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Post by The Brain on Dec 19, 2017 12:51:08 GMT -5
Brian Zane hits the nail right on the head with this video.
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Post by Angel Beast on Dec 19, 2017 13:55:25 GMT -5
He’s absolutely right. While they weren’t the best wrestler I loved guys like Boogeyman and Kizarny because they had interesting characters. Same with Pirate Paul Burchill.
Seriously how many All-American/ Amateur Wrestlers do they have now? And how many “I’m a tough guy whole only cares about prize fighting” do they have now. It’s bland.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 19, 2017 13:55:30 GMT -5
When wrestling discussion on the internet started to take off, there was a lot of "no gimmicks needed, let them WRESTLE, workrate rules, NJPW" type stuff. Basically everyone just parroted Meltzer's opinions on what wrestling should be like. That then led to the kids who were hardcore fans who wanted to become wrestlers all doing so with that mindset... And we are now at the stage where those kids are the wrestlers. Wrestling is now more about superkicks and flips than characters and storylines.
There's also the difficulty of sustaining a real gimmick in the current system. Back when wrestlers were cops/rich businessmen/jungle savages, you didn't see the same guy every week. You'd see him once a month or so, killing a jobber in two minutes. Now, Bray Wyatt gets half an hour of screentime every week, and he's overexposed and dull as a result, and his hokey gimmicky stuff seems out of place with most of the show.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Dec 19, 2017 14:11:50 GMT -5
Characters draw and are needed to get wrestlers over. Look back at the 80's and 90's nearly everyone from that period are remembered and completely stood out from one and other.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 14:14:37 GMT -5
The world as a whole grew up. No kid is gonna wanna watch some guy pretending he is a pirate. 12 year olds these days are all about snapchat nudes and R-Rated movies. They don't wanna be treated like children anymore. Way of the world.
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robbutler01
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 10, 2013 15:10:27 GMT -5
Posts: 1,267
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Post by robbutler01 on Dec 19, 2017 14:59:36 GMT -5
I agree and no one stands out anymore because they all use the same music, moves, similar ring gear etc. People have been saying the new mattel retro figs are all wearing black and aren't as good as the hasbros the line are based on but the truth is they are pretty much exactly how the stars are now. It's a shame but years ago everyone said no more characters let the wrestlers be themselves and now it's the complete opposite. A lot of the current stars are just about the workrate and while they can put on great matches they cant entertain like an Austin or Rock did and aren't given chance to stand out in the scripted product that it is today. Maybe a colourful gimmick would give them chance to gain some momentum? I can say now I wouldn't have remembered some guy called kevin wrestling in black trunks but I do remember the former convict in the orange suit jumping out if the crowd and beating up the former prison guard - even if he more remembered for his run in with Vince lol
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Post by bababooey on Dec 19, 2017 15:27:24 GMT -5
The world as a whole grew up. No kid is gonna wanna watch some guy pretending he is a pirate. 12 year olds these days are all about snapchat nudes and R-Rated movies. They don't wanna be treated like children anymore. Way of the world. You’re right to an extent. I haven’t watched the video yet, so I don’t know if he’s talking exclusively about gimmicky characters, but wrestlers today don’t really have any kind of character at all. Stone Cold wasn’t running around dressed like a pirate, but he was one hell of a character. His actions and patterns were consistent with who he was on TV. A lot of wrestlers today are generic and walk around like they think you should get over solely based on how many moves they can do and how fast they can do them. Wrestlers today seem to act in whatever way is convenient for the moment.
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Post by The Brain on Dec 19, 2017 15:48:02 GMT -5
In-ring work aside, majority of the guys today have just regular names. That just makes it bland and boring. Where's the creativity?
I'll tell you guys this if Raw was 2 hours,had 2 guys in the booth and had characters I would tune in every week like the old days.
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Post by k5 on Dec 19, 2017 16:14:38 GMT -5
you can blame focus on workrate, you can blame society changing, or you can blame something else but until the blame falls on purely lack of creative direction then we’re still throwing darts blindfolded. and the modern day stock driven corporate wwe doesn’t allow freedom to be creative.
if you’re a wrestling fan it is a fabulous time for true alternatives. the wwe, and this board’s popularity have dwindled because there is no reason for interest.
honestly, it shouldn’t be the least bit surprising that the wwe is a stagnant boring hole for wrestling in 2017 - brands are so overprotected and on their tippie toys about any potential controversy.
considering how many women have sued Vince for sexual allegations, it wouldn’t be too surprising for an eventual controversy to ensue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 16:15:09 GMT -5
There are plenty of gimmick in the WWE today. People forgetting the age of too many gimmicks went out after the New Generation, because it was pretty much garbage.
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Post by marino13 on Dec 19, 2017 17:09:00 GMT -5
Here's the thing, if WWE saddled Nakamura, Balor, or AJ Styles with a gimmick, people online would have went ape-s**t crazy. With today's product, you have half the crowd who doesn't want anyone to have a gimmick. They want every match to be a 45 minute classic. They want Meltzer to give it seven stars. Then the other half wants the glory days of 80's wrestling. They want everyone to have a side profession.
Imagine Dean Ambrose as an angel sent to Earth to eradicate the evil forces of Samoa Joe's cannibal blood cult. It wouldn't work. WWE tries gimmicks. But like Brian said, everyone wants to be bad-ass versions of themselves. Well unfortunately, that's what most fans wanna see. Cartoony or unrealistic characters just don't work anymore. And today's fans crap all over them. Look at Adam Rose. Bayley. No Way Jose. The Ascension. The Vaudevillians. All have gimmicks that fell flat.
