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Post by BØRNS on Jun 23, 2018 15:22:01 GMT -5
It doesn’t matter if they still do shows there or not. It’s the house that Bruno built and I am pretty sure Vince Sr used to have his office there. So yeah I can totally see why the WWE wouldn’t want another company performing at what the WWE referred to for years as the “Mecca of Sports Entertainment”. And I am maybe 45 minutes away in Rockland County and wouldn’t care if there was wrestling in both venues. Because if I was going to go to a live event that night it would only be one show. And that would be the WWE. It does matter though. WWE and Vince most likely don't give a sh*t about the "legacy" and how "sacred" MSG is. It is simply a business decision. I am not too engaged with the current product, but the WWE/WWF will always be #1 in my eyes and I've been to a number of amazing events at The Garden over the last 20 years. Those are some of my fondest memories. So this isn't sour grapes from an anti-WWE guy. If they really feel so damn warm and fuzzy about their history at MSG how about they start running more events there? The last PPV they hosted was Survivor Series 2011 I'm pretty sure. When was the last Raw? Or Smackdown? Spare me the argument that they run a few throwaway house shows from time to time because everybody gets those. It reminds me of a little kid who has a toy he doesn't play with, but as soon as someone else picks it up he kicks and screams it's his favorite and nobody else can touch it. I get why they don't do Wrestlemania anymore there. The event has outgrown MSG in terms of capacity. However, you're telling me they can't do NXT there or the HOF or maybe the Raw/Smackdown afterwards? They have been neglecting that place for years now. I understand it costs more to run TV tapings and PPVs, but again if WWE feels as sincerely about MSG as they're making it out to be, you'd think they'd bite the financial bullet once in a while and put on a big show in the place that put them on the map. I'm on the west coast, so I don't take ownership of MSG or anything, but why not just charge more for the tickets so the extra overhead cost is taken care of? The New York market is saturated with fans, and I'm sure people would gladly pay a little more to attend a televised show at MSG, especially a WM weekend NXT Takeover or Raw after WM.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jun 23, 2018 15:56:56 GMT -5
I Mean if you were running a show, who would you rather have? Punishment Martinez or The Undertaker? Punishment Martinez. I'm too cool to like mainstream wrestlers like The Undertaker!
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walkingturtles
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Post by walkingturtles on Jun 23, 2018 16:03:26 GMT -5
Vince is absolutely aware of how poor his product is from a creative standpoint. I would definitely not want to give any other company momentum. However RoH ran Supercard of Honor in New Orleans this year. I’m sure RoH could run somewhere else, maybe Barclays?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 20:58:15 GMT -5
Vince is absolutely aware of how poor his product is from a creative standpoint. I would definitely not want to give any other company momentum. However RoH ran Supercard of Honor in New Orleans this year. I’m sure RoH could run somewhere else, maybe Barclays? NXT will be at Barclays the night before wrestlemania. ROH was hoping to run opposite that at MSG. ROH shouldn't just do Hammerstein Ballroom. They are too big for that now. They drew 6,000 last year in NOLA. HB has a capacity of only 2500. If ROH doesnt sue and win that date back maybe they can run the arena in Brooklyn that NXT was going to put Takeover in back in 2015 before they decided on Barclays. Maybe Nassau Coliseum? WCW did shows there.
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@AnHonorablePod
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jun 24, 2018 17:41:37 GMT -5
I Mean if you were running a show, who would you rather have? Punishment Martinez or The Undertaker? I know right, who in the hell is that undertaker guy anyways? A complete shell of his former self, and a prime example of WWE being unable to create new stars.
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@AnHonorablePod
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jun 24, 2018 17:44:58 GMT -5
Punishment Martinez. I go to wrestling shows for matches not entrances and dudes 10 years past their primes. Well then spend 14 dollars for tickets to a ROH show. Most fans would want to see Undertaker one last time. Especially in MSG. If ROH had $14 dollar tickets, they wouldn't be able to afford to run MSG, come on now. Let's not pretend ROH is a rinky dink indy where ten dollar tickets are for all seats. Most fans would want to see Undertaker one last time. Until, it's the next last time, and the time after that and the time after that. The law of diminishing returns. The Undertaker hasn't had a good match since the HIAC with Brock and let's face it, he's embarrassing himself.
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@AnHonorablePod
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jun 24, 2018 17:46:24 GMT -5
I Mean if you were running a show, who would you rather have? Punishment Martinez or The Undertaker? Punishment Martinez. I'm too cool to like mainstream wrestlers like The Undertaker! Never liked Undertaker as a kid, certainly don't like seeing a 50 year old cartoon stumbling around now either.
