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Post by kingnothing ~ Hardwired... on Aug 7, 2018 6:46:47 GMT -5
9 pages for a raw thread. The product really is at an all time low The activity of a dead forum has no reflection on the product's quality. Have to agree. There were nights recently where Smackdown put on an amazing show and was universally loved by all, and it’s thread here didn’t get close to 10 pages. Who cares what Meltzer says? I'll never understand it. While I’ll occasionally listen to a “professional’s” opinion, I was taught early in my life that they don’t build statues or monuments for critics.
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marklud
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 5, 2009 21:10:30 GMT -5
Posts: 1,739
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Post by marklud on Aug 7, 2018 7:47:49 GMT -5
Who cares what Meltzer says? I'll never understand it. Ever actually read his newsletter? It's really well done. People get mad about star ratings just because they like to get mad about stuff. His obits on deceased wrestlers are absolutely the best in the business and super tributes. And I happen to agree with his take on the current (lack of) quality on WWE TV. Just mentioning as a reference point. (And as a sidenote, look up Ishii/Ibushi from the other day on dailymotion. Only like 20 minutes long. Better than any Raw match from the last decade.)
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Post by "The Visionary" Eldniw on Aug 7, 2018 8:14:29 GMT -5
Did not care for the main event. Ronda does **** all in the ring. She acts like she's still in UFC. Don't care for the idea that she's gonna be Raw Women's Champion in her 4th match televised, because we know a real WRESTLER won't be booked over a special attraction. And that's what Rousey is. A special attraction. The female Brock Lesnar. Completely undeserving of even getting the match, let alone the title. Don't @ me.
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Post by marino13 on Aug 7, 2018 8:43:06 GMT -5
Who cares what Meltzer says? I'll never understand it. Ever actually read his newsletter? It's really well done. People get mad about star ratings just because they like to get mad about stuff. His obits on deceased wrestlers are absolutely the best in the business and super tributes. And I happen to agree with his take on the current (lack of) quality on WWE TV. Just mentioning as a reference point. (And as a sidenote, look up Ishii/Ibushi from the other day on dailymotion. Only like 20 minutes long. Better than any Raw match from the last decade.) Yes, when I was younger I did read Meltzer. But as I got older I grew to hate how he goes out of his way to ruin everything WWE plans to do and then complain how boring the product is. He's been doing it for a long time. I also grew to realize his opinion doesn't hold anymore merit than anyone else and that I don't need his approval or star rating to enjoy something. (As a respond to the side note, I've been watching the G1 and more NJPW lately. But that has NOTHING to do with WWE. They are two different companies making two different shows for two different types of fans. I can watch one without complaining about the other.)
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Post by punksnotdead on Aug 7, 2018 9:10:50 GMT -5
Who cares what Meltzer says? I'll never understand it. Who cares what Joe Rogan says? Who cares what Oprah has to say? How about Bill Maher or Rush Limbaugh? To that effect, who cares what anyone, anywhere, says? When someone has an audience, people obviously care, but if you're going to ask who cares, how does that not apply to literally every opinion that has ever been stated? Why should people care about your opinion, or my opinion, or why should this website even exist at all? Meltzer has done years of work building an audience for his voice. Wrestling is 100% subjective, at least the performance elements we watch on TV. So nobody is right or wrong, and people are allowed to agree, or disagree, with Dave the same way they can agree, or disagree, with anyone posting on this forum, on Facebook, or on reddit. If Meltzer is still able to monetize his fandom by using his opinion, then the answer to your question is plenty of people seemingly care what he says. If you're really trying to understand it, maybe you should make an effort to see what he's saying first hand and decide for yourself. You can't be for or against something you don't understand. We call that being ignorant. Otherwise, if you truly have a general don't care attitude towards his opinion altogether, then it shouldn't affect you in the slightest when someone agrees or disagrees with him. If that's the case, it begs the question why you felt it necessary to post that comment. (As a respond to the side note, I've been watching the G1 and more NJPW lately. But that has NOTHING to do with WWE. They are two different companies making two different shows for two different types of fans. I can watch one without complaining about the other.) I wholeheartedly agree, but by nature, and as a society, people naturally compare everything. WCW and WWF in the Attitude Era. Coke and Pepsi. The Dark Knight and Batman 89. People have an innate inability to just enjoy something without comparing it to other experiences throughout their life. "I thought Josh Wolf was an amazingly funny comic but he wasn't as funny as Carlin." It's a ridiculous thing we do as humans. Do you rank the Spider-man movies or comic book movies in general? It's the same logic.
