Henchmen4Hire
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Post by Henchmen4Hire on Aug 15, 2018 18:42:26 GMT -5
Now that I have a bigger selection of Elite figs to dissect (R.I.P. Konnor fig lol), It's become clear that their articulation would benefit massively from cloth elbow and knee pads.
I'm thinking they could be simple bands of stretchy fabric, with the actual pad being a thin piece of rubber glued to it. This keeps it easy to put on at the factory, easy to remove by customers, plus it looks pretty good.
I think the most important factor Mattel would want to look at is if this would lower their production costs at all, or stay about the same and make customers happier.
Would you like to see cloth pads implemented into the lines?
Some notable points:
•The force it takes to fully bend an elbow/knee joint against the pressure of a stiff pad causes the joint to loosen. The same problem happens with other stiff rubbery things, like jackets.
•Long kneepads are a prime candidate for switching to cloth pads. Elbow pads can be slid up and down to let the arm bend more, but at that point they're arm bands, not elbow pads anymore. How this looks will bother people to varying degrees.
•It's possible that cloth pads can deteriorate over time, but that's true of anything. I'd prefer the trade off of maybe needing a new cloth pad after a few years than having floppy joints within minutes.
•Cloth pads reduce the amount of different molds needed for different limbs. Since the cloth is naturally stretchy, the same knee/elbow pad can accommodate figures with different girths.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 18:47:24 GMT -5
No.
Why would they make kneepads from cloth? What next cloth titles? Cloth boots? Cloth announce table maybe?
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Post by PJ on Aug 15, 2018 19:00:43 GMT -5
Nope. I did wish they were part of the sculpt. But now 8 years in just keep them as they are. The only pads I see hinder the range of motion are the leg sleeves. The rest are fine.
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Post by rkfastmo on Aug 15, 2018 19:00:53 GMT -5
Seems like if Mattel wanted to cut costs they would give us painted-on pads, not cloth ones. Paint would have the same effect of cloth, with ease of joint movement, without extra expense of fabric that would likely degrade or lose its elasticity over time.
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Post by BadGirlRyleigh on Aug 15, 2018 19:04:25 GMT -5
Nope. I did wish they were part of the sculpt. But now 8 years in just keep them as they are. The only pads I see hinder the range of motion are the leg sleeves. The rest are fine. You’d wish they were sculpted until you’d have to do a part swap |
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Post by Nivro™ on Aug 15, 2018 19:21:15 GMT -5
Nope
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Henchmen4Hire
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Post by Henchmen4Hire on Aug 15, 2018 19:27:33 GMT -5
Nope. I did wish they were part of the sculpt. But now 8 years in just keep them as they are. The only pads I see hinder the range of motion are the leg sleeves. The rest are fine. I think if there's a problem, like the long knee pads blocking articulation, it should be addressed, regardless of how long it's been.
I'm doing some tests right now and the elbow pads definitely block some range. You can slide it up the arm to fully bend the elbow, but at that point it's not an elbow pad anymore, it's an arm band.
Though I'm sure this will bug people to varying degrees.
Seems like if Mattel wanted to cut costs they would give us painted-on pads, not cloth ones. Paint would have the same effect of cloth, with ease of joint movement, without extra expense of fabric that would likely degrade or lose its elasticity over time. I assume if I'm Mattel that I have to take into account what the customers like (and how to make them like it haha), so maybe they did the research and found that the majority of customers preferred a separate piece to a painted pad.
Speaking of degradation, the force it takes to fully bend an elbow against the pressure of the stiff elbow pad causes the joint and playability/poseability to degrade, by making it looser. Similar things happen with other stiff rubbery things, like jackets. It's happening right now to my RVD figure with long knee pads.
I'd prefer the trade off of maybe needing a new cloth pad after a few years than having floppy joints within minutes.
Nope. I did wish they were part of the sculpt. But now 8 years in just keep them as they are. The only pads I see hinder the range of motion are the leg sleeves. The rest are fine. You’d wish they were sculpted until you’d have to do a part swap As a customizer, I have to agree. Cloth pads would mean if we ever had to paint them then it would require a different approach, but we can easily adapt to new techniques. |
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Henchmen4Hire
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Joined on: Jan 12, 2016 23:48:35 GMT -5
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Post by Henchmen4Hire on Aug 15, 2018 19:43:25 GMT -5
Just realized, switching to cloth also means Mattel won't need many different molds for different limbs. They would only need maybe 2 or 3 molds of the rubbery pads (elbow, knee, and long knee). The cloth lets a single elbow/knee pad accommodate figures with different girths.
(Also, I'm adding these points to the first post as they pop up.)