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Post by King Richius on Jun 24, 2018 17:56:40 GMT -5
Meh, I see the WWE blocking other promotions from holding a show at MSG as a bad sign. They need competition to drive the product. They should be putting on the best product they can inside the ring. if you want to claim to be the best, then show it. Instead, they resort to tactics like this to keep other companies down.
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Post by marino13 on Jun 24, 2018 17:59:06 GMT -5
Well then spend 14 dollars for tickets to a ROH show. Most fans would want to see Undertaker one last time. Especially in MSG. If ROH had $14 dollar tickets, they wouldn't be able to afford to run MSG, come on now. Let's not pretend ROH is a rinky dink indy where ten dollar tickets are for all seats. Most fans would want to see Undertaker one last time. Until, it's the next last time, and the time after that and the time after that. The law of diminishing returns. The Undertaker hasn't had a good match since the HIAC with Brock and let's face it, he's embarrassing himself. Whether you believe he's held on too long or not, Taker still draws in fans. Die hard and casual fans. And the original question was, if you were running a show, who would you rather book? Who's name would you rather have on the marquee? I'm sorry you disagree, but there's no comparison. 95% of people would say Undertaker.
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@AnHonorablePod
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jun 24, 2018 18:06:58 GMT -5
If ROH had $14 dollar tickets, they wouldn't be able to afford to run MSG, come on now. Let's not pretend ROH is a rinky dink indy where ten dollar tickets are for all seats. Most fans would want to see Undertaker one last time. Until, it's the next last time, and the time after that and the time after that. The law of diminishing returns. The Undertaker hasn't had a good match since the HIAC with Brock and let's face it, he's embarrassing himself. Whether you believe he's held on too long or not, Taker still draws in fans. Die hard and casual fans. And the original question was, if you were running a show, who would you rather book? Who's name would you rather have on the marquee? I'm sorry you disagree, but there's no comparison. 95% of people would say Undertaker. Look at it like this, your top draw should not be sequestered to being second fiddle to a guy who was never considered to be a draw at his peak(Shawn/Bret/Austin/Rock etc.). He's the last connection to a bygone era. He's a nostalja act. He's not drawing in fans, nobody is except for the 3 letters WWE.
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Post by King Richius on Jun 24, 2018 18:08:17 GMT -5
If ROH had $14 dollar tickets, they wouldn't be able to afford to run MSG, come on now. Let's not pretend ROH is a rinky dink indy where ten dollar tickets are for all seats. Most fans would want to see Undertaker one last time. Until, it's the next last time, and the time after that and the time after that. The law of diminishing returns. The Undertaker hasn't had a good match since the HIAC with Brock and let's face it, he's embarrassing himself. Whether you believe he's held on too long or not, Taker still draws in fans. Die hard and casual fans. And the original question was, if you were running a show, who would you rather book? Who's name would you rather have on the marquee? I'm sorry you disagree, but there's no comparison. 95% of people would say Undertaker. I agree with you 110% for the comparison of Undertaker vs Punishment Martinez. BUT... What if the same question is asked slightly differently: would you rather see Kenny Omega or Undertaker?
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@AnHonorablePod
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jun 24, 2018 18:10:11 GMT -5
Meh, I see the WWE blocking other promotions from holding a show at MSG as a bad sign. They need competition to drive the product. They should be putting on the best product they can inside the ring. if you want to claim to be the best, then show it. Instead, they resort to tactics like this to keep other companies down. Ironically enough, this is what promoters in the 70's & early 80's tried to do to Vince McMahon Jr. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
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@AnHonorablePod
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jun 24, 2018 18:11:34 GMT -5
Whether you believe he's held on too long or not, Taker still draws in fans. Die hard and casual fans. And the original question was, if you were running a show, who would you rather book? Who's name would you rather have on the marquee? I'm sorry you disagree, but there's no comparison. 95% of people would say Undertaker. I agree with you 110% for the comparison of Undertaker vs Punishment Martinez. BUT... What if the same question is asked slightly differently: would you rather see Kenny Omega or Undertaker? Brand loyalty, you know what his answer will be.