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Post by punksnotdead on Aug 7, 2018 9:27:35 GMT -5
And sorry for the double, but all of that aside, I did want to post what I enjoyed about Raw: - The Paul Heyman interview. He's so good at what he does imo. He's doing everything he can to make you feel sympathy for him and convey real emotion. I was really impressed with him even though I have zero desire to see Brock vs Roman, again. - Rollins/Ziggler/McIntrye setting up more story. Feels impossible not to think this is leading to Ambrose. My hope is that they team for a little bit and then Ambrose turns on Rollins. If they can drag it out to Mania that would be cool but I genuinely think Rollins should win the Royal Rumble and be crowned top babyface. So I'd rather see the Ambrose story happen sooner, rather than later. So maybe have Drew and Ambrose in each guys corner and then have Ambrose cost Rollins the title and have Ziggler retain at SummerSlam. "Whose side is he on?!" - I thought Ronda was great. She looks like a killer in there and I think the story they've told with Bliss has been excellent. Yes, she's still very green and she's going to have to learn on the job, but you have to strike while she's hot. If you make her credible now with the audience you'll never have to do it again. If you wait for her to be super polished then you risk her losing some of her shine. She's a huge star right now. WWE needs her imo. The G1 has been amazing. Omega vs Ishii was incredible. I encourage all of you to take the time to go watch it!
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Post by Bandalero on Aug 7, 2018 9:44:45 GMT -5
This may come off as being petty or fickle but I do believe wrestling is about ability/psychology/brand - a complex cocktail. So I'm being constructive when I say that Rhonda needs to figure out better wrestling gear. Her tiny sports bra and biker tights are distracting for all the wrong reasons. She's constantly fixing herself after every move and I find it's like a drinking game when I watch her perform - I'm not looking at the moves, but guessing when she's going to pull down the inner thighs of her tights.
Image is a big thing; Steve Austin has talked about how he struggled to find the right gear/look, always experimenting with biker tights, trunks, and tights until settling for simple black trunks. We complain about Roman not moving beyond his Shield tactical gear while his other buddies did. All I'm saying is that wardrobe can invest a little more into Rhonda because she's obviously not comfortable in what she's wearing.
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Post by Rated [R] NinJa on Aug 7, 2018 11:12:24 GMT -5
Caught the highlights, seemed like a pretty meh show. Glad I didn’t stop up till 4am to watch.
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Post by King Richius on Aug 7, 2018 11:23:31 GMT -5
This may come off as being petty or fickle but I do believe wrestling is about ability/psychology/brand - a complex cocktail. So I'm being constructive when I say that Rhonda needs to figure out better wrestling gear. Her tiny sports bra and biker tights are distracting for all the wrong reasons. She's constantly fixing herself after every move and I find it's like a drinking game when I watch her perform - I'm not looking at the moves, but guessing when she's going to pull down the inner thighs of her tights. Image is a big thing; Steve Austin has talked about how he struggled to find the right gear/look, always experimenting with biker tights, trunks, and tights until settling for simple black trunks. We complain about Roman not moving beyond his Shield tactical gear while his other buddies did. All I'm saying is that wardrobe can invest a little more into Rhonda because she's obviously not comfortable in what she's wearing. You're not wrong. Ronda's attire looks more like a someone trying to cosplay a wrestler with off the rack clothes from K-Mart rather than someone who has a professional seamstress available to make something good.