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Post by Purple Reigns on Aug 15, 2018 19:47:39 GMT -5
No. Cloth announce table maybe? Don't get me excited. |
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Post by PJ on Aug 15, 2018 20:04:10 GMT -5
Nope. I did wish they were part of the sculpt. But now 8 years in just keep them as they are. The only pads I see hinder the range of motion are the leg sleeves. The rest are fine. You’d wish they were sculpted until you’d have to do a part swap No the parts would still be designed the same way...so in theory it would be the same as it is now switching knees and elbows. Only they would have a part of a pad as part of the sculpt. The only time it would be a problem would be if you didn’t want a padded knee or elbow pad on the part you were “fixing” . But that shouldn’t be a problem as they would have still had to have sculpted unpadded arms and legs for guys that didn’t wear them. |
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Post by Crossfit Jesus on Aug 15, 2018 20:21:36 GMT -5
They’re good how they are minus the leg sleeve knee pads
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Henchmen4Hire
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Post by Henchmen4Hire on Aug 15, 2018 20:25:49 GMT -5
You’d wish they were sculpted until you’d have to do a part swap No the parts would still be designed the same way...so in theory it would be the same as it is now switching knees and elbows. Only they would have a part of a pad as part of the sculpt. The only time it would be a problem would be if you didn’t want a padded knee or elbow pad on the part you were “fixing” . But that shouldn’t be a problem as they would have still had to have sculpted unpadded arms and legs for guys that didn’t wear them. That seems like the more expensive route to go. Assuming the pad would be sculpted across the two arm pieces and the 3 leg pieces, Mattel would have to create 3 new molds for each leg and 2 for each arm (10 new parts total) to have unpadded and padded versions. Maybe only 1 new knee mold if all figs use the same knees.
EDIT: Actually, it's even more mold pieces, because there are varying lengths of thighs and shins to adjust heights. Possibly different knee pieces.
Where as with the cloth pieces, the cloth length can be adjustable on the fly (depending on material) and there would only need to be 3 molds for the little rubber pad pieces (as theorized before).
Would be interesting to know if they had considered any of this stuff though, and the reasons.
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Post by Sound888 on Aug 15, 2018 20:31:09 GMT -5
Maybe use the fake leather and some type of thick stretch fabric?
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Post by marino13 on Aug 15, 2018 20:32:57 GMT -5
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Post by PJ on Aug 15, 2018 20:37:03 GMT -5
No the parts would still be designed the same way...so in theory it would be the same as it is now switching knees and elbows. Only they would have a part of a pad as part of the sculpt. The only time it would be a problem would be if you didn’t want a padded knee or elbow pad on the part you were “fixing” . But that shouldn’t be a problem as they would have still had to have sculpted unpadded arms and legs for guys that didn’t wear them. That seems like the more expensive route to go. Assuming the pad would be sculpted across the two arm pieces and the 3 leg pieces, Mattel would have to create 3 new molds for each leg and 2 for each arm (10 new parts total) to have unpadded and padded versions. Maybe only 1 new knee mold if all figs use the same knees.
EDIT: Actually, it's even more mold pieces, because there are varying lengths of thighs and shins to adjust heights. Possibly different knee pieces.
Where as with the cloth pieces, the cloth length can be adjustable on the fly (depending on material) and there would only need to be 3 molds for the little rubber pad pieces (as theorized before). Would be interesting to know if they had considered any of this stuff though, and the reasons.
That’s why I said I wished it was from day one when they were creating most of their parts library. But now 8 years in I just want to keep it as is and just do away with the leg sleeves. But I have no trouble getting the fullest range of motion out of any other elbow or knee pad. The only elbow pad I could see being an issue is the Taker/Kane pad. |
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Henchmen4Hire
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Post by Henchmen4Hire on Aug 15, 2018 20:46:51 GMT -5
Maybe use the fake leather and some type of thick stretch fabric? The stretch fabric is a must, the pad could be some fake leather I guess. It would eliminate the need for molds for the rubber pads, but require some die cutters to stamp out the shapes.
I can overlook the current elbow pads, and some of the knee pads (the purple Neville bends really well), but for sure those long knee pads need improving.
I'll probs end up making some prototypes of this stuff with old underwear and liquid latex lol
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Post by Triple S: POOR on Aug 15, 2018 20:52:27 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 21:47:02 GMT -5
I feel like cloth could be an interesting idea however with the paint on figures and the way material sometimes stains a figure it could be a bad idea. I would personally like to see more knee pads and elbow pads made in the same way as the Kevin Owens and John Cena ones. I feel like that coupled with more personalised boots and kick pads would be great.
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Henchmen4Hire
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Joined on: Jan 12, 2016 23:48:35 GMT -5
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Post by Henchmen4Hire on Aug 15, 2018 22:15:09 GMT -5
I feel like cloth could be an interesting idea however with the paint on figures and the way material sometimes stains a figure it could be a bad idea. I'll second the concern about staining the figure because I've had two Nikolai Volkoffs who both had big red stains from the jacket the figure has. That said, I've also seen marks left by things like kneepads, and haven't had problems when I've used fabric on figures. I think a little research is all it would take to find the best fabric, which dyes to avoid, etc.
I did some quick dirty crafting, used some thin material and wrapped it twice around RVD's knee. Pushing it down a little, it has a nice "scrunch" effect to create natural wrinkles. Articulation is completely preserved. With more refining (like hemming the edges) it will look really nice.
I also made a quick mold with Sculpey to cast the kneepad area in latex. After glueing it to the fabric I'll see if it has enough flex to keep the articulation.
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Henchmen4Hire
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Post by Henchmen4Hire on Aug 16, 2018 0:23:42 GMT -5
Here's a quick pic of what the pads could look like with the rubber pads attached. 
Pads could be a little bigger and thicker with no consequence. There are 2 to 3 layers of the stretchy fabric with no loss of articulation.
A little better shaping, a little more scrunching and you've got a kickass long knee pad.
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