@AnHonorablePod
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Nov 21, 2012 13:50:44 GMT -5
Posts: 270
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Sept 7, 2018 20:51:32 GMT -5
How is this any different than WWE auctioning off items from their PPV's for thousands of dollars year after year? It's not shameful, it's good business. Nobody knows who Jon Draper is either, so some non-credible twitter guy complaining he can't get something for free when there is a market to pay for it, indicates he's trying to get his name out there. Don't see Mike Johnson, Dave Meltzer, Bruce Mitchell, or any real wrestling journalist even mentioning the sale of event used items. You know why? The answer is because WWE & TNA do this ALL THE TIME. Welcome to marketing 101. I agree they do it all the time. Never said it was fine when they do it themselves. However, that's WWE, the number 1 wrestling promotion, not an indy show. Which is why i saw it more ridiculous after finding out all the high prices they were charging at Starrcast. 500 bucks sounds more reasonable IMO. Key words, in my opinion. I feel its wrong, you don't. I'll agree to disagree I'll follow up with this, do you want them to operate like a cheap indy or try to give off that big league feel? It's not IWA Mid-South or AAW where indy wrestling is cost effective. This is a major league promotion (ROH has a lot to do with ALL IN as does NJPW). Yes, Cody & The Bucks paid for this show but make no mistake about it, this was not an "indy show." Money is relative to the value of the people involved, a 450K gate, over a million dollars in overall gross. There's absolutely no reason they shouldn't try to take every dollar out of it they can.
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Post by LK3 on Sept 7, 2018 20:52:09 GMT -5
Was he critical of it for the possibility of hurting her or for the legitimacy of wrestling a 9 year old? Or both?
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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Sept 7, 2018 20:57:41 GMT -5
Was he critical of it for the possibility of hurting her or for the legitimacy of wrestling a 9 year old? Or both? I wanna say both, but more for the legitimacy of wrestling. Basically to Cornette, if it looks too much like a comedy, it doesn't belong in wrestling
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@brit_figs
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Sept 25, 2009 13:02:15 GMT -5
Posts: 3,729
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Post by @brit_figs on Sept 8, 2018 5:04:48 GMT -5
Don’t understand all the hate for Janela, he is a great worker!
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Post by k5 on Sept 8, 2018 9:15:35 GMT -5
Was he critical of it for the possibility of hurting her or for the legitimacy of wrestling a 9 year old? Or both? I wanna say both, but more for the legitimacy of wrestling. Basically to Cornette, if it looks too much like a comedy, it doesn't belong in wrestling cornette is also critical of the ‘video game wrestlers’ he calls them, which is that a lot of the njpw 5 star matches and Indy matches everyone loves are just guys acting like they’re in video games and not properly telling any story with ring psychology. there is some merit to what he says, but overall a lot of it is just bickering. good to see that even stubborn cornette realized the true success this event was and how big of a deal it was for the industry.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Sept 8, 2018 15:36:20 GMT -5
I didn't see Zero Hour, but I've just finished watching the main show and me that was extraordinary. I'm curious, what specifically did you find to be extraordinary? Are you saying the accomplishments of the parties involved, or the actual content of the show was extraordinary, and if you're saying the show was, I'd be curious to know what you felt was so extraordinary about it. The accomplishments of the parties involved.
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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Sept 8, 2018 17:59:09 GMT -5
Don’t understand all the hate for Janela, he is a great worker! I personally was impressed by him after All In. First match i watched of his, too
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 27, 2024 21:19:22 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 22:34:07 GMT -5
Don’t understand all the hate for Janela, he is a great worker! And a Great Booker Too, his Shows in GCW are soo much fun.
