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Post by AttitudeLegendCollector on Oct 11, 2020 9:42:00 GMT -5
Might be one for Steve and co but just thought I’d throw it out there.
There’s lots of figures that people have missed out on for various reasons and I know you can never capture them all but I think we know there are some real big wants that many of us have in common, such as Harley (in fact that whole series) and various others. Elite 12/HOC Kane, some of the Hall of fame (Diesel for me), Old school legends (Akeem, Bulldog, others).
Obviously if they’re not under a deal then they’re off the table but I’m guessing the majority are and Mattel essentially have them to hand but it’s tough for them to find a spot in new series coming out.
Do we think there could be a new sales channel for mattel to try and have a separate dedicated ‘Throw back’ or ‘back catalog’ series where they put up assorted sets/waves of these major wants in a series for a ‘pre-order’ or ‘funded’ sale.
They could have their own ‘Back catalog’ branding/packaging so they distinguish from the originals for those who have MOC originals and want to protect value. It would help get them out sooner and get more of the guys we want out there before deals expire and we lose the chance and without affecting new regular waves.
I’m plucking figures out the air here but they could say if the sets get 5,000 pre orders they get released. If they get to 10,000 orders they get an updated scan with true effects (where possible) something like that?
Feels like it has legs to me...surely there would be enough interest? If not, Mattel don’t lose and can just go back to figuring out how to squeeze the odd re-releases in at some stage in the regular lines and us collectors just have to wait longer.
Thoughts?
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celflessness
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Joined on: Feb 5, 2020 7:30:40 GMT -5
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Post by celflessness on Oct 11, 2020 10:00:35 GMT -5
I'm consistently fascinated by the economics of these thing. Like how many units need to be produced and sold in order to become profitable when sold to the consumer at $20 a pop. Board games on Kickstarter seem to like that 1000 unit range, but that's a different manufacturing process, run by smaller companies with smaller payrolls to consider. It would be a whole new division of Mattel, to handle essentially direct sales as opposed to selling to distributors/retailers.
I love the idea and would love to see the math. I always get the sense that a very small number of people (>300) REALLY want a new Harley figure, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a lot of people (5000+) being willing to buy it at retail, plus international shipping costs (often $20-$50 when I back American kickstarters from the UK). If WWE promoted it on their TV, that would at least increase awareness. If it was just an online thing, promoted in dark corners of figure collecting forums, I can't imagine it would be as profitable as their current model.
But again, it's a really cool idea I'd be excited to see, and I'd love to see the math involved.
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Post by Mongo Bears on Oct 11, 2020 10:03:40 GMT -5
I’d go for it, but there’s no way you’re getting 5,000+ preorders unless you are dealing with the big box retailers
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 13:05:24 GMT -5
I’d go for it, but there’s no way you’re getting 5,000+ preorders unless you are dealing with the big box retailers If we're being honest, even then you're probably not getting 5,000 preorders for WWE figures in the year 2020. |
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
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Post by Warriah' on Oct 11, 2020 13:12:17 GMT -5
Probably not a good idea honestly.
They're better off just pushing similar figures out again, with minor differences like different heads. I want a DM Bret, but I'm not paying £300 for one. Hopefully Mattel will put out a new Bret with the Hart Foundation jacket.
