raz2005uk
Main Eventer
Over 15 UK refs & 14 INT. refs now too! 1st WFUK member to get Rock Family 3 Pack :)
Joined on: Nov 20, 2005 7:57:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,500
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Post by raz2005uk on Feb 19, 2018 21:46:38 GMT -5
Hi Guys, So I've always debated this in my mind hundreds of times. HHH's monopoly on creative has led to some pretty awful moments of total domination, almost self indulgence to an extreme level. Some examples which spring to mind in the 2012-13 period when he was literally winning every title match and burying guys left, right and centre: - His awful storyline with Scott Steiner - completely buried him
- Burying Goldberg in his first WWE run
- Rob Van Dam - buried!
- Booker T - buried at Wrestlemania!
- CM Punk - ended his career
- Daniel Bryan - attempted to bury career and then ended his career via WWE Doctors
- Sting - the way HHH inserted himself into this feud still makes me mad. It should have been Sting vs. Taker at 'Mania dammit!
Is it just me or does HHH's ego not allow him to enjoy somebody having a good run in WWE? Oh and don't get me started on the finish to Royal Rumble '16 - how pathetic to come and put the belt on himself again!! Thoughts?
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Post by ¡Twist Of Cinnamon! on Feb 19, 2018 22:56:20 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan - attempted to bury career and then ended his career via WWE Doctors
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Post by k5 on Feb 19, 2018 23:28:31 GMT -5
there were definetly issues with triple h, but any time a guy gets power he abuses it in wrestling. Austin has refused to put triple h over at one time, Bret Hart refused to put triple h over, it’s just part of the game. pun intended I guess.
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Post by hbkjason on Feb 20, 2018 6:03:23 GMT -5
I love Triple H, he would make my top ten of all time easily, but I freaking hated his 2003 run with the belt. I think they were going for a "it will mean more when someone takes it off him" thing, but for me as much as I loved Triple H it was the opposite and kind of turned me off a bit. I still think that Kevin Nash should have taken the title off him, even if it was only for a month.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Feb 20, 2018 13:21:39 GMT -5
Was Triple H selfish during his career at times?? Of course!
Was Austin selfish?? Of course! He didn't want to work a program with Jeff Jarrett thus why Jeff left to go to WCW in 1999.
Was Bret Hart selfish?? Of course!
HBK?? Yup!
Hulk Hogan?? You betcha!
The list goes on and on. Once you get that top spot, it's your say in what happens until the next top guy comes along then you have to work within the means.
Triple H didn't bury Scott Steiner, Booker T or RVD. To bury someone you destroy their career and they never win again or get pushed. Steiner was injured at the time, so he couldn't perform great. Booker and RVD had Tag Title reigns, IC Title reigns and even World Title reigns. So they weren't buried.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 20, 2018 17:47:25 GMT -5
Rather than blame Triple H for the feud with Steiner, blame Steiner's foot. It caused him to have a severally lacking move set. He was a shelf of his former self and had no business even being in the main event. And it's not like Steiner had great WWE matches with anyone afterwards. He continued to suck till they released him.
Bruce Prichard recently said in his podcast that the plan was always for Goldberg to win the Elimination Chamber. And the reason it was booked in the Chamber match was because Triple H was injured and needed time off. BUT Goldberg refused to go overseas on the upcoming tour. And WWE wanted their champion to be on the show. Since Goldberg refused, Triple H (who was injured mind you) volunteered to go in his place. Thus why the title change was delayed a month.
I liked RVD. And would have been okay with him being champion. But a former WWE writer had said that the entire plan of the "reign of terror" was to get the newly introduced World championship over for the newer fans that had not watched wCw. So they booked his entire run much like Flair's classic NWA title reigns. Thus Evolution being born. They even mirrored Triple H being striped down to his underwear with Steiner. You were supposed to be pissed off. That way when he did finally lose it, it would mean more. And IMO it worked. Cause Benoit winning it was magical.
The entire Booker T feud was almost an exact reboot of the JYD/Flair & Luger/Ron Simmons feuds. Poor taste because times had changed. They should have known better IMO. There was also rumors out there that Triple H was supposed to lose to Booker, but plans changed once they signed Goldberg. As Vince saw that as a bigger money making match. And as I've said before on here, Booker lost to Edge the year before over a shampoo commercial. So IMO a World title match was a hell of an upgrade. Win, lose, or draw.
Triple H was not solely responsible for Punk leaving. Punk had many gripes. Orton has even said Punk was one of those guys that is only happy when he has something to be pissed about. I didn't like how the whole Summer of Punk storyline went down either. I thought the Triple H/Punk feud had potential to be amazing. But once Nash wasn't cleared to compete, they rushed it onto PPV within a weeks notice.