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Post by punksnotdead on Sept 10, 2018 9:48:32 GMT -5
I wanna say both, but more for the legitimacy of wrestling. Basically to Cornette, if it looks too much like a comedy, it doesn't belong in wrestling cornette is also critical of the ‘video game wrestlers’ he calls them, which is that a lot of the njpw 5 star matches and Indy matches everyone loves are just guys acting like they’re in video games and not properly telling any story with ring psychology. there is some merit to what he says, but overall a lot of it is just bickering. good to see that even stubborn cornette realized the true success this event was and how big of a deal it was for the industry. Most of the things Cornette complains about aren't even true. 99% of the New Japan matches have better in-ring storytelling than anything WWE is even doing. So if he really, truly, likes that old school, work a body part, shine, heat, shine, heat, comeback, finish, then guys like Okada, Naito and Omega working 45 minutes of those types of matches virtually every single night they perform should be his favorite wrestlers. The Bucks have had some great storytelling matches this year as well, specifically with the Lovers. Okada/Omega worked three matches in a row in order to tell the story of Omega finally hitting the OWA on Okada to get a pin, and it wasn't even for the title at that point. The only reason Cornette sh*ts on any of those guys is because he knows it gets people talking. He's leeching off of their popularity. He's the Rush Limbaugh of pro wrestling commentary. He says all the mindless things that triggers his audience and he digs into that character. Him breaking character to praise them is indicative of how special that show ended up being, but credit where credit is due in that it was the mature thing for him to do. Plus, the NWA title match was booked right out of 1981. I've never had any issue with comedy wrestling. Guys like Yano, Joey Ryan, or Colt Cabana don't take anything away from the top of the card. Obviously what DDT does is appealing to an audience that enjoys wrestling outside of the box. It's performance art and art comes in many shapes and sizes. I wish more shows had the variety of All In. I wish WWE had a guy like Cabana so we could get those Santino type matches to breakup the monotony of 5 hours of the same match one after the other. Paul Heyman really got this concept with ECW imo. You could laugh, cry, want to kill a guy, want to be the guy and nail the girl. There are no rules. Cornette, and everyone else, needs to stop pretending his subjective viewpoint, which is 40 years old now, is the way things have to go. Joey Ryan dick flipping Hangman was hilarious. I was still able to view Omega/Pentagon as a legitimate wrestling contest like 20 minutes later.
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Post by k5 on Sept 10, 2018 11:25:31 GMT -5
cornette is also critical of the ‘video game wrestlers’ he calls them, which is that a lot of the njpw 5 star matches and Indy matches everyone loves are just guys acting like they’re in video games and not properly telling any story with ring psychology. there is some merit to what he says, but overall a lot of it is just bickering. good to see that even stubborn cornette realized the true success this event was and how big of a deal it was for the industry. Most of the things Cornette complains about aren't even true. 99% of the New Japan matches have better in-ring storytelling than anything WWE is even doing. So if he really, truly, likes that old school, work a body part, shine, heat, shine, heat, comeback, finish, then guys like Okada, Naito and Omega working 45 minutes of those types of matches virtually every single night they perform should be his favorite wrestlers. The Bucks have had some great storytelling matches this year as well, specifically with the Lovers. Okada/Omega worked three matches in a row in order to tell the story of Omega finally hitting the OWA on Okada to get a pin, and it wasn't even for the title at that point. The only reason Cornette sh*ts on any of those guys is because he knows it gets people talking. He's leeching off of their popularity. He's the Rush Limbaugh of pro wrestling commentary. He says all the mindless things that triggers his audience and he digs into that character. Him breaking character to praise them is indicative of how special that show ended up being, but credit where credit is due in that it was the mature thing for him to do. Plus, the NWA title match was booked right out of 1981. I've never had any issue with comedy wrestling. Guys like Yano, Joey Ryan, or Colt Cabana don't take anything away from the top of the card. Obviously what DDT does is appealing to an audience that enjoys wrestling outside of the box. It's performance art and art comes in many shapes and sizes. I wish more shows had the variety of All In. I wish WWE had a guy like Cabana so we could get those Santino type matches to breakup the monotony of 5 hours of the same match one after the other. Paul Heyman really got this concept with ECW imo. You could laugh, cry, want to kill a guy, want to be the guy and nail the girl. There are no rules. Cornette, and everyone else, needs to stop pretending his subjective viewpoint, which is 40 years old now, is the way things have to go. Joey Ryan dick flipping Hangman was hilarious. I was still able to view Omega/Pentagon as a legitimate wrestling contest like 20 minutes later. by and large I agree with you - I think the majority of what cornette says is meant to rile up his viewers and keep his podcast relevant. but I think he only began doing that once he realized the momentum comments towards those guys got him - he’d voiced those opinions for years, particularly after his ROH experience. I also agree that the majority of today’s quality matches are coming from njpw and there’s no argument to that. but I do also see what he means by the video game comparison - flair/steamboat didn’t have to drop each other on their heads 20 times a match. but I think that says more about today’s wrestling audience than the talent. even during that Omega/Pentagon match, I’ve seen pentagon kayfabe break people’s arms with that move of his, yet Kenny is using that arm within a few minutes after the move and only going back to selling when he feels like it. but that’s an issue that’s widespread in matches from all companies. and yeah, the comedy stuff is just jim being out of touch. it’s fine to hate it, but don’t act as if the worm didn’t exist, or the stink face, or any other number of wrestling comedy acts that break the illusion. either way, good points.
