voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 14, 2024 20:02:41 GMT -5
I still don’t know why so many people are bothered by finding something in person anymore. Ringside will eventually have an entire wave for less than retail and probably before the retail store would even get it. Why do people still wait or need to find it in the store? Finding a chase or something I can understand, but why are we waiting for mainline figures to hit retail. Note: I’m not saying buy the figures at the higher price on Ringside. You can easily be patient and get it for less on Ringside and probably still before it’ll hit the stores. Because it's easier to justify spending 25 dollars on a figure I have in my hand than it is to put in my card information and go through the check out process online. Plus it feels infinitely worse to pay more than retail (I don't know where you get the idea that things are usually cheaper on RSC unless you gamble on sales that only get a couple of bucks off) plus shipping on a figure, waiting for it to arrive, then having to hope they remembered to actually put padding in the box so my figure arrives in decent condition if I wanna keep it MOC. That's not even getting into store exclusive lines that RSC doesn't sell and I will never see in stores. Obviously you would need to go in the store for store exclusives, but there is no reason to stress over trying to find a main line elite in stores. But how is it easier to have to go in person than buy something online? You make it sound like buying something online is a long and grueling process. Are you like 80 years old and allergic to technology? Buying things online is quick and easy. Most websites allow you to save your credit card information to make future checkouts even easier. The amount of time you have to spend driving to the store is already longer than the two seconds it would take to checkout online. And, you don't know where I get the idea that things are usually cheaper on RSC? I clearly stated that you have to be patient, but eventually, you can get almost everything for retail or less as the prices drop or when there's a sale. I have never seen Elite 107 in stores (I always make a stop through the toy aisles when I am regularly shopping at Walmart and Target), but Ringside currently has 3 of them for $19.99 (which is less than retail), and 2 of them for $24.99 (which is only $2 more than retail). I think the extra two dollars is well worth it to save yourself the time and the gas money (and that is not even considering any of their discounts). There is absolutely no reason to stress about finding anything in the main elite line in stores when you have RSC and plenty of other websites that have these figures for retail prices. I can't name the other websites on here, but there are at least two that can get you Elite 107 right now for retail. I don't see why the stress is necessary. Save yourself the headache and the time (even though you somehow think online shopping is a difficult process).
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 14, 2024 7:00:47 GMT -5
I’m finding it way harder to find BAF sets at retail since the pandemic. The stores around me get maybe one or two cases. Amazon sells out of 1 or 2 popular figures or the entire set immediately. I’ve wanted a referee figure for the entire line. They’re finally making one and it’s a BAF. I’m beyond irritated about that because that Kane and Luger are going to be impossible to find. Just put a referee in the basic line! It’ll sell like hot cakes. Every kid would want to get a referee figure because they’re in every single match on the TV show! I still don’t know why so many people are bothered by finding something in person anymore. Ringside will eventually have an entire wave for less than retail and probably before the retail store would even get it. Why do people still wait or need to find it in the store? Finding a chase or something I can understand, but why are we waiting for mainline figures to hit retail. Note: I’m not saying buy the figures at the higher price on Ringside. You can easily be patient and get it for less on Ringside and probably still before it’ll hit the stores.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 20:57:11 GMT -5
Just catching up on this now, did they seriously give Sasha a song that samples Gunther's old theme? Jikes Might be one of the worst themes of all time...
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 20:37:37 GMT -5
I like the BAF concept. You get 5 figures for the price of 4. And it is better executed than say the DC McFarlane figures because a DC figure with a BAF piece costs more than a DC figure without the BAF piece. For WWE Mattel's, all elites (BAF or no BAF piece) are $22.99.
I understand what you are saying about being forced to buy figures you don't want, but that's the strategy. I know you said I am not allowed to say that, but it's the truth. It's a great business model. That's why many companies do it. Marvel Legends is worse in that you need to buy more than 4 to complete the figure. At least we only need to buy 4 for the Disciple.
And this phrase of "locked behind a pay wall" has to go. Technically, every figure is locked behind a pay wall. Would you rather the Disciple be sold separately for say $50 if that was the only way to get him out? Was Jinder Mahal locked behind a pay wall because you had to buy the ring with him? Is Peter Maivia locked behind a pay wall because I need to buy a 3-pack with two other figures I may not be interested in?