At no time did Triple H try to end Bryan's career. Please don't be one of those idiots who believes WWE is faking medical reports to keep Bryan out of the ring. Anyone who thinks that instantly loses all credibility IMO.
Sting himself said during the one 2K panel that his first choice for a WM opponent was Taker. But his second was Triple H. Sting has also said that Taker wasn't interest in facing him. So Triple H didn't insert himself into anything. Sting has also said that he thought WM was a one and done, and that he always believed you "go out on your back". So unless Sing is a liar I don't think he ever had any intentions of winning regardless of who he faced.
And finally, the 2016 Royal Rumble. It was rather obvious that the plan was to put the title on Triple H for the sole purpose of getting Roman cheered. They figured that Triple H was over enough as a heel to get the crowd to finally rally behind Roman. It didn't work, but you could see their intentions from a mile away. And let's not forget that was also the year WWE had several big names injured at WM season.
Now before anyone quotes me complaining, I'm not saying Triple H hasn't played a power game from time to time. But the thing is, every top star has. From Dusty booking himself to be champion, from Hogan's creative control, to Taker's refusal to let DDP look strong. It happens. Far more than any of us will ever know.
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Post by TheLastDude on Feb 20, 2018 17:58:22 GMT -5
Has he been selfish? Sure. Does he care about wrestling and the WWE? Yes, above all else.
Look at your examples:
Steiner and Goldberg are both terrible wrestlers RVD was more interested in being blazed than being a main eventer Booker was past his prime Punk took his ball and went home Bryan got hurt and by all accounts it was due to his own balls-to-the-wall-give-it-all style and Sting was absolutely in the loop during all discussions about his WWE run
I don't care how many people wanted Sting to face Taker, that match would have been the epitome of terrible and would have tarnished both of their careers. Taker needs someone to carry him, and has for the last several years. Why do you think his match with Shane was his worst of the last five or six years? Because Shane isn't a wrestler.
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jeffro2000
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 16, 2011 14:23:29 GMT -5
Posts: 1,858
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Post by jeffro2000 on Feb 20, 2018 18:12:49 GMT -5
Now before anyone quotes me complaining, I'm not saying Triple H hasn't played a power game from time to time. But the thing is, every top star has. From Dusty booking himself to be champion, from Hogan's creative control, to Taker's refusal to let DDP look strong. It happens. Far more than any of us will ever know. Seriously, this happens more than we know about but wrestlers also get unfairly blamed for it often times just as you have laid out above. A lot of those shots are called from above, and it isn't the wrestlers choice. We as fans know very little of what goes on backstage and half of we we think we do know are half-truths or fallacies. Similar with Hogan, from 83 to 92 Vince didn't want Hogan to lose no more than Hogan did. B. Pritchard even disputes the Hogan/Bret SS93 story. WCW didn't need Hogan losing left and right either. He certainly did use his influence at times, just like others, and maybe a little more.
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Papi Joker
Main Eventer
INTERNATIONAL COLLECTORS LIVES MATTER
Joined on: Feb 23, 2016 23:56:30 GMT -5
Posts: 1,499
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Post by Papi Joker on Feb 20, 2018 20:45:10 GMT -5
Triple H... if the saying Survival of the Fittest is true, than he is THE ULTIMATE SURVIVOR
As much as hate hsi gifted title belt runs...
He is by far.... the single greatest HEEL ever in the history of villains everrrr...
Even better than Flair, because he feuded with Flair as the heel, in fact he feuded with EVERYONE all the top faces ever!
SCSA The Rock Mankind Y2J HBK Undertaker Kane Ric Flair Hulk Hogan Booker T Goldberg Cena Punk etc etc etc etc
All of them lining up to work with him...
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 21, 2018 10:12:33 GMT -5
Was Triple H selfish during his career at times?? Of course! Was Austin selfish?? Of course! He didn't want to work a program with Jeff Jarrett thus why Jeff left to go to WCW in 1999. Was Bret Hart selfish?? Of course! HBK?? Yup! Hulk Hogan?? You betcha! The list goes on and on. Once you get that top spot, it's your say in what happens until the next top guy comes along then you have to work within the means. Triple H didn't bury Scott Steiner, Booker T or RVD. To bury someone you destroy their career and they never win again or get pushed. Steiner was injured at the time, so he couldn't perform great. Booker and RVD had Tag Title reigns, IC Title reigns and even World Title reigns. So they weren't buried. I have to disagree with RVD and Booker. The champ can retain his title by the end of a program, but the idea is to elevate, or at the very least keep the opponent on the level they were perceived at going into the program. With Booker and RVD, both guys came out of their feuds with HHH looking much worse than before they ran into him. Both floundered in the midcard for years and only won world titles when they either weren’t on the same show as him (Booker) or when they were reviving ECW (RVD). Both guys I’d say were buried due to their floundering for years.