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Post by punksnotdead on Sept 10, 2018 12:21:53 GMT -5
Most of the things Cornette complains about aren't even true. 99% of the New Japan matches have better in-ring storytelling than anything WWE is even doing. So if he really, truly, likes that old school, work a body part, shine, heat, shine, heat, comeback, finish, then guys like Okada, Naito and Omega working 45 minutes of those types of matches virtually every single night they perform should be his favorite wrestlers. The Bucks have had some great storytelling matches this year as well, specifically with the Lovers. Okada/Omega worked three matches in a row in order to tell the story of Omega finally hitting the OWA on Okada to get a pin, and it wasn't even for the title at that point. The only reason Cornette sh*ts on any of those guys is because he knows it gets people talking. He's leeching off of their popularity. He's the Rush Limbaugh of pro wrestling commentary. He says all the mindless things that triggers his audience and he digs into that character. Him breaking character to praise them is indicative of how special that show ended up being, but credit where credit is due in that it was the mature thing for him to do. Plus, the NWA title match was booked right out of 1981. I've never had any issue with comedy wrestling. Guys like Yano, Joey Ryan, or Colt Cabana don't take anything away from the top of the card. Obviously what DDT does is appealing to an audience that enjoys wrestling outside of the box. It's performance art and art comes in many shapes and sizes. I wish more shows had the variety of All In. I wish WWE had a guy like Cabana so we could get those Santino type matches to breakup the monotony of 5 hours of the same match one after the other. Paul Heyman really got this concept with ECW imo. You could laugh, cry, want to kill a guy, want to be the guy and nail the girl. There are no rules. Cornette, and everyone else, needs to stop pretending his subjective viewpoint, which is 40 years old now, is the way things have to go. Joey Ryan dick flipping Hangman was hilarious. I was still able to view Omega/Pentagon as a legitimate wrestling contest like 20 minutes later. by and large I agree with you - I think the majority of what cornette says is meant to rile up his viewers and keep his podcast relevant. but I think he only began doing that once he realized the momentum comments towards those guys got him - he’d voiced those opinions for years, particularly after his ROH experience. I also agree that the majority of today’s quality matches are coming from njpw and there’s no argument to that. but I do also see what he means by the video game comparison - flair/steamboat didn’t have to drop each other on their heads 20 times a match. but I think that says more about today’s wrestling audience than the talent. even during that Omega/Pentagon match, I’ve seen pentagon kayfabe break people’s arms with that move of his, yet Kenny is using that arm within a few minutes after the move and only going back to selling when he feels like it. but that’s an issue that’s widespread in matches from all companies. and yeah, the comedy stuff is just jim being out of touch. it’s fine to hate it, but don’t act as if the worm didn’t exist, or the stink face, or any other number of wrestling comedy acts that break the illusion. either way, good points. Agreed on that point with Penta. Not sure if that was just Kenny not being familiar with how devastating that spot was supposed to be but that was really my only, albeit tiny, complaint with that match. You hit the nail on the head with the pacing of the in-ring style. It's just faster and more fluid, and really more athletic than it's probably ever been. I don't think the majority of the audience would even be receptive to the style Cornette wants to return. You can argue a great story is a great story, but once you've exposed fans to a specific pace then dialing it back, particularly for just normal TV matches and weekly shows, isn't getting over. We get boring chants out of the WWE audience the second guys go to a chin lock. Fans don't even have the tension spans to slow clap a comeback correctly anymore either. So the business has shifted with the instant gratification age of the audience and you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube on that front. Not to mention, ECW and WCW broke the more traditional NWA/WWF style match structure a long time ago. The US audience evolved with Jerry Lynn vs RVD, Mysterio vs Guerrero, and guys like Benoit and Jericho, who were mixing Lucha and Japanese wrestling in with their work. So while you do see places like PWG whose fans have a specific taste in wrestling, which definitely isn't for everyone, I think most of what we see across the board is a healthy evolution of what came before it.