Like they did with the Lost Legends Warrior changing up the wrist tape
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Oct 11, 2020 13:13:33 GMT -5
We're at least lucky J-dog doesn't run Mattel lines, or else we'd never see the chance for re-issues to protect the aftermarket value of the originals.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2020 13:14:43 GMT -5
Probably not a good idea honestly. They're better off just pushing similar figures out again, with minor differences like different heads. I want a DM Bret, but I'm not paying £300 for one. Hopefully Mattel will put out a new Bret with the Hart Foundation jacket. Like they did with the Lost Legends Warrior changing up the wrist tape Was the wrist tape different on that one? I almost bought it just to get the black strap winged eagle (I have the original release with the yellow strap) but opted not to because it looked to be the same exact figure. |
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Post by Mongo Bears on Oct 11, 2020 13:43:59 GMT -5
I’d go for it, but there’s no way you’re getting 5,000+ preorders unless you are dealing with the big box retailers If we're being honest, even then you're probably not getting 5,000 preorders for WWE figures in the year 2020. True |
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Post by BadGirlRyleigh on Oct 11, 2020 14:11:56 GMT -5
We're at least lucky J-dog doesn't run Mattel lines, or else we'd never see the chance for re-issues to protect the aftermarket value of the originals. And the originals would be 1 of 500 influencer exclusives |
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Post by BadGirlRyleigh on Oct 11, 2020 14:13:10 GMT -5
Probably not a good idea honestly. They're better off just pushing similar figures out again, with minor differences like different heads. I want a DM Bret, but I'm not paying £300 for one. Hopefully Mattel will put out a new Bret with the Hart Foundation jacket. Like they did with the Lost Legends Warrior changing up the wrist tape Was the wrist tape different on that one? I almost bought it just to get the black strap winged eagle (I have the original release with the yellow strap) but opted not to because it looked to be the same exact figure. The armbands and tassels were changed to different colors, I think the original is more accurate but I’m not sure of it |
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Post by AttitudeLegendCollector on Oct 11, 2020 15:30:55 GMT -5
I'm consistently fascinated by the economics of these thing. Like how many units need to be produced and sold in order to become profitable when sold to the consumer at $20 a pop. Board games on Kickstarter seem to like that 1000 unit range, but that's a different manufacturing process, run by smaller companies with smaller payrolls to consider. It would be a whole new division of Mattel, to handle essentially direct sales as opposed to selling to distributors/retailers. I love the idea and would love to see the math. I always get the sense that a very small number of people (>300) REALLY want a new Harley figure, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a lot of people (5000+) being willing to buy it at retail, plus international shipping costs (often $20-$50 when I back American kickstarters from the UK). If WWE promoted it on their TV, that would at least increase awareness. If it was just an online thing, promoted in dark corners of figure collecting forums, I can't imagine it would be as profitable as their current model. But again, it's a really cool idea I'd be excited to see, and I'd love to see the math involved. Yeah I’ve no idea what the numbers would need to be to make it work and that’s why I said I’m probably over simplifying things but it doesn’t feel like Mattel would need to invest THAT much more time and effort into it than anything else and the figures themselves have been previously produced so no additional costs there. If anything it’s money for old rope, surely? 5,000 probably ambitious but maybe they wouldn’t need that many people sign up? What if they only needed 1,000? I actually think people would be surprised at how many would go for something like this. Can’t remember what the recent example Mark Sterling gave about another product on a recent podcast but a company wanted something like 10,000 and BLEW through it so they kept asking for more to add additional things to the item (it was something like a Castle Greyskull rather than a figure I think). Would be interested to know the math involved but to me it seems a no lose situation for Mattel. Maybe I’m wrong, hopefully Steve sees it and could offer some insight, would be interesting either way. |
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Post by AttitudeLegendCollector on Oct 11, 2020 15:36:31 GMT -5
Probably not a good idea honestly. They're better off just pushing similar figures out again, with minor differences like different heads. I want a DM Bret, but I'm not paying £300 for one. Hopefully Mattel will put out a new Bret with the Hart Foundation jacket. Like they did with the Lost Legends Warrior changing up the wrist tape Be interested in your reasoning for that thinking. Maybe improbable, but what if Bret’s contract expired and they couldn’t do him anymore because they’d been waiting for ‘the right time’ to re-release that DM Bret. I too want a Bret in a Hart foundation jacket (I actually suggested they do the Montreal Screw job Bret as it’s slightly different attire but the same Jacket so could please everyone - Steve liked it I think) but having some re-release waves would get these figures out quicker while they’re under contract and it feels like at no additional cost to Mattel and means people like us wouldn’t have to pay crazy secondary prices or go without the figure. The numbers would need to make sense but surely it’s easier than having to try and squeeze them in to new waves? |
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,155