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Post by marino13 on Aug 7, 2018 12:59:36 GMT -5
Who cares what Meltzer says? I'll never understand it. Who cares what Joe Rogan says? Who cares what Oprah has to say? How about Bill Maher or Rush Limbaugh? To that effect, who cares what anyone, anywhere, says? When someone has an audience, people obviously care, but if you're going to ask who cares, how does that not apply to literally every opinion that has ever been stated? Why should people care about your opinion, or my opinion, or why should this website even exist at all? Meltzer has done years of work building an audience for his voice. Wrestling is 100% subjective, at least the performance elements we watch on TV. So nobody is right or wrong, and people are allowed to agree, or disagree, with Dave the same way they can agree, or disagree, with anyone posting on this forum, on Facebook, or on reddit. If Meltzer is still able to monetize his fandom by using his opinion, then the answer to your question is plenty of people seemingly care what he says. If you're really trying to understand it, maybe you should make an effort to see what he's saying first hand and decide for yourself. You can't be for or against something you don't understand. We call that being ignorant. Otherwise, if you truly have a general don't care attitude towards his opinion altogether, then it shouldn't affect you in the slightest when someone agrees or disagrees with him. If that's the case, it begs the question why you felt it necessary to post that comment. (As a respond to the side note, I've been watching the G1 and more NJPW lately. But that has NOTHING to do with WWE. They are two different companies making two different shows for two different types of fans. I can watch one without complaining about the other.) I wholeheartedly agree, but by nature, and as a society, people naturally compare everything. WCW and WWF in the Attitude Era. Coke and Pepsi. The Dark Knight and Batman 89. People have an innate inability to just enjoy something without comparing it to other experiences throughout their life. "I thought Josh Wolf was an amazingly funny comic but he wasn't as funny as Carlin." It's a ridiculous thing we do as humans. Do you rank the Spider-man movies or comic book movies in general? It's the same logic.
Fair enough. But as I said, I have listened to him. I have read his stuff in the past. And occasionally, I agree with some of what he has to say. But overall he's too negative for my liking. Especially when 9 times out of 10, he's the one ruining the big plans ahead of time and then complaining that the show was too predictable.
For the record, I never said it's wrong for people to compare. But why come in here and use something another company is doing as a way to put down a show you haven't watched in over a year?
All I'm saying is, if you're going to compare, at least watch the movies, comedians, or wrestling and compare for yourself. If you're going to rank Spider Man movies, don't skip the ASM franchise, and then rank them at the bottom because Joe said they were awful. It wouldn't make sense. Neither does saying I haven't watched RAW in a year, but I agree with everything Dave has said about it.
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Post by punksnotdead on Aug 7, 2018 14:18:40 GMT -5
All I'm saying is, if you're going to compare, at least watch the movies, comedians, or wrestling and compare for yourself. If you're going to rank Spider Man movies, don't skip the ASM franchise, and then rank them at the bottom because Joe said they were awful. It wouldn't make sense. Neither does saying I haven't watched RAW in a year, but I agree with everything Dave has said about it. Absolutely, it goes both ways. In a perfect world, we would lift the things we love up without cutting down the things we don't enjoy. But no fanbase for anything wants to be considered second best. I don't read or listen to Dave, and I don't know what specifically he said, but WWE is in a creative slump imo, and New Japan is riding a wave of some of the greatest in-ring matches I've ever seen in all of wrestling. So if Dave is saying that WWE and New Japan couldn't be any more opposite in terms of having a quality product, I agree with him. By that I mean, New Japan is doing what they do better than ever. WWE is the entertainment based brand of pro wrestling and I think they're struggling to tell compelling stories on a consistent basis. So it's not even comparing the apples to the oranges. It's saying the oranges are amazing right now and the apples have been a lot better in pervious years. And I think most people want the apples to be amazing too, despite however jaded or miserable we have become as over analytical adult fans.