That being said, I do feel WWE needs to flush out everyone's characters more. Why does Balor paint his face? Why are the Good Brothers in WWE? Why is Samoa Joe so damn angry? Why is Bobby Roode constantly saying Glorious? Explain who they are, explain their motives, and people will will become invested. Give fans more of a reason to care.
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Post by RybackV1 on Dec 19, 2017 17:18:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 17:22:27 GMT -5
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hbkowns
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 15, 2011 23:33:52 GMT -5
Posts: 4,249
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Post by hbkowns on Dec 19, 2017 18:00:56 GMT -5
Every time they try a gimmick-heavy based character, it flops. John Cena is the biggest star of the decade, and I don’t consider him gimmickie. Gimmicks are dead, it’s character-driven. They have plenty of them. And no, I think it’s preposterous to think that the business is flat because there’s no gimmicks. It’s how they book the talent and where they fill the spots at. They’re doing it all wrong at the moment, that’s why it’s flat.
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Post by Triple S: POOR on Dec 19, 2017 18:03:26 GMT -5
Wrestling evolves.
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Post by bababooey on Dec 19, 2017 18:34:26 GMT -5
Here's the thing, if WWE saddled Nakamura, Balor, or AJ Styles with a gimmick, people online would have went ape-s**t crazy. With today's product, you have half the crowd who doesn't want anyone to have a gimmick. They want every match to be a 45 minute classic. They want Meltzer to give it seven stars. Then the other half wants the glory days of 80's wrestling. They want everyone to have a side profession. Imagine Dean Ambrose as an angel sent to Earth to eradicate the evil forces of Samoa Joe's cannibal blood cult. It wouldn't work. WWE tries gimmicks. But like Brian said, everyone wants to be bad-ass versions of themselves. Well unfortunately, that's what most fans wanna see. Cartoony or unrealistic characters just don't work anymore. And today's fans crap all over them. Look at Adam Rose. Bayley. No Way Jose. The Ascension. The Vaudevillians. All have gimmicks that fell flat. That being said, I do feel WWE needs to flush out everyone's characters more. Why does Balor paint his face? Why are the Good Brothers in WWE? Why is Samoa Joe so damn angry? Why is Bobby Roode constantly saying Glorious? Explain who they are, explain their motives, and people will will become invested. Give fans more of a reason to care. I think you did a good job of better articulating what I was trying to say. When I think people should have characters/gimmicks that drive their performance. I feel like a lot of people are hearing words like “character” or “gimmick” and automatically think of guys like Mantaur. I don’t think that’s what anyone is looking for. I think the key is to do less. A lot of people try to be everything and do every move. If nothing makes you different then you’re just another guy. Look at Samoa Joe. When he first debuted on the main roster he had a character. He was basically the muscle for the Authority. Now, he’s just another guy in the mix. They call Ambrose the lunatic fringe and always talk about how crazy he is, but when he’s on TV he usually seems pretty normal. He would be a great guy to not really have matches every week. Instead he can have multiple segments where he’s just raising hell. One of my biggest criticisms on the UK tournament was the interview packages. It was like: - What does this mean to you? “It means everything to me.” - Why? “This is my moment.” - Moment to do what? “Make an impact.” Basically everyone said the same thing. Most guys on the roster today, I don’t know what they’re goals are other than to collect a paycheck or to “Entertain the fans! Yippie!” And if creative isn’t cutting it for the wrestlers then it’s up to the wrestler to pitch ideas. If the ideas get rejected or don’t work, at least you tried. If you don’t try, you have no right to whine in a shoot interview that you were ignored or held back.
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Post by tylerbreezee on Dec 19, 2017 19:55:11 GMT -5
Kayfabe being dead is what happened
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Post by Thought Collector on Dec 19, 2017 19:57:30 GMT -5
I almost agreed with everything until he lumped Doink The Clown in with the bad gimmicks. lol....
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Dec 19, 2017 20:19:02 GMT -5
People need to realise that gimmicks and characters are different. No one wants the roster full of pirates, boogeymen and magicians. We want strong stand alone characters that us the fans can invest in. Look at Austin and Rock. Their characters were so strong it made them instant legends and huge draws for the company. They were two normal guys that couldn't have been more different and that was because of character development.
The current roster is the greatest in years but they still need the part timers to sell the big PPV's, now ask yourselves why is that? We have a roster full of talented guys but the booking and scripts don't do them any favours and as a result no one cares.
Another issue with todays wrestlers is their names. Everyone has a first and second name that your best friend or neighbour could be called. Whatever happened to wrestlers using their nicknames as ring names?
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Post by The Brain on Dec 19, 2017 20:25:07 GMT -5
People need to realise that gimmicks and characters are different. No one wants the roster full of pirates, boogeymen and magicians. We want strong stand alone characters that us the fans can invest in. Look at Austin and Rock. Their characters were so strong it made them instant legends and huge draws for the company. They were two normal guys that couldn't have been more different and that was because of character development. The current roster is the greatest in years but they still need the part timers to sell the big PPV's, now ask yourselves why is that? We have a roster full of talented guys but the booking and scripts don't do them any favours and as a result no one cares. Another issue with todays wrestlers is their names. Everyone has a first and second name that your best friend or neighbour could be called. Whatever happened to wrestlers using their nicknames as ring names? Bingo!! My thoughts exactly.
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