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Post by Mark on Apr 12, 2008 14:10:49 GMT -5
Seeing the success of smackdown when he was headbooker, do you think vince felt kinda worried that someone was actually making a brand he created better
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Post by @PaulGriffin on Apr 12, 2008 14:39:26 GMT -5
No.
Heyman and the McMahons always clashed. It wasnt that Heyman was doing a better job, it was that they battled too much during meetings and such.
(Heyman was probably right the majority of the time)
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Post by slammed86 on Apr 12, 2008 15:20:31 GMT -5
No. Heyman and the McMahons always clashed. It wasnt that Heyman was doing a better job, it was that they battled too much during meetings and such. (Heyman was probably right the majority of the time) Heyman owns any other booker.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Apr 12, 2008 16:45:43 GMT -5
Heyman and McMahon just have completely conflicting ideas on what is good wrestling booking. I think McMahon has proven to be better just by the fact that he owns the 500 lb gorilla of the wrestling world and Heyman's fed went broke.
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Post by @PaulGriffin on Apr 12, 2008 16:47:28 GMT -5
Heyman and McMahon just have completely conflicting ideas on what is good wrestling booking. I think McMahon has proven to be better just by the fact that he owns the 500 lb gorilla of the wrestling world and Heyman's fed went broke. Proven to be a better business man. Hardly a better booker.
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Post by rockbottom423 on Apr 12, 2008 17:15:56 GMT -5
Heyman has a great creative mind. He can't run a business though. I like Vince McMahon better, though. In the long run, the WWE is a major multi billion dollar conglomerate, and I have to give Vince credit for making something good of himself and the former Capitol Wrestling promotion.
Now that's not to say anything bad about Heyman, cause he had a pretty good promotion for a while, not the best wrestlers by any means at least for the majority, but he was able to transform a lot of the negatives into positives. He showcased certain wrestlers in their strong suits. All the talent for the most part worked their ass off. Storylines such as Taz v. Sabu and RVD v. Lynn told great stories in the wrestling aspect and Tommy Dreamer v. Raven was excellent from a creative standpoint.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Apr 12, 2008 17:39:12 GMT -5
Heyman and McMahon just have completely conflicting ideas on what is good wrestling booking. I think McMahon has proven to be better just by the fact that he owns the 500 lb gorilla of the wrestling world and Heyman's fed went broke. Proven to be a better business man. Hardly a better booker. Depends on how you measure sucess. Heyman's company is now owned by the WWE.
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Post by @PaulGriffin on Apr 12, 2008 17:43:02 GMT -5
Proven to be a better business man. Hardly a better booker. Depends on how you measure sucess. Heyman's company is now owned by the WWE. Exactly. That's why Vince is a better business man.
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raz2005uk
Main Eventer
Over 15 UK refs & 14 INT. refs now too! 1st WFUK member to get Rock Family 3 Pack :)
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Post by raz2005uk on Apr 12, 2008 20:05:30 GMT -5
heyman is creative - vince aint. vince can deal with money, heyman can't.
although I must admit vince mcmahon was the sole reason the 1st and only wwecw PPV ended up horribly. How can you give the strap to lashley who wasn't even over with the fans??! And the 2 guys who were over with the fans (rvd/punk) were squashed in the match and eliminated early!! stupid booking decision - i think vince only did that 2 overrule heyman
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Post by rkolegendkilla on Apr 12, 2008 20:55:46 GMT -5
Heyman seems like a dick hole since he left WWE. He comes off as bitter in his article.
Anyhoo, when he was on OffTheRecord he stated that he and Vince clashed a lot during creative meetings.
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Post by joebaia88 on Apr 12, 2008 21:15:23 GMT -5
heyman is creative - vince aint. vince can deal with money, heyman can't. although I must admit vince mcmahon was the sole reason the 1st and only wwecw PPV ended up horribly. How can you give the strap to lashley who wasn't even over with the fans??! And the 2 guys who were over with the fans (rvd/punk) were squashed in the match and eliminated early!! stupid booking decision - i think vince only did that 2 overrule heyman Vince isn't creative? Are you serious? If he isn't creative, where did WrestleMania come from? Where did the showbiz glamour that he brought to wrestling come from? The reason his company is the giant it is is because of his creativity. Heyman came up with some great, innovative stuff in ECW, no doubt about it, but if your comparing 'genius' so to speak, then Vince is light years ahead of Heyman. Ok, Vince had made some decisions product wise that haven't worked out, like the Lashley thing and stuff like the Katie Vick angle and whatever. He's thrown a lot of crap at us, but he's pulled a TON of master strokes as well. And it's not just the on screen stuff that I'm talking about. I recently watched a shoot interview with Bobby Heenan where he talks about the differences between WCW and WWF and specifically the differences between the creative sides of both companies. Heenan brings up a case in point where he says Mark Mcguire got in touch with WCW and told them how big a fan he was of Goldberg. Mcguire then invited Goldberg down to where he was training before his match that night, and Mcguire did something like rub his bat on Goldberg's chest and went out and slugged a load of home runs. Heenan says that Bischoff and everyone on the creative team at WCW never thought of sending anyone down to film this happening, they never gave it any coverage. If it had been Vince's company, Heenan says you could be sure Vince would have had guys filming Mcguire picking out his bat then show him rubbing it on Goldberg's chest and then shown all the home runs being nailed. That proves Mcmahon's attention to detail and it's stuff like that that a lot of the IWC never give him credit for because they only focus their attention on the negatives, believing they could do things better, when in fact, it would take some genius to do the job Vince Mcmahon does. In my opinion, there's no one better suited to running the biggest and most successful wrestling company in the world than Vince Mcmahon. Heyman could draw his same loyal fans to a bingo hall every night, but given the money, could he sell out arenas nationwide every night of the year in the way Vince has for God knows how long?