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Post by Warriah' on Oct 11, 2020 16:04:15 GMT -5
Probably not a good idea honestly. They're better off just pushing similar figures out again, with minor differences like different heads. I want a DM Bret, but I'm not paying £300 for one. Hopefully Mattel will put out a new Bret with the Hart Foundation jacket. Like they did with the Lost Legends Warrior changing up the wrist tape Was the wrist tape different on that one? I almost bought it just to get the black strap winged eagle (I have the original release with the yellow strap) but opted not to because it looked to be the same exact figure. They basically inverted the orange and yellow colours around. The logo on the chest is smaller on the original, also. The Lost Legends is the less accurate one. ![]()   |
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,155
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Post by Warriah' on Oct 11, 2020 16:09:27 GMT -5
Probably not a good idea honestly. They're better off just pushing similar figures out again, with minor differences like different heads. I want a DM Bret, but I'm not paying £300 for one. Hopefully Mattel will put out a new Bret with the Hart Foundation jacket. Like they did with the Lost Legends Warrior changing up the wrist tape Be interested in your reasoning for that thinking. Maybe improbable, but what if Bret’s contract expired and they couldn’t do him anymore because they’d been waiting for ‘the right time’ to re-release that DM Bret. I too want a Bret in a Hart foundation jacket (I actually suggested they do the Montreal Screw job Bret as it’s slightly different attire but the same Jacket so could please everyone - Steve liked it I think) but having some re-release waves would get these figures out quicker while they’re under contract and it feels like at no additional cost to Mattel and means people like us wouldn’t have to pay crazy secondary prices or go without the figure. The numbers would need to make sense but surely it’s easier than having to try and squeeze them in to new waves? There's only so many figures they can put out there, there's limited retail space in stores and they can't risk saturating the market. Even if they offered them exclusively online, they're limiting their potential consumer base only to people who . Especially on figures that hit mass retail already. Wouldn't it be more logical to put out a new Bret Hart attire with the modern face scanning tech, an improved soft goods coat, kneepads etc? It'll sell. |
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celflessness
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Feb 5, 2020 7:30:40 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by celflessness on Oct 11, 2020 16:21:04 GMT -5
I'm consistently fascinated by the economics of these thing. Like how many units need to be produced and sold in order to become profitable when sold to the consumer at $20 a pop. Board games on Kickstarter seem to like that 1000 unit range, but that's a different manufacturing process, run by smaller companies with smaller payrolls to consider. It would be a whole new division of Mattel, to handle essentially direct sales as opposed to selling to distributors/retailers. I love the idea and would love to see the math. I always get the sense that a very small number of people (>300) REALLY want a new Harley figure, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a lot of people (5000+) being willing to buy it at retail, plus international shipping costs (often $20-$50 when I back American kickstarters from the UK). If WWE promoted it on their TV, that would at least increase awareness. If it was just an online thing, promoted in dark corners of figure collecting forums, I can't imagine it would be as profitable as their current model. But again, it's a really cool idea I'd be excited to see, and I'd love to see the math involved. Yeah I’ve no idea what the numbers would need to be to make it work and that’s why I said I’m probably over simplifying things but it doesn’t feel like Mattel would need to invest THAT much more time and effort into it than anything else and the figures themselves have been previously produced so no additional costs there. If anything it’s money for old rope, surely? That would depend on a lot of things. Even if they do have the old files and equipment and don't have to pay those design costs again, physical production costs money. Materials. Man hours. Distribution. You still need to make the things and get them to people. I've seen a lot of board game companies use this business model to get their product out there, but I don't know how many of them are actually making good money doing it. Costs for small print runs are too high, and what consumers are willing to pay for products is too low. So they are passion projects more than successful businesses. Big ticket items seem to do perform best. Which is in line with the Castle Grayskull project you mentioned. Something in the economics of small production runs of physical items make it more viable to sell $250 playsets than $20 trinkets. Would they be able to make money? Perhaps. Would it make more money than what they're currently doing? Perhaps not. The pre-order model is really cool research though. That feedback of knowing how many people are willing to buy the product before paying for production. You don't get that with a poll or focus group. |
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Post by TheLastDude on Oct 11, 2020 16:37:02 GMT -5
Go through the Ask AFA thread. This has been brought up a few times before, and it's not going to happen. If guys are re-released, it's going to be in Legends, or Fan Channel, or lines like that.
Steve knows who we want and is constantly working to find a way to make it work, but sometimes it just doesn't. Either sales weren't strong enough, or there isn't room, or there isn't enough in the budget, or the talent is no longer under contract.