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Post by marino13 on Jun 24, 2018 18:18:29 GMT -5
Whether you believe he's held on too long or not, Taker still draws in fans. Die hard and casual fans. And the original question was, if you were running a show, who would you rather book? Who's name would you rather have on the marquee? I'm sorry you disagree, but there's no comparison. 95% of people would say Undertaker. I agree with you 110% for the comparison of Undertaker vs Punishment Martinez. BUT... What if the same question is asked slightly differently: would you rather see Kenny Omega or Undertaker? That may be a different story for some fans. But there's a lot of casual fans out there who have no idea who Kenny Omega is. They have no idea who ROH has or doesn't have. To many, WWE is all that is out there. Whether you believe he's held on too long or not, Taker still draws in fans. Die hard and casual fans. And the original question was, if you were running a show, who would you rather book? Who's name would you rather have on the marquee? I'm sorry you disagree, but there's no comparison. 95% of people would say Undertaker. Look at it like this, your top draw should not be sequestered to being second fiddle to a guy who was never considered to be a draw at his peak(Shawn/Bret/Austin/Rock etc.). He's the last connection to a bygone era. He's a nostalja act. He's not drawing in fans, nobody is except for the 3 letters WWE. So what if he's a nostalgia act? He's on his farewell tour, and this is probably his last event for MSG. That means something to MANY fans. MSG knows that, thus why his face is on the marquee.
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@AnHonorablePod
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jun 24, 2018 18:22:57 GMT -5
I agree with you 110% for the comparison of Undertaker vs Punishment Martinez. BUT... What if the same question is asked slightly differently: would you rather see Kenny Omega or Undertaker? That may be a different story for some fans. But there's a lot of casual fans out there who have no idea who Kenny Omega is. They have no idea who ROH has or doesn't have. To many, WWE is all that is out there. So fans ignorance to other companies is the draw, and not the specific performer? Even casual fans know other wrestling exists.Look at it like this, your top draw should not be sequestered to being second fiddle to a guy who was never considered to be a draw at his peak(Shawn/Bret/Austin/Rock etc.). He's the last connection to a bygone era. He's a nostalja act. He's not drawing in fans, nobody is except for the 3 letters WWE. So what if he's a nostalgia act? He's on his farewell tour, and this is probably his last event for MSG. That means something to MANY fans. MSG knows that, thus why his face is on the marquee. He's been on his farewell tour for 6 or 7 years. It's long past the point of meaning anything toward the bottom line or how many butts in seats there will be.
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Post by marino13 on Jun 24, 2018 18:23:04 GMT -5
I agree with you 110% for the comparison of Undertaker vs Punishment Martinez. BUT... What if the same question is asked slightly differently: would you rather see Kenny Omega or Undertaker? Brand loyalty, you know what his answer will be. Has nothing to do with brand loyalty. I'm looking at it from a casual fan's POV. There are many older wrestling fans that have never heard the name Punishment Martinez or Kenny Omega. But you can bet they know who Undertaker is.
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Post by marino13 on Jun 24, 2018 18:24:46 GMT -5
That may be a different story for some fans. But there's a lot of casual fans out there who have no idea who Kenny Omega is. They have no idea who ROH has or doesn't have. To many, WWE is all that is out there. So fans ignorance to other companies is the draw, and not the specific performer? Even casual fans know other wrestling exists. So what if he's a nostalgia act? He's on his farewell tour, and this is probably his last event for MSG. That means something to MANY fans. MSG knows that, thus why his face is on the marquee. He's been on his farewell tour for 6 or 7 years. It's long past the point of meaning anything toward the bottom line or how many butts in seats there will be. Is that why MSG put him on the marquee? They don't know how to run their own business?
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@AnHonorablePod
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jun 24, 2018 18:25:44 GMT -5
Brand loyalty, you know what his answer will be. Has nothing to do with brand loyalty. I'm looking at it from a casual fan's POV. There are many older wrestling fans that have never heard the name Punishment Martinez or Kenny Omega. But you can bet they know who Undertaker is. Has everything to do with brand loyalty. Undertaker works for Vince McMahon not for Sinclair Broadcasting/ROH. Which gets back to the point of the thread, WWE is jealous other companies are gaining traction and they pull the same stuff low level indy promoters do. It's embarrassing.
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@AnHonorablePod
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Post by @AnHonorablePod on Jun 24, 2018 18:26:55 GMT -5
He's been on his farewell tour for 6 or 7 years. It's long past the point of meaning anything toward the bottom line or how many butts in seats there will be. Is that why MSG put him on the marquee? They don't know how to run their own business? They'd still draw the same amount no matter who was on the marquee. As long as the WWE is in that building, they'll sell the same amount of tickets.
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Post by marino13 on Jun 24, 2018 18:30:29 GMT -5
Is that why MSG put him on the marquee? They don't know how to run their own business? They'd still draw the same amount no matter who was on the marquee. As long as the WWE is in that building, they'll sell the same amount of tickets. Yes and that WWE show will draw in many more fans than a ROH show would. Especially if you advertise Taker's first appearance in 6-7 years and most likely his last. I doubt MSG needed much convincing.
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