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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Sept 11, 2018 0:19:18 GMT -5
cornette is also critical of the ‘video game wrestlers’ he calls them, which is that a lot of the njpw 5 star matches and Indy matches everyone loves are just guys acting like they’re in video games and not properly telling any story with ring psychology. there is some merit to what he says, but overall a lot of it is just bickering. good to see that even stubborn cornette realized the true success this event was and how big of a deal it was for the industry. Most of the things Cornette complains about aren't even true. 99% of the New Japan matches have better in-ring storytelling than anything WWE is even doing. So if he really, truly, likes that old school, work a body part, shine, heat, shine, heat, comeback, finish, then guys like Okada, Naito and Omega working 45 minutes of those types of matches virtually every single night they perform should be his favorite wrestlers. The Bucks have had some great storytelling matches this year as well, specifically with the Lovers. Okada/Omega worked three matches in a row in order to tell the story of Omega finally hitting the OWA on Okada to get a pin, and it wasn't even for the title at that point. The only reason Cornette sh*ts on any of those guys is because he knows it gets people talking. He's leeching off of their popularity. He's the Rush Limbaugh of pro wrestling commentary. He says all the mindless things that triggers his audience and he digs into that character. Him breaking character to praise them is indicative of how special that show ended up being, but credit where credit is due in that it was the mature thing for him to do. Plus, the NWA title match was booked right out of 1981. I've never had any issue with comedy wrestling. Guys like Yano, Joey Ryan, or Colt Cabana don't take anything away from the top of the card. Obviously what DDT does is appealing to an audience that enjoys wrestling outside of the box. It's performance art and art comes in many shapes and sizes. I wish more shows had the variety of All In. I wish WWE had a guy like Cabana so we could get those Santino type matches to breakup the monotony of 5 hours of the same match one after the other. Paul Heyman really got this concept with ECW imo. You could laugh, cry, want to kill a guy, want to be the guy and nail the girl. There are no rules. Cornette, and everyone else, needs to stop pretending his subjective viewpoint, which is 40 years old now, is the way things have to go. Joey Ryan dick flipping Hangman was hilarious. I was still able to view Omega/Pentagon as a legitimate wrestling contest like 20 minutes later. I agree with wholeheartedly with everything you said, except for finding Joey Ryan d*** flipping Page. Personally I got tired of that act, i used to find it funny, sorta still do when he does it with women, not so much with the guys. Different strokes for different folks. But yeah, Cornette and anyone who thinks like him needs to quit the agenda that the way it was in the 80s is the way it should be. There's room for every type of wrestling. Once he started comparing Omega and Ibushi to Hitler because Omega wrestled a little girl, and Ibushi fought a blow up doll (which BTW, is the reason I'm a big fan of his, not that he fought it, but that he made it look so realistic), I was like "Ok, i can't listen to this anymore". You might have a point with him ranting on them cause he knows people will talk.
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hammer
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 12, 2009 2:30:31 GMT -5
Posts: 2,619
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Post by hammer on Sept 11, 2018 15:07:27 GMT -5
i love listening to cornette talk about wrestling. what a brilliant mind. but yes, some of his ideas are antiquated. how can you really knock kenny omega?
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Post by jayrod2009 on Sept 11, 2018 16:16:30 GMT -5
i love listening to cornette talk about wrestling. what a brilliant mind. but yes, some of his ideas are antiquated. how can you really knock kenny omega? Cornette has lost his mind over the years. He seems to forget that he was once a fan, but he is willing to spew his hate on anyone that likes a genre of wrestling that opposes his 1980’s version of wrasslin. I have lost the ability to stomach his podcast with all the far left rhetoric and political rants. I enjoy his stories of being in the buisness and meeting fans, but once his engine starts to purr on his hillbilly hot rod, I shut his podcast off.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Sept 15, 2018 1:41:50 GMT -5
Was he critical of it for the possibility of hurting her or for the legitimacy of wrestling a 9 year old? Or both? I wanna say both, but more for the legitimacy of wrestling. Basically to Cornette, if it looks too much like a comedy, it doesn't belong in wrestling Well it ing doesn't. No nine year old girl has any place wrestling a GROWN ass man. The fact that people think this makes any sense shows how far we've fallen.
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Post by jayrod2009 on Sept 15, 2018 9:00:15 GMT -5
I wanna say both, but more for the legitimacy of wrestling. Basically to Cornette, if it looks too much like a comedy, it doesn't belong in wrestling Well it ing doesn't. No nine year old girl has any place wrestling a GROWN ass man. The fact that people think this makes any sense shows how far we've fallen. Pro wrestling started out as a carnival act. Some of that has found its way back into wrestling over the past decade. Its entertainment.
