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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 4, 2020 12:30:39 GMT -5
Bernie should run as a 3rd party if he truly believes in his principals.
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Post by bad guy™ on Mar 4, 2020 12:37:17 GMT -5
Bernie should run as a 3rd party if he truly believes in his principals. He won't. He hates Trump too much.
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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 4, 2020 12:40:18 GMT -5
Bernie should run as a 3rd party if he truly believes in his principals. He won't. He hates Trump too much. Pretty disheartening if I were a supporter
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Post by RSCTom on Mar 4, 2020 12:42:20 GMT -5
Bernie should run as a 3rd party if he truly believes in his principals. No thanks. Unless he actually had a real, unprecedented shot at winning that way (which would be REALLY revolutionary) anyone doing anything after the dust has settled to take votes from the primary candidate is at major fault here. Yes the system is at fault, yes it's not that different from what we already have, yes we're 'betting on both corporate horses, but we will make ZERO progress towards anything substantial enough to change the way things work voting in Trump or any other Republican. It seriously becomes time to set your differences aside and vote for whoever is the nominee, now more than ever before when we've seen how close we can be (we already are) to being a banana republic. The Supreme Court justices that have been appointed are an absolute disaster and it's one of the many negatives that have come from this administration. I think the electoral college is rubbish in this day and age and health care is an absolute human right among a laundry list of other things that I can't believe are still in question, but to 'stand my ground' based on those principles is selfish and irresponsible. Donald Trump's only value has been bringing out the worst in people who have been trying to hide it. Now that it's all out in the open we have to end the continued empowerment.
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Post by CM Poor on Mar 4, 2020 12:42:23 GMT -5
Beto, Pete and Amy boxed Sanders out last night. I think Klobuchar primed herself for the VP spot if she's willing to take it. She's a big push for those midwest states. Her influence last night was pretty impressive. I understand the DNC's mindset. They think they can appeal to moderates, maybe even Republicans, who are turned off by Trump. And I'm sure there are plenty of those voters, but I think that totally ignores the fact that Joe isn't inspiring anyone to rush to the polls for him. That's where I tend to think Trump is going to crush him on the way to reelection. I also think Trump is going to verbally dunk on Joe for the next 8 months. That might not matter to anyone with an IQ over 100, but it will create a general perception that Joe is soft if he can't combat that rhetoric. Maybe the atmosphere towards Trump has changed enough in four years that a Trump vs anti-Trump election will turn out differently. That said, it feels like we're leaning into the same path in 2020 as we saw in 2016. Wherein, disheartened Bernie supporters don't vote and largely give the election to Trump. The bets being taken on Joe Biden are pretty confusing to me, and beg the question of what sort of population analysis the DNC has working for it. Full disclosure - I'm not a pollster or any sort of statistician, but just on a hunch, I'm willing to bet a Coke that the demographic that is actively galvanized and inspired to vote and become engaged by a Bernie Sanders is vastly more attainable than the awfully, awfully specific demographic of - and let's just run down the list - moderate Democrat, conservative, or moderate leaning non-conservative who either backed Hillary to spite Trump in 2016 or backed Trump looking for a hard right out of the previous administration only now turned off by Trump's rhetoric/actions but not enough to have not voted for him in 2016 who are so deflected by a Trump Presidency that they're willing to revert three hard rights back from where they started to fall in line behind a premier figurehead of the Obama administration who just happens to vote, poll, and debate poorly. *Exhale* Additional disclosure...I'm not now, nor have I been in the past a Bernie guy. I have, however, attended a metric f*ck ton of Democratic events this year (as a non-Democrat), surrounded by actual Democrats, before the full slate of Democratic candidates with their respective supporters in tow. My earliest candidate, who dropped out before New Hampshire and routinely polled at 1% or < 1%, got a warmer reception at these events than Biden ever did. Comparatively, the likes of Buttigieg, Warren, and Sanders shook the damn room with how much support they had. Even if the play had to be made to kneecap Bernie and posture up a moderate, I'd have taken a hundred Mayor Petes before I ever got to Biden. TL;DR - a candidate who took 32 years to win a state is suddenly determined to be "electable".
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Mar 4, 2020 12:56:50 GMT -5
He won't. He hates Trump too much. Pretty disheartening if I were a supporter Isn't that what stumping for another candidate is supposed to achieve, excite their supporters for someone else despite their devotion and initial disillusionment? I mean, the guy has yet to have a true dominating performance when the moderate vote hasn't been split 5 ways. Not like anybody can claim he's ever had outright command of the voting public. Just claims of the establishment holding him down, rigged systems, and it being "us vs. Them". Probably why I've never liked Bernie, too many shared characteristics with someone else...