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Stinger TNA
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Post by Stinger TNA on Apr 12, 2008 22:04:59 GMT -5
He can't run anything as far as money wise, but he's pretty much one of the greatest bookers ever.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2008 23:00:18 GMT -5
Here's the deal. Heyman is much more creative than Vince, but Vince is the better business man. Vince was smart enough to steal ecw's ideas so they can be seen by a bigger audience and that's why they got out of the hole they were dug in. If Vince didn't have ecw to steal ideas from, I think wwe wouldn't be around today.
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Post by joebaia88 on Apr 12, 2008 23:25:44 GMT -5
Here's the deal. Heyman is much more creative than Vince, but Vince is the better business man. Vince was smart enough to steal ecw's ideas so they can be seen by a bigger audience and that's why they got out of the hole they were dug in. If Vince didn't have ecw to steal ideas from, I think wwe wouldn't be around today. People totally overstate ECW's influence on the major promotions. This comment above is one of the most overstated I've ever read. If you really believe that the WWE wouldn't be around today if it weren't for ECW, then you are seriously deluded. The wrestling world was a changing place from '96 onwards, with or without ECW, because let's face it, how many people actually watched ECW? Especially in '96 when they didn't even have a PPV deal. The Monday night wars were underway, Hogan had turned heel, the NwO was born and so was the Austin 3:16 era. ECW didn't influence any of that. Vince signed Foley from ECW, but that wasn't ECW influencing the WWE, that was Vince signing a guy who was a proven talent and who was something different and original to what he already had. Foley however, didn't become Cactus Jack in ECW, he'd been Cactus Jack for a few years in WCW and had been successful there. ECW invading Raw that time may have generated buzz of some sort, but nothing spectacular. It certainly didn't help Vince gain an advantage in the ratings war, so there was no influence there, because WCW kept on winning every Monday night. The WWE simply evolved with the changing world around it, and ECW just so happened to be this hardcore, diverse, cult federation which was around at the same time. Had ECW not been around, we would have still got the 'Attitude' Era, and Austin 3:16 and DX and The Rock and whatever else that has happened since then pretty much. How about the Montreal Screwjob? Vince single handedly turned himself into the biggest heel in wrestling following that incident and that allowed him to become a proper on air character and feud with the top 'face in his company, in Steve Austin. Thus setting off the legendary Austin/Mcmahon feud which drew HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE. Yeah, ECW was a really prominent part of the WWE's 'survival'.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Apr 13, 2008 2:35:56 GMT -5
Here's the deal. Heyman is much more creative than Vince, but Vince is the better business man. Vince was smart enough to steal ecw's ideas so they can be seen by a bigger audience and that's why they got out of the hole they were dug in. If Vince didn't have ecw to steal ideas from, I think wwe wouldn't be around today. Not a chance. If Heyman was so much of a genius then more people would've watched his product and his show would still be around. Don't get me wrong, Heyman is a good booker, but not on the level of Vince. Vince has the ability to take just about any talentless schmuck and make them a household name (he proves this every week on every show the WWE does). Heyman just doesn't do that.
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Post by Mark on Apr 13, 2008 2:38:03 GMT -5
Need I remind you when Paul was booking Smackdown with his Smackdown 6, Smackdown was pulling in better ratings than Raw.
With a money machine behind him and someone who knows how to handle money properly, Paul could've been some competition. He has the mind for it and he obviously knows what the fans like
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Post by chumped on Apr 13, 2008 2:48:18 GMT -5
Need I remind you when Paul was booking Smackdown with his Smackdown 6, Smackdown was pulling in better ratings than Raw. With a money machine behind him and someone who knows how to handle money properly, Paul could've been some competition. He has the mind for it and he obviously knows what the fans like Highly agreed. From the interviews I have read, Heyman really knows what he is talking about. He seems to have a real mind for business, recognizes great talent, and knows how to book a show. As you stated, with money behind him, and a smart money handling business man, Paul Heyman could have had such a successful company, serving as a true "alternative" from an entertainment standpoint.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Apr 13, 2008 2:56:11 GMT -5
Need I remind you when Paul was booking Smackdown with his Smackdown 6, Smackdown was pulling in better ratings than Raw. With a money machine behind him and someone who knows how to handle money properly, Paul could've been some competition. He has the mind for it and he obviously knows what the fans like That may be so, but his style is very different from Vince's. Vince books emphasizing characters and entertainment. His style of booking has a far more widespread appeal than Heyman's which emphasizes in ring action more. I have no doubt that a properly funded Heyman fed could steal some of the hardcore wrestling fans from Vince, but I really doubt it would be able to steal the entertainment and mainstream fans the WWE thrives on.
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John™
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Post by John™ on Apr 13, 2008 3:11:53 GMT -5
heyman is doin a show on the sun`s website how low can you get
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Post by carly1988 on Apr 13, 2008 5:37:29 GMT -5
here is a heck of a "What if"
Lets go back 20+ years ago....The NWA Talent pool (which hands down was the best of all wrestling) with Vince McMahons Money and business mind and Paul Heyman Booking....God the endless possibilities
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