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Post by PJ on Feb 21, 2018 11:44:26 GMT -5
Nothing made Booker T look any worse than the grocery store segment with Austin.
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Post by Brad on Feb 21, 2018 14:21:20 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan - attempted to bury career and then ended his career via WWE Doctors My thoughts exactly.
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Post by HHH316 on Feb 21, 2018 14:30:20 GMT -5
Did someone dig up this thread from 2002-2006?
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Post by PJ on Feb 21, 2018 15:03:10 GMT -5
Did someone dig up this thread from 2002-2006? No but it is remade every 6 months or so.
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nibs92
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 29, 2008 5:47:21 GMT -5
Posts: 2,237
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Post by nibs92 on Feb 21, 2018 16:14:28 GMT -5
Is the Daniel Bryan thing really a theory?
Surely as head of talent he could just get rid of him if he really wanted to. Faking doctors opinions or whatever is it sounds more like a storyline than a real life situation.
A bit far fetched.......
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Post by PJ on Feb 21, 2018 17:22:32 GMT -5
Pretty sure someone on a dirt sheet said it once and it was posted on the WWE board back when he was first injured. So it must be true.
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nibs92
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Joined on: May 29, 2008 5:47:21 GMT -5
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Post by nibs92 on Feb 21, 2018 17:29:14 GMT -5
Pretty sure someone on a dirt sheet said it once and it was posted on the WWE board back when he was first injured. So it must be true. Ha ha I do love a reliable source.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Feb 22, 2018 18:09:26 GMT -5
Is this serious?
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Deleted
Joined on: Mar 29, 2024 7:56:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 18:28:08 GMT -5
Was Triple H selfish during his career at times?? Of course! Was Austin selfish?? Of course! He didn't want to work a program with Jeff Jarrett thus why Jeff left to go to WCW in 1999. Was Bret Hart selfish?? Of course! HBK?? Yup! Hulk Hogan?? You betcha! The list goes on and on. Once you get that top spot, it's your say in what happens until the next top guy comes along then you have to work within the means. Triple H didn't bury Scott Steiner, Booker T or RVD. To bury someone you destroy their career and they never win again or get pushed. Steiner was injured at the time, so he couldn't perform great. Booker and RVD had Tag Title reigns, IC Title reigns and even World Title reigns. So they weren't buried. There's no such thing as a selfless champion. BUT, I don't think it's fair to necessarily call Austin or especially Bret selfish. Think of how many guys did Bret elevated as champion, or just in general. Hakushi? Jean Pierre? 1-2-3 Kid? Owen? Dozens more, I'm sure. Bret legitimised Austin himself. He never had to do that -- Hogan for example is a guy who could put someone else over, but not really put them over. Even Flair did a lot to build up other guys. Hardly selfless, but the guy went out of his way for Sting, Kerry and tons of other guys throughout his career. You can be a main event player, and look out for yourself without constantly holding other guys back.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Feb 22, 2018 18:36:41 GMT -5
Was Triple H selfish during his career at times?? Of course! Was Austin selfish?? Of course! He didn't want to work a program with Jeff Jarrett thus why Jeff left to go to WCW in 1999. Was Bret Hart selfish?? Of course! HBK?? Yup! Hulk Hogan?? You betcha! The list goes on and on. Once you get that top spot, it's your say in what happens until the next top guy comes along then you have to work within the means. Triple H didn't bury Scott Steiner, Booker T or RVD. To bury someone you destroy their career and they never win again or get pushed. Steiner was injured at the time, so he couldn't perform great. Booker and RVD had Tag Title reigns, IC Title reigns and even World Title reigns. So they weren't buried. There's no such thing as a selfless champion. BUT, I don't think it's fair to necessarily call Austin or especially Bret selfish. Think of how many guys did Bret elevated as champion, or just in general. Hakushi? Jean Pierre? 1-2-3 Kid? Owen? Dozens more, I'm sure. Bret legitimised Austin himself. He never had to do that -- Hogan for example is a guy who could put someone else over, but not really put them over. Even Flair did a lot to build up other guys. Hardly selfless, but the guy went out of his way for Sting, Kerry and tons of other guys throughout his career. You can be a main event player, and look out for yourself without constantly holding other guys back. Bret didn't elevate Hakushi or Jean Pierre. Hakushi put Bret over and then ended up becoming a face and tagging with Barry Horowitz in feuds with Skip and Rad Radford. Jean Pierre stole Bret's jacket and then put Bret over on a PPV. As for Austin, I remember hearing stories of him not wanting to put Triple H over, definitely the Jeff Jarrett one is true, Austin didn't even want to work a program with him.
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