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Post by AttitudeLegendCollector on Oct 11, 2020 16:40:42 GMT -5
Be interested in your reasoning for that thinking. Maybe improbable, but what if Bret’s contract expired and they couldn’t do him anymore because they’d been waiting for ‘the right time’ to re-release that DM Bret. I too want a Bret in a Hart foundation jacket (I actually suggested they do the Montreal Screw job Bret as it’s slightly different attire but the same Jacket so could please everyone - Steve liked it I think) but having some re-release waves would get these figures out quicker while they’re under contract and it feels like at no additional cost to Mattel and means people like us wouldn’t have to pay crazy secondary prices or go without the figure. The numbers would need to make sense but surely it’s easier than having to try and squeeze them in to new waves? There's only so many figures they can put out there, there's limited retail space in stores and they can't risk saturating the market. Even if they offered them exclusively online, they're limiting their potential consumer base only to people who . Especially on figures that hit mass retail already. Wouldn't it be more logical to put out a new Bret Hart attire with the modern face scanning tech, an improved soft goods coat, kneepads etc? It'll sell. I get that but decade of domination is a one off two wave run...don’t see why this couldn’t do the same sort of thing. They effectively did it with the ‘lost legends’ series on a big scale. This wouldn’t need to be that big and they could even take cash up front. Bret is a bad example from me, as I say, they could/should do the screw job Bret to get the jacket back out there...plus we have the HBK and it’s an iconic match/moment. I agree there are guys they can do this with and it’s fine but there are those that it doesn’t apply to. I’m not saying make it a long term thing, just a short burst to plug the gaps in people’s collections, especially as it feels like legends contracts are somewhat temperamental. There must be 10 solid figures that people missed that really need a re-release that they could make work. We don’t really need Mattel to spend money on making a new Harley, the look they released is bang on, just get it back out, there are others like that too. Rick Martel a great example of someone we no longer can get, they don’t have the option to make an updated version. Had they had a back catalog wave with him in a few years back when he was still under a deal, a lot less people would now have a Model shaped hole in their collection. |
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Post by TheLastDude on Oct 11, 2020 17:21:37 GMT -5
There's only so many figures they can put out there, there's limited retail space in stores and they can't risk saturating the market. Even if they offered them exclusively online, they're limiting their potential consumer base only to people who . Especially on figures that hit mass retail already. Wouldn't it be more logical to put out a new Bret Hart attire with the modern face scanning tech, an improved soft goods coat, kneepads etc? It'll sell. I get that but decade of domination is a one off two wave run...don’t see why this couldn’t do the same sort of thing. They effectively did it with the ‘lost legends’ series on a big scale. This wouldn’t need to be that big and they could even take cash up front. Bret is a bad example from me, as I say, they could/should do the screw job Bret to get the jacket back out there...plus we have the HBK and it’s an iconic match/moment. I agree there are guys they can do this with and it’s fine but there are those that it doesn’t apply to. I’m not saying make it a long term thing, just a short burst to plug the gaps in people’s collections, especially as it feels like legends contracts are somewhat temperamental. There must be 10 solid figures that people missed that really need a re-release that they could make work. We don’t really need Mattel to spend money on making a new Harley, the look they released is bang on, just get it back out, there are others like that too. Rick Martel a great example of someone we no longer can get, they don’t have the option to make an updated version. Had they had a back catalog wave with him in a few years back when he was still under a deal, a lot less people would now have a Model shaped hole in their collection. You can say you don't see why, all you want, but it's true. It's not going to happen any time soon. First off, DoD was a special release for the tenth anniversary of the line. Second, there are a lot of logistical issues that go into crowdfunding. Why do you think all the Haslab projects have been really big or really expensive? They're not going to do it for figures that they can just bang out as per usual and send to retail. Third, pretty much everyone that's "in demand" isn't under contract right now. Demolition, LOD, Martel, Akeem/OMG, etc. So, they can't be made anyway. Fourth, everyone has really overestimated the value of a re-released Harley Race. Sure, the original was shorted because of the issues with that run, but Harley Race isn't a figure that every Tom, Dick, or Harry is going to buy. It's the same reason why Patterson, Brisco, Superstar, and Blassie were the easiest CE figures to find...the market just isn't as big for them. |
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Oct 12, 2020 10:36:43 GMT -5
I’m not a fan of re-releases as long as there are still other looks still available to do. Wanna re-release Studd or Bundy? Fine cuz they pretty much wore the same attire through their entire career. The exception would be King Race since only a limited amount was ever released. I never understood why people are so adamant about wanting that same exact figure that they missed out on to be re-released instead of just being happy with that same character in different attire.
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Post by AttitudeLegendCollector on Oct 12, 2020 11:04:18 GMT -5
I’m not a fan of re-releases as long as there are still other looks still available to do. Wanna re-release Studd or Bundy? Fine cuz they pretty much wore the same attire through their entire career. The exception would be King Race since only a limited amount was ever released. I never understood why people are so adamant about wanting that same exact figure that they missed out on to be re-released instead of just being happy with that same character in different attire. I get that and kind of agree, as I said with the Bret example. Some new attire releases seem to be so far apart though and you end up losing licenses. Maybe that’s just something to accept but having a couple of waves of re-ups would avoid this. Texas Tornado a big want, how long since his last release? He could have another attire (no idea if he’s still under a deal or not) - it’s a balance, nobody wants to see the same guys over and over in a short space but it feels like we do with some (Purple taker! - and I’m a big taker guy) where as others get one release and it’s years and years before another. |
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