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Post by CM Poor on Mar 4, 2020 13:23:49 GMT -5
Pretty disheartening if I were a supporter Isn't that what stumping for another candidate is supposed to achieve, excite their supporters for someone else despite their devotion and initial disillusionment? I mean, the guy has yet to have a true dominating performance when the moderate vote hasn't been split 5 ways. Not like anybody can claim he's ever had outright command of the voting public. Just claims of the establishment holding him down, rigged systems, and it being "us vs. Them". Probably why I've never liked Bernie, too many shared characteristics with someone else... One thing I've noticed, as a backer of a candidate that dropped out early and almost immediately threw in with another, is that as a ground level supporter, the only message that felt directed toward us was "Regretfully, the time has come to suspend the campaign. Thank you for all of your support". That was, quite literally, the last e-mail I received from that campaign. Not a single follow-up came in the following days when this candidate threw their support behind another, making the case for why they'd chosen to back this candidate and, more importantly, why we should too. The same thing happened when I had backed a long-shot Republican back in 2012. I can't say for certain whether or not that's happening with some of the bigger candidates (I haven't backed a winning candidate since 2008), but it seems like there ought to be a bit more of a concerted effort in migrating groundswell support over toward the diminishing pool of likely nominees if there's to be any hope for the pipe dream of a unified party. Simply assuming that, because I backed candidate A early on, when candidate A inevitably drops out and supports candidate B, I'll do the same on the basis of what amounts to brand name recognition, makes a really, really strong case for someone like candidate C to come out of left field and pick up my support. It's really dejecting to have gone all in on a candidate and to see that campaign come to an end. It's even worse to basically be left among the now irrelevant piles of signs, stickers, pins, and literature and to have your candidate appear at, but not explicitly host a rally for their new candidate's supporters, speaking to their new built in base, without ever making the case for why that campaign should absorb theirs. It really soured me on a first choice candidate who I put in a lot of time for, and ultimately led to me looking in a completely different direction.
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Post by slappy on Mar 4, 2020 13:31:29 GMT -5
Bernie is holding a press conference at the top of the hour. I wonder if it's Liz Warren dropping out and endorsing him.
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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 4, 2020 13:32:03 GMT -5
People should look for alternatives instead of leaving the section blank.
Edit: amended for literacy
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Post by CM Poor on Mar 4, 2020 13:35:48 GMT -5
People should look for alternatives instead of leaving the section blank. At least vote your conscience. Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.You know it's a good quote when it came from between a set of muttonchops that would put every last Rocky Beard-Off participant to crying shame:
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Post by slappy on Mar 4, 2020 13:46:29 GMT -5
People should look for alternatives instead of leaving the section blank. Edit: amended for literacy I usually vote for the lesser of two evils.
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Post by slappy on Mar 4, 2020 13:48:36 GMT -5
My Presidential electoral history
2008 - Won 2012 - Lost 2016 - Won
So if the pattern holds, my next vote will be a loser.
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Post by CM Poor on Mar 4, 2020 14:00:42 GMT -5
My Presidential electoral history 2008 - Won 2012 - Lost 2016 - Won So if the pattern holds, my next vote will be a loser. 2004: Lost 2008: Won 2012: Lost 2016: Lost I feel like I've already lost in 2020. I'll vote for whoever the f*ck they put out there, but it'll probably be my least enthusiastic vote since 2016, wherein I went with a 3P vote that quite literally didn't matter, given that HRC won my city ward, my city, and my state. If it weren't for the fact that I oversee my city ward's polling station, I'd probably need the reminder to show up in November since the only election of any interest is going to ultimately be my three state reps. Oy.
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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 4, 2020 14:06:46 GMT -5
People should look for alternatives instead of leaving the section blank. Edit: amended for literacy I usually vote for the lesser of two evils. I think that that’s a waste of a vote. I think I’m just jaded
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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 4, 2020 14:08:02 GMT -5
My Presidential electoral history 2008 - Won 2012 - Lost 2016 - Won So if the pattern holds, my next vote will be a loser.
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Post by bad guy™ on Mar 4, 2020 14:08:27 GMT -5
2012 Lost 2016 Lost Remind me again why I vote? I'm perfect in gubernatorial, at least.
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Post by bad guy™ on Mar 4, 2020 14:09:17 GMT -5
Oh, and:
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Post by slappy on Mar 4, 2020 14:13:22 GMT -5
When he's right, he's right
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Mar 4, 2020 14:20:52 GMT -5
And you would think it would be a clue if one of your biggest political cheerleaders in the Primary is the person you'd be facing off with in the General...
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Post by slappy on Mar 4, 2020 14:38:19 GMT -5
And you would think it would be a clue if one of your biggest political cheerleaders in the Primary is the person you'd be facing off with in the General... Reverse psychology making it seem like he likes Sanders so people don't vote for him because he's really afraid of him or trying to win over disaffected voters after Bernie is screwed over.
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