ohernan6
Main Eventer
'Cause That's How I Roll!
Joined on: Jan 20, 2009 17:40:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,670
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Post by ohernan6 on Mar 22, 2017 12:18:27 GMT -5
I dare say Edge was a better heel than Triple H.
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Post by honeybear 619 on Mar 22, 2017 12:20:03 GMT -5
Steve Austin
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Post by ET had AIDS on Mar 22, 2017 12:24:03 GMT -5
I dare say Edge was a better heel than Triple H. I want to just say, the thing with Edge (and more so, E+C...latter days, post-Brood) and also HHH, is that they were both GREAT heels (or all, including Christian, I guess), for sure..... but they were also the likable type of heel. Does that seem to make sense to anyone else or was it just me when a bit younger? HHH and Angle when Angle had been heel are both choices I would make, as well as Edge or Edge and Christian as a tag-team/duo which is fair to count, I think. But the thing about all 4 of these is they were likable even as heels to me. I dunno, does anyone else feel that way? Especially HHH. I loved him as a heel. He was my favorite for a long time, and even though he would get over when he was a face for me, I still preferred him a heel 100x over and always would. Just curious if anyone else kinda felt like HHH and Edge and some others there above just felt likeable even when playing a heel.... esp. HHH....
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ohernan6
Main Eventer
'Cause That's How I Roll!
Joined on: Jan 20, 2009 17:40:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,670
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Post by ohernan6 on Mar 22, 2017 12:24:32 GMT -5
Heel: Flair. He was a guy you loved to hate, and even when he was portarying a face, it was more along the lines of "what's his endgame? Who's he turning on?" You just knew he was a diabolical villain in the same vein as Lex Luthor. Heel Turn: Hollywood Hogan. As a heel, the only thing heelish about him was being cowardly and back rakes. I firmly believed that Hogan's run as a heel was only successful because of the turn from nowhere. Aside from the Starrcade 97 showdown with Sting, there weren't very many moments where Hollywood was perceived as largely a pure bad guy. Most of the audience was split, at best, if they weren't just outright cheering for the NWO. Scott Hall doing the survey was a total babyface move. I consider Hogan to easily be one of the best babyfaces of all time, but I don't think his heel work, in and of itself, was really that great. The heel turn at Bash at the Beach was bigger than anything else he did as a heel imo. Most of the heel tactics by the NWO were just run-ins from other guys, more so than what Hogan was doing as an individual. I know he used the bat, and belt at times and what not, but I just never viewed him in that top echelon of heel talent. His heel turn is arguably the greatest ever though. So I definitely think you're right that it was one great heel moment and then just a wave of "cool heel" popularity. CM Punk desecrated the ashes of Paul Bearer. Rick Rude had Jake the Snake's wife airbrushed over his junk and gyrated her face. Roddy Piper kicked Cyndi Lauper. Ric Flair, at like 60 years old, told everyone in the audience he could kiss every woman in attendance, even the fat one, and make her cry, WOOOO!!!! Hogan's biggest heel move was dropping the leg on a guy. I mean Hogan's biggest heel moment outside of Bash at the Beach was probably the Finger Poke of Doom, and, again, his most dastardly move there was just pinning a guy. I relate that a lot to what HHH was doing around the 2003/2004 period. It wasn't what he was doing, it was how he was being booked. When I think of dastardly hellish moves, the first one that always comes to my mind is Randy Orton DDTing Stephanie and then kissing her as she was unconscious... and Triple H had to watch as he was handcuffed. That version of Randy Orton was amazing.
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Post by ET had AIDS on Mar 22, 2017 12:24:54 GMT -5
I thought he did a pretty great job too, but at the same time, he was even more over-the-top when it came to being easy to like for a heel. Like I mentioned about HHH. But I really did enjoy his run as a heel, or runs.
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Post by ET had AIDS on Mar 22, 2017 12:25:24 GMT -5
One I forgot to mention who I didn't see in anyone's reply yet....does the boss count?
Vince has to be one of the best heels of all time, period.
Edit: Jericho was also a pretty damn good heel. I liked him as a heel a hell of a lot more as a face, and liked to dislike him, too. Different than the dynamic w/ HHH I had though I still love/d HHH as a heel....and in general, he is a favorite.
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ohernan6
Main Eventer
'Cause That's How I Roll!
Joined on: Jan 20, 2009 17:40:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,670
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Post by ohernan6 on Mar 22, 2017 12:27:15 GMT -5
I dare say Edge was a better heel than Triple H. I want to just say, the thing with Edge (and more so, E+C...latter days, post-Brood) and also HHH, is that they were both GREAT heels (or all, including Christian, I guess), for sure..... but they were also the likable type of heel. Does that seem to make sense to anyone else or was it just me when a bit younger? HHH and Angle when Angle had been heel are both choices I would make, as well as Edge or Edge and Christian as a tag-team/duo which is fair to count, I think. But the thing about all 4 of these is they were likable even as heels to me. I dunno, does anyone else feel that way? Especially HHH. I loved him as a heel. He was my favorite for a long time, and even though he would get over when he was a face for me, I still preferred him a heel 100x over and always would. Just curious if anyone else kinda felt like HHH and Edge and some others there above just felt likeable even when playing a heel.... esp. HHH.... I was leaning more towards the Rated R Superstar version of Edge. On paper, he is everything I would find cool about being a heel, but I don't know how he made me still get angry with him.
