that's his crowning jewel but to me the only thing that comes even close to that is Chasing Amy from everything else I've seen. I've always thought everything else he's done is pretty vastly overrated. Mallrats being an example of one that I can barely get through. Don't get me wrong, I wish the show were distributed because I have a soft spot for those types of things and I think there's definitely something to be said for malls and the absolute wastelands they've become in all of our lives that could be fun, but I don't see using his name in the same breath as someone like Tarantino. Haven't watched Jay and Silent Bob since it came out but I remember it just being goofy fun and not really something for him to be touting a 'big reveal' over. I do hold Kev's flicks in the highest regard, but they connected to my life and lifestyle (Mallrat) around the time I saw them. He spoke for a generation, or what some thought they were/wanted to be. We got to see people who acted us on screen and did what we did. Stuff that we could imitate, to an extent. Now it is for nostalgia, respect, and love to a time past. Tarantino, and most other filmmakers for that matter, I just do not have the connection with. The material, ala screenplay, characters, and specific actors, make them more gems to me than do the directors. Then again, I like stuff shot on a handycam too... it is just all a matter of what I am looking for and how it gets to me, at that moment. |
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Post by RSCTom on Feb 23, 2017 17:37:31 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity do you guys really hold his films on that high of a pedestal? I love and will always love Clerks and I think that's his crowning jewel but to me the only thing that comes even close to that is Chasing Amy from everything else I've seen. I've always thought everything else he's done is pretty vastly overrated. Mallrats being an example of one that I can barely get through. Don't get me wrong, I wish the show were distributed because I have a soft spot for those types of things and I think there's definitely something to be said for malls and the absolute wastelands they've become in all of our lives that could be fun, but I don't see using his name in the same breath as someone like Tarantino. Haven't watched Jay and Silent Bob since it came out but I remember it just being goofy fun and not really something for him to be touting a 'big reveal' over. I do hold Kev's flicks in the highest regard, but they connected to my life and lifestyle (Mallrat) around the time I saw them. He spoke for a generation, or what some thought they were/wanted to be. We got to see people who acted us on screen and did what we did. Stuff that we could imitate, to an extent. Now it is for nostalgia, respect, and love to a time past. Tarantino, and most other filmmakers for that matter, I just do not have the connection with. The material, ala screenplay, characters, and specific actors, make them more gems to me than do the directors. Then again, I like stuff shot on a handycam too... it is just all a matter of what I am looking for and how it gets to me, at that moment. I suppose I get that. Don't get me wrong, I don't have that connection with Tarantino either, oddly enough. I despise Pulp Fiction and really am mostly barely enticed by what he's coming up with, but I can see how he's placed in a different category. But you're right in that what you resonate with is really all that matters and clearly a lot of people resonated with Smith so maybe just because I don't (other than being a film major and loving Clerks) doesn't mean it isn't possible for others. |
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Post by Word™ on Feb 24, 2017 11:50:52 GMT -5
I do hold Kev's flicks in the highest regard, but they connected to my life and lifestyle (Mallrat) around the time I saw them. He spoke for a generation, or what some thought they were/wanted to be. We got to see people who acted us on screen and did what we did. Stuff that we could imitate, to an extent. Now it is for nostalgia, respect, and love to a time past. Tarantino, and most other filmmakers for that matter, I just do not have the connection with. The material, ala screenplay, characters, and specific actors, make them more gems to me than do the directors. Then again, I like stuff shot on a handycam too... it is just all a matter of what I am looking for and how it gets to me, at that moment. I suppose I get that. Don't get me wrong, I don't have that connection with Tarantino either, oddly enough. I despise Pulp Fiction and really am mostly barely enticed by what he's coming up with, but I can see how he's placed in a different category. But you're right in that what you resonate with is really all that matters and clearly a lot of people resonated with Smith so maybe just because I don't (other than being a film major and loving Clerks) doesn't mean it isn't possible for others. Smith is the "every man" director.. |
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Post by punksnotdead on Feb 24, 2017 13:47:34 GMT -5
I agree with vampiroporvida about Smith being the voice of a generation. He was John Hughes for the mid to late 90s imo. Where Hughes had Weird Science, Ferris Bueller, Breakfast Club, Sixteen Candles, and Uncle Buck, Smith had Clerks, Chasing Amy, Dogma and Mallrats. We were seeing "real people" dealing with real life issues. He tackled religion, young love, gender roles, homosexuality, stereotypes, and he really brought out the essence of what the youth of America had to say at that time. His dialogue, while maybe a bit juvenile to some in retrospect, was meaningful imo. He was passive aggressive satire but also heartfelt comedy. Jersey Girl would be his Curly Sue, too, which is kind of an odd parallel, especially with Clerks II and Home Alone 2 probably being the last great go-round for each writer.
Regardless, I think the reality is that Smith isn't that guy anymore. Which sucks. I think the world grew up, and he along with it, and now he doesn't know how to tap into that world anymore. I'm not blaming him, but what made him special as a writer isn't there anymore. He wrote about what he related to at the time and I think that's why he's tried to go in a completely different direction, plus he's high all of the time. I honestly can't tap into what I cared about at 20 now that I'm in my 30s. I just can't. So because Smith didn't grow as a writer, he was stuck in place.