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 17:24:08 GMT -5
Somehow you’re like pro scalper now? I was trying to throw you a bone with that law joke. The general consensus is that people hate scalpers so I figured that was a fun scenario to think about. I don’t think any “laws” should be attached to collecting at all which has been my side from the start. Obviously quite a few of us how different opinions on what and how to collect, but none are more right than the other. If someone wants to collect for personal interest, that’s awesome. If someone wants to collect for potential value and take that risk, cool too. Im not pro-scalper, as much as I think that people can decided whether or not they want to pay scalper or later secondary market prices. Again, I have no issue with the concept of secondary market value, I just don't believe Mattel should be beholden to the existence of the secondary market in their decision making and that collectors are perfectly within their right to hope for/desire/and buy re-releases of loose they want. I never said Mattel should be beholden to the secondary market. I have said numerous times that their business is their business and they have the right to rerelease whatever they want if they think that is best for business. I don't have to like and and I don't like it, but they are perfectly within their rights to do so. However, I disagree with the second part and, like I have said before, that is my mindset as a collector. I do not believe in hoping for rereleases when the figures already exist and you can work towards adding a valuable piece to your collection. That, to me, is what makes collecting fun, and makes your collection more impressive, valuable, etc. That is my mindset as a collector and I believe that to my core. You don't have to agree with it. We can agree to disagree. That part isn't speaking in facts. The rereleases are happening and are going to continue to happen. I don't like it, Mattel has every right to do it, and you guys could like it, but I don't believe in hoping for rereleases. I feel like so many people on here think I have the mindset of "I got this expensive toy, and I don't want you to have it," but it's not like that. If the roles were reversed (which I tried to explain with my Kurt Angle brawler analogy), I would say "Ah, you got that Kurt Angle brawler? That's awesome. I hope I can add that to my collection one day." And I could add it one day if I save my money, or sell some figures, or trade, etc. I think it adds value (not just monetarily) to that person's collection and makes it different than mine. It is not fun to see every person have the same set of figures. I like seeing other pictures of people's collections and saying, "Wow, that guy has such and such Marvel Legends figure. That's cool." Does that make sense? If your just looking at sheer volume, than its borderline a hoard. But if you look at not just the quantity, but the quality of your pieces, then it makes it a collection. The rereleases take away from the quality by diminishing the rare pieces (obviously the quality of the figure is higher with the updates but that's not the quality I am talking about).
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 15:55:25 GMT -5
I’ll be glad with this debate? discussion? is over, and I wonder if the rebelscum (or insert other SW website) forums had a similar debate when Hasbro released Vader in Star Wars black series 2 and then gallingly released him again later. I’m sure there were people on both sides of that argument as well. But neither is more right than the other. At the end of the day, it’s the company’s decision and if they want to rerelease a figure, and they think that’s best for business, then they have the right to do that. Some will be happy about it and others won’t. Ultimately, it isn’t up to us and we have to deal with it either way.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 15:51:35 GMT -5
It sounds like you’re comparing it to scalper prices. That’s never what I would consider a fair market price. I’m talking about a figure that has gradually increased in value over time due to interest, supply, and demand. The laws you speak of should be put in place to stop scalpers from taking a newly released figure from the MNW line and selling it on eBay immediately for $60-$80. If everyone had a fair chance to get them and then, over time, the supply decreases and prices go up, I see no issues with that market valuation. I was talking about the way the Green Bay Packers sell stock (they're the only US professional sports team that operates as a non-profit entity and is owned entirely by shareholders). So the team has done stock sales in 1923, 1935, 1950, 1997, 2011, and 2021. For that 2021 sale, shares were $300, so that's the market value of a share. Now, there are absolutely die hard Packer fans with a ton of money would would (if it were allowed) probably spend 10x that amount to get a share because they want to own one and their demand outstrips supply, but that doesn't make $30,000 the market value of a share. It's an artificially inflated price, and in probably roughly a decade when they do their next sale, shares aren't going to be priced at $30,000. Also, to be clear, I don't think there should be "laws" or etc. around buying and selling figures. Somehow you’re like pro scalper now? I was trying to throw you a bone with that law joke. The general consensus is that people hate scalpers so I figured that was a fun scenario to think about. I don’t think any “laws” should be attached to collecting at all which has been my side from the start. Obviously quite a few of us how different opinions on what and how to collect, but none are more right than the other. If someone wants to collect for personal interest, that’s awesome. If someone wants to collect for potential value and take that risk, cool too.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 15:25:55 GMT -5