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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Sept 15, 2018 19:06:42 GMT -5
Well it ing doesn't. No nine year old girl has any place wrestling a GROWN ass man. The fact that people think this makes any sense shows how far we've fallen. Pro wrestling started out as a carnival act. Some of that has found its way back into wrestling over the past decade. Its entertainment. Exactly. If they're not really connecting, if the outcomes are pre determined, its entertainment
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Sept 15, 2018 20:09:18 GMT -5
Well it ing doesn't. No nine year old girl has any place wrestling a GROWN ass man. The fact that people think this makes any sense shows how far we've fallen. Pro wrestling started out as a carnival act. Some of that has found its way back into wrestling over the past decade. Its entertainment. Let's get one thing straight. That ACT was a Take On All Comers challenge that lived and died based on the ability of the established wrestler from the stable to fend off all challengers to preserve the money for the promoter! That doesn't make it ing clowns in a circle jerk pantomime crap show! Fun and Stupid are not the same thing! You can be wildly entertaining and not take a steaming dump on the craft for the rest of us! Midgets wrestling is entertaining. Heels getting tricked by midgets is entertaining. Wrestlers saying funny things or potentially pulling a practical joke on their opponents instead of trying to win the match can be the moment that steals the show, but none of those things destroy my ability to believe that the two rugged light heavyweights trading holds and strikes for half an hour as a legitimate and respectable spectacle. I can even deal with wrestlers choosing insane attires if they can come up with some justification in the booking, or even acts of perversion such as taking the piss out of your opponents like Adrian Street or Goldust, but Joey Ryan is where you have to draw the line, because otherwise, you are saying to the world "I have no self-respect and don't mind be thought an uncultured wit by my peers and by history.
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Post by jayrod2009 on Sept 15, 2018 20:40:19 GMT -5
Pro wrestling started out as a carnival act. Some of that has found its way back into wrestling over the past decade. Its entertainment. Let's get one thing straight. That ACT was a Take On All Comers challenge that lived and died based on the ability of the established wrestler from the stable to fend off all challengers to preserve the money for the promoter! That doesn't make it ing clowns in a circle jerk pantomime crap show! Fun and Stupid are not the same thing! You can be wildly entertaining and not take a steaming dump on the craft for the rest of us! Midgets wrestling is entertaining. Heels getting tricked by midgets is entertaining. Wrestlers saying funny things or potentially pulling a practical joke on their opponents instead of trying to win the match can be the moment that steals the show, but none of those things destroy my ability to believe that the two rugged light heavyweights trading holds and strikes for half an hour as a legitimate and respectable spectacle. I can even deal with wrestlers choosing insane attires if they can come up with some justification in the booking, or even acts of perversion such as taking the piss out of your opponents like Adrian Street or Goldust, but Joey Ryan is where you have to draw the line, because otherwise, you are saying to the world "I have no self-respect and don't mind be thought an uncultured wit by my peers and by history. You take wrestling way too seriously. You gotta take a step back from mirroring the “It’s still real to me damn it” persona. Robocop was in WCW teaming with Sting, We had a guy in a stormtrooper bucket as a big surprise. We have voodoo witch doctors, drunks, burned dead brothers, the undead, giants, midgets, studdering insest ridden brothers, prisoners, inmates, prison workers, luchadores, masked chainsaw weilding madmen, grown men that barked, grown women that barked, sumo wrestlers, a wrestler that used his large nasty ass as a gimmick, a list of 1,001 holds, a dog turned to a meal, a funeral, another funeral, a dead women molested at her funeral, we’ve had god wrestle, the devil wrestle, the devils favorite children wrestle, we have seen a kiss army member wrestle, we’ve seen Juggalos, Biggelows, Jiggleoes, Bimboes, Steve O’s, and Rhino’s. We’ve had hardcore matches with sticks, bricks, tacks, Big Mac’s, tables, Mable’s, fire and brimestone, and so much wild crazy unbelievable sh** and you are hung up on Joey Ryan “Killing the business?” We have Val Venis lose his penis to a katana from a group with Taka, and you can’t get past Joey Ryan flipping people with his member? We watched Sable bare it all, Spanky streak through a Smackdown Crowd, Katie Vick, Vickie Guerrero’s EXCUUUSE MEEEE, Holla Holla Holla Playa, a man who ate worms and smached a clock, but you can’t get pasted Joeys... Look. Its wrestling. The man’s man’s soap opera. An escape. A sport. An entertainment show. I would watch Dragon Dragon vs Joey ryan a thousand times before I said its not entertaining. If I wanted legitimate sports, I’d watch UFC. But I don’t pay money for something that has the potential of ending 10 seconds in. I know I’m getting my value for my dollar.
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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Sept 16, 2018 0:32:52 GMT -5
Ok,i think this thread is done.
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