So I do put those core 4 movies on a pedestal. I liked J&SB well enough and I enjoyed Clerks II but neither mean to me what the others do. I do think Tarantino is in an entirely different league, most specifically as a director, but they're also not really comparable as it pertains to content. I think Tarantino draws so much of his inspiration from the Spaghetti Westerns and Kung Fu movies he loved as an adolescent and now he just funnels that love into each one of his films. I think Tarantino has a very clear identity as a writer, and I think that's something Smith lacks in 2017. Tarantino also has this amazing post 90s body of work. I could argue his stuff over the second part of his career is actually better than the first half. You certainly can't do that with Smith.
I think Smith was incredibly instrumental in the movie industry for a very specific moment in time and that time has passed. It doesn't mean I don't still appreciate that moment though. I just think we're all better off not expecting him to ever be at that level again. Smith himself seems like he stopped chasing that level years ago. In fact, one of my biggest complaints about him to-date is how little confidence he has in his own ability. I think that self doubt is a big reason why his growth was stunted. To be totally fair, his CW stuff has been good. That's probably the greatest use of his skills at this point, both as a comic book guy and director. The Runaway Dinosaur was one of the best single episodes of comic book TV ever created imo.
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Post by TheLastDude on Feb 24, 2017 16:33:36 GMT -5
I agree with vampiroporvida about Smith being the voice of a generation. He was John Hughes for the mid to late 90s imo. Where Hughes had Weird Science, Ferris Bueller, Breakfast Club, Sixteen Candles, and Uncle Buck, Smith had Clerks, Chasing Amy, Dogma and Mallrats. We were seeing "real people" dealing with real life issues. He tackled religion, young love, gender roles, homosexuality, stereotypes, and he really brought out the essence of what the youth of America had to say at that time. His dialogue, while maybe a bit juvenile to some in retrospect, was meaningful imo. He was passive aggressive satire but also heartfelt comedy. Jersey Girl would be his Curly Sue, too, which is kind of an odd parallel, especially with Clerks II and Home Alone 2 probably being the last great go-round for each writer. Regardless, I think the reality is that Smith isn't that guy anymore. Which sucks. I think the world grew up, and he along with it, and now he doesn't know how to tap into that world anymore. I'm not blaming him, but what made him special as a writer isn't there anymore. He wrote about what he related to at the time and I think that's why he's tried to go in a completely different direction, plus he's high all of the time. I honestly can't tap into what I cared about at 20 now that I'm in my 30s. I just can't. So because Smith didn't grow as a writer, he was stuck in place. So I do put those core 4 movies on a pedestal. I liked J&SB well enough and I enjoyed Clerks II but neither mean to me what the others do. I do think Tarantino is in an entirely different league, most specifically as a director, but they're also not really comparable as it pertains to content. I think Tarantino draws so much of his inspiration from the Spaghetti Westerns and Kung Fu movies he loved as an adolescent and now he just funnels that love into each one of his films. I think Tarantino has a very clear identity as a writer, and I think that's something Smith lacks in 2017. Tarantino also has this amazing post 90s body of work. I could argue his stuff over the second part of his career is actually better than the first half. You certainly can't do that with Smith. I think Smith was incredibly instrumental in the movie industry for a very specific moment in time and that time has passed. It doesn't mean I don't still appreciate that moment though. I just think we're all better off not expecting him to ever be at that level again. Smith himself seems like he stopped chasing that level years ago. In fact, one of my biggest complaints about him to-date is how little confidence he has in his own ability. I think that self doubt is a big reason why his growth was stunted. To be totally fair, his CW stuff has been good. That's probably the greatest use of his skills at this point, both as a comic book guy and director. The Runaway Dinosaur was one of the best single episodes of comic book TV ever created imo. That is a really excellent summation. Huzzah! |
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Post by Valbroski on Mar 12, 2017 13:15:50 GMT -5
I really hope one day Mallrats finds a home.. A Netflix mini-series or feature.. I can't believe that Hulu or Crackle or Netflix or Amazon would all pass on Mallrats.. Doesn't make any sense considering Zoolander 2 and Joe Dirt 2 both got funding and distribution. Someone is holding out on Kevin Smith.. A Mallrats in 2017 with all the mainstream Superhero sh*t would have been super interesting and actually super awesome. A Netflix series would be a great idea. |
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Cameron Stone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 16, 2013 18:16:15 GMT -5
Posts: 2,014
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Post by Cameron Stone on Mar 12, 2017 18:01:43 GMT -5
Smith should just do comics for Mallrats 2 and Clerks 3. Then actors/distribution isn't really as massive a problem
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Post by IRS on Mar 12, 2017 22:37:40 GMT -5
Smith should just do comics for Mallrats 2 and Clerks 3. Then actors/distribution isn't really as massive a problem He's mentioned that's what he's going to end up doing on the last SModcast. |
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Post by JC Motors on Mar 15, 2017 11:50:07 GMT -5
I'd rather them try to reboot the animated series. That show was ahead of it's time
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:39:39 GMT -5
hated yoga hosers...
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Post by Mox on Mar 16, 2017 16:55:23 GMT -5
I don't think I hated it, but I'm still pretty confused by the whole thing. Clearly it wasn't made for me, but who was it made for? Teenage girls? Did they watch it? Did they want to? What was Smith's motivation? Was he passionate about the project? Why did he want to make it? ... I don't know. I just don't get it.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 18, 2024 20:11:25 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 17:02:19 GMT -5
I dont get it either...
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Post by vampiroporvida on Mar 19, 2017 18:38:34 GMT -5
Last thing I read is that he may one day release the scripts for c3 and m2 for us to read. Maybe like the Chasing Dogma book or something. I'd buy it.
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