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Post by ET had AIDS on Mar 22, 2017 12:30:34 GMT -5
I want to just say, the thing with Edge (and more so, E+C...latter days, post-Brood) and also HHH, is that they were both GREAT heels (or all, including Christian, I guess), for sure..... but they were also the likable type of heel. Does that seem to make sense to anyone else or was it just me when a bit younger? HHH and Angle when Angle had been heel are both choices I would make, as well as Edge or Edge and Christian as a tag-team/duo which is fair to count, I think. But the thing about all 4 of these is they were likable even as heels to me. I dunno, does anyone else feel that way? Especially HHH. I loved him as a heel. He was my favorite for a long time, and even though he would get over when he was a face for me, I still preferred him a heel 100x over and always would. Just curious if anyone else kinda felt like HHH and Edge and some others there above just felt likeable even when playing a heel.... esp. HHH.... I was leaning more towards the Rated R Superstar version of Edge. On paper, he is everything I would find cool about being a heel, but I don't know how he made me still get angry with him. For me it was much more E+C together. They were like George Castanza or something. Just so goddamn dumb it hurt, but in a good way. So it was hard to hate them for being heels but they were still so good at it during the era of tag teams and stables being a pretty big deal still. I think tag teams are back more now, but I haven't watched for a good 3-4yrs really.
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Post by T R W on Mar 22, 2017 12:31:44 GMT -5
Vickie Guerrero
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robbutler01
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 10, 2013 15:10:27 GMT -5
Posts: 1,267
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Post by robbutler01 on Mar 22, 2017 12:32:36 GMT -5
WOOOOOOO the nature boy for me!
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Post by Sizzle on Mar 22, 2017 13:16:33 GMT -5
Triple H hands down.
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Post by TheChamp420 on Mar 22, 2017 13:46:33 GMT -5
Edge was one of the best in his Rated R era
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Biff Slamkovich™
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Nov 21, 2009 22:53:58 GMT -5
Posts: 3,590
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Post by Biff Slamkovich™ on Mar 22, 2017 14:31:44 GMT -5
Ever? Hollywood Hogan in my opinion.
Within WWE? Vince McMahon
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
Posts: 2,843
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Post by jakksking1 on Mar 22, 2017 15:02:27 GMT -5
I'm going to throw an honorable mention to the Big Bossman. Fed a dead dog to its owner, and stole Big Show's dead fathers body. Absolute sociopath
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Infinite
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 27, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -5
Posts: 2,608
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Post by Infinite on Mar 22, 2017 16:11:24 GMT -5
Strictly speaking Ric Flair is my pick.
But honestly, all in all I really believe John Cena is a top candidate. In a time where alignments matter less, and heels often get cheered more than faces, I think Cena has been without question the most effective bad guy of the last decade. Everyone he wrestles is the underdog, and he's the closest thing this generation has to 1999 Vince Mcmahon when you consider how strongly he represents the company. I think WWE knows it too. They didn't have him put over Punk and Bryan during their big pushes for nothing.
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Post by Rude Awakening on Mar 22, 2017 16:19:23 GMT -5
I despised Edge and Randy Orton growing up
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Hitman Bono on Mar 22, 2017 17:03:40 GMT -5
I wonder how many people know the difference between "favorite" and "best"?
People really need to clarify the eras in which their referencing. Because when someone says, "HHH" are you talking his 95-98 run, the 99-01 one, or his last heel run, 02-06? Because the only time that HHH could count in any way was when he was riding backseat to The Rock and Austin during the 2000 run. In reality though, he had jack sh*t to do with ratings or buy rates. Crash Holly would've drawn the same numbers as the top heel during the 2000 year. Him being the lead on RAW (02) was one of the most catastrophic things to ever happen to the company (really, only comparable to the 92 scandals in terms of losing money). So, if you're saying he's your favorite, that's awesome, I'm glad you enjoy his work. But if you're saying "best", then you are factually wrong.
But you know who totally did everything that HHH wanted to do as a heel? Edge.
Heel Edge was everything Heel HHH wanted to be. He was cool, he DREW RATINGS, he SOLD TICKETS, and he POPPED BUYRATES.
I'm sure that the people who said "Miz" are the same kinda people who call all of their video game systems "Nintendo".
Another guy who doesn't get enough love from modern day marks is Earthquake. He did MONSTER numbers with Hogan in 1990. Had he feuded with Warrior instead of Hogan at that time, Warrior's run might've actually been a success.
Anyways...
"Who's the best heel in the history of the WWE?" Oh, easy. Superstar Billy Graham. Dude was an actual draw as champion. He changed the territory, which in change, changed the business.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 25, 2024 17:32:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 17:11:15 GMT -5
Vince McMahon, Roddy Piper, Ric Flair, Andy Kaufman
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 25, 2024 17:32:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 17:12:53 GMT -5
I've got to say Triple H. He's just a natural bastard.
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DIESEL
Main Eventer
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Joined on: Jul 11, 2013 12:01:08 GMT -5
Posts: 2,372
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Post by DIESEL on Mar 22, 2017 17:29:16 GMT -5
I feel like I'm gonna get yelled at for this...
But look. The Miz does what he can to make a gimmick good. Nobody in the business could have taken that crappy Holywood gimmick and make it look as good as he did. I genuinely feel invested in the program when he cuts a promo.
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