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Post by marino13 on Aug 7, 2018 14:28:54 GMT -5
All I'm saying is, if you're going to compare, at least watch the movies, comedians, or wrestling and compare for yourself. If you're going to rank Spider Man movies, don't skip the ASM franchise, and then rank them at the bottom because Joe said they were awful. It wouldn't make sense. Neither does saying I haven't watched RAW in a year, but I agree with everything Dave has said about it. Absolutely, it goes both ways. In a perfect world, we would lift the things we love up without cutting down the things we don't enjoy. But no fanbase for anything wants to be considered second best. I don't read or listen to Dave, and I don't know what specifically he said, but WWE is in a creative slump imo, and New Japan is riding a wave of some of the greatest in-ring matches I've ever seen in all of wrestling. So if Dave is saying that WWE and New Japan couldn't be any more opposite in terms of having a quality product, I agree with him. By that I mean, New Japan is doing what they do better than ever. WWE is the entertainment based brand of pro wrestling and I think they're struggling to tell compelling stories on a consistent basis. So it's not even comparing the apples to the oranges. It's saying the oranges are amazing right now and the apples have been a lot better in pervious years. And I think most people want the apples to be amazing too, despite however jaded or miserable we have become as over analytical adult fans. But my point is, you watch both WWE & NJPW and you made those opinions yourself. You aren't letting someone else make them for you. Which is great. The same can't be said about others who pop in, admit they didn't watch, but complain about the product anyway because they heard Meltzer's opinion.
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Post by punksnotdead on Aug 7, 2018 14:33:53 GMT -5
Absolutely, it goes both ways. In a perfect world, we would lift the things we love up without cutting down the things we don't enjoy. But no fanbase for anything wants to be considered second best. I don't read or listen to Dave, and I don't know what specifically he said, but WWE is in a creative slump imo, and New Japan is riding a wave of some of the greatest in-ring matches I've ever seen in all of wrestling. So if Dave is saying that WWE and New Japan couldn't be any more opposite in terms of having a quality product, I agree with him. By that I mean, New Japan is doing what they do better than ever. WWE is the entertainment based brand of pro wrestling and I think they're struggling to tell compelling stories on a consistent basis. So it's not even comparing the apples to the oranges. It's saying the oranges are amazing right now and the apples have been a lot better in pervious years. And I think most people want the apples to be amazing too, despite however jaded or miserable we have become as over analytical adult fans. But my point is, you watch both WWE & NJPW and you made those opinions yourself. You aren't letting someone else make them for you. Which is great. The same can't be said about others who pop in, admit they didn't watch, but complain about the product anyway because they heard Meltzer's opinion. I know. I agreed with you on that point.
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Post by "The Visionary" Eldniw on Aug 7, 2018 14:44:50 GMT -5
Ever actually read his newsletter? It's really well done. People get mad about star ratings just because they like to get mad about stuff. His obits on deceased wrestlers are absolutely the best in the business and super tributes. And I happen to agree with his take on the current (lack of) quality on WWE TV. Just mentioning as a reference point. (And as a sidenote, look up Ishii/Ibushi from the other day on dailymotion. Only like 20 minutes long. Better than any Raw match from the last decade.) Yes, when I was younger I did read Meltzer. But as I got older I grew to hate how he goes out of his way to ruin everything WWE plans to do and then complain how boring the product is. He's been doing it for a long time. I also grew to realize his opinion doesn't hold anymore merit than anyone else and that I don't need his approval or star rating to enjoy something. (As a respond to the side note, I've been watching the G1 and more NJPW lately. But that has NOTHING to do with WWE. They are two different companies making two different shows for two different types of fans. I can watch one without complaining about the other.) I wish more people had this attitude. Credit to you.
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Post by Tim of thee on Aug 7, 2018 18:03:18 GMT -5
I actually think you can complain about one product being worse than another because they are the same thing. I don’t think it’s apples v oranges.
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