It’s almost like a stock starts at a certain price, can raise in value, and then if more shares are made, be sold around that new value. Not that previous value when the company first started. Hmmm… However, if this were a stock analogy, the secondary market prices would be the equivalent to artificially-inflated prognostications of stock prices. It's the equivalent of saying someone was desperate to own Green Bay Packers stock but none are on sale, they would pay over-market prices for shares. (Of course, this could never happen because there are laws in place to stop stocks from being sold in that manner) It sounds like you’re comparing it to scalper prices. That’s never what I would consider a fair market price. I’m talking about a figure that has gradually increased in value over time due to interest, supply, and demand. The laws you speak of should be put in place to stop scalpers from taking a newly released figure from the MNW line and selling it on eBay immediately for $60-$80. If everyone had a fair chance to get them and then, over time, the supply decreases and prices go up, I see no issues with that market valuation.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 15:09:43 GMT -5
Markets change all the time, so I don't get this "the old figures aren't selling for market value anymore" nonsense. Markets can change for many factors. But the problem is the market is changing due to the direct effects of rereleases. It’s not that difficult to understand.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 15:07:46 GMT -5
Yes, when a company releases more shares, it decreases the value of each share; however those shares would be sold around market value. They wouldn’t be sold for 10% of the value like the Greatest Hits Harley and the original Harley. It's almost like, it's a 20ish dollar piece of plastic and is being sold around the same *Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price* (MSRP) as the original 20ish dollar piece of plastic was before it was over inflated by the secondary market. You can either compare them to stocks and accept the fact there are inherent risks involved in purchasing them as investments the same as stock or you can't compare them at all. It’s almost like a stock starts at a certain price, can raise in value, and then if more shares are made, be sold around that new value. Not that previous value when the company first started. Hmmm…
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 12:41:03 GMT -5
No one said that the value couldn’t possibly decrease. And no one said “grow exponentially.” Collecting with value in mind is a risk similar to how something like stocks is a risk. It’s a gamble. I’d rather it lose value on its own maybe due to something like a decline in interest of the line than lose value with rereleases that aren’t necessary. If you want to compare it to stock risk then you can't differentiate the two types of risk. Risk is risk and you assume all of it when making the purchase, that's a part of the game. Buying stock and then complaining about the company making more available for public offering or people shorting it is the type of stuff that would get you laughed at by any "serious stock collector". Yes, when a company releases more shares, it decreases the value of each share; however those shares would be sold around market value. They wouldn’t be sold for 10% of the value like the Greatest Hits Harley and the original Harley.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 13, 2024 10:45:15 GMT -5
I guess the POOR meme is just evergreen at this point lol. If people wanna collect things that will appreciate in value and never get reprinted, they should look into collecting coins made of precious metals. One thing I've seen repeated over and over again is that part of collecting is "the possibility of collections gaining value", which is true, but in the same token the opposite also has to apply where there's a possibility they decrease in value. It's silly to expect these things to just grow in value exponentially and never be at risk of devaluing. If that were the case people would be buying and burying collectables in their backyard instead of gold bars. Full disclosure, I only bought a D-Von from this set so I could use his arms and head for a custom Reverend D-Von. I would have grabbed Kane if I didn't already have the DOD one signed and I have a hard one figure per person rule (except for Cody cause he's the goat). No one said that the value couldn’t possibly decrease. And no one said “grow exponentially.” Collecting with value in mind is a risk similar to how something like stocks is a risk. It’s a gamble. I’d rather it lose value on its own maybe due to something like a decline in interest of the line than lose value with rereleases that aren’t necessary and guarantee a decrease in value.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 12, 2024 18:40:27 GMT -5
Most hobbies are driven by interest, nostalgia, or aesthetics… not value. You are being absolutely naïve if you don't believe that value plays an equal and may even be the driving force behind some people's collections. Some people collect solely for value. Just look at the world of art collecting...
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 12, 2024 10:53:41 GMT -5
Re-releasing mass produced/mainline figures (Dudleys, DX) really isn't that big of a deal, IMO. My biggest issue with that is more about like, why not change up the attires then so you're getting new figures entirely. It doesn't really matter because they're gonna sell out anyway, but I'd just prefer it from an aesthetic standpoint Same with re-releasing a figure that was supposed to be mass released but got cut short like what happened with Harley, John Nada, etc. It's the Ringside exclusive/Defining Moments re-releases that bug me the most Those were supposed to be Exclusive, Limited, etc. or were purposely made to be "premium" items. They wouldn’t be re-releases at that point. They’d be whole new figures. You literally answered your own question there. The point is to release the same looks again that some may not have, or want updated versions. Those exclusive items are still exclusive. Especially MOC. Special packaging makes it still exclusive. Being the original makes it exclusive. That whole last paragraph is false when it’s the figure that people want and when it’s rereleased, it lowers the price of the original. No one is going back to buy the originals for the box. Stop kidding yourself. The value of the original MOC figures of each of these rereleases will decrease significantly once these are available. That’s a fact. Can’t really dispute that. These are not comic books where the first run matters.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 12, 2024 10:16:20 GMT -5
Re-releasing mass produced/mainline figures (Dudleys, DX) really isn't that big of a deal, IMO. My biggest issue with that is more about like, why not change up the attires then so you're getting new figures entirely. It doesn't really matter because they're gonna sell out anyway, but I'd just prefer it from an aesthetic standpoint Same with re-releasing a figure that was supposed to be mass released but got cut short like what happened with Harley, John Nada, etc. It's the Ringside exclusive/Defining Moments re-releases that bug me the most Those were supposed to be Exclusive, Limited, etc. or were purposely made to be "premium" items. I agree completely. I even said that same thing in an earlier post. Rerelease the same molds but give us different colors (with the updated tech). Why do we need more red Dudley’s? Everyone had a fair chance already. And the RSC exclusives being rereleased is the ultimate disappointment. Exclusives should stay limited. Not rereleased to death so everyone gets one. SES Ounk being rereleased would be a real low blow.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 12, 2024 10:13:41 GMT -5
I've never bought anything for my collection as an "investment". They value of something increasing is sort of like a reward for your efforts. Like, I've bought over 1,500 Mattel's....it's actually kind of nice that a lot would sell for more than what I paid for them. I'm not going to do this forever, and when I want to get out, I'd like to not take a MASSIVE loss on every single thing I've bought given the nature of what this is. I've been able to sell some of my older figures at all different times for good money, and I've used that money to buy more currently released figures. It's not the REASON I collect, but it's a nice side effect for the amount of time/energy/effort and money I put in to this hobby This is actually a HOBBY. In case people forgot. This isn't a "make sure everyone gets everything they've ever wanted" event. I used to collect G.I. Joes as a kid, still have my originals. I didn't get every single one, if I wanted some now I'd have to pay the market value for them. If Hasbro just re-released all the originals because I wanted them....how is that OK to do to all the people who have had their own for decades? Toys holding monetary value is a GOOD THING for everyone that collects. You never reply so I don’t know why I even quote your BA, but they’re not doing for just one person. They can see these consistently sell/are sought after. Mattel doesn’t owe it to anyone to maintain the value of their collections. Were plastic drug addicts at the end of the day. The pusher doesn’t care about your well being or “investment.” They want to sell sell sell. Again it’s neat these can fetch a profit, but I wouldn’t hold onto them for 20-30 years hoping for that fat check. Enjoy the dopamine hit of buying a toy. They’ll be better versions or people won’t even care by then. Just remember all this crap ends up on a landfill one day anyways. I don’t even understand why you collect when you have such a negative outlook on toys in general. Baffles me.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 12, 2024 10:10:34 GMT -5
Another classic response. Let us know when you have something on topic to discuss or have something of value to add to the debate. Thank you. Something on topic? The post is about figures that Ringside has for pre-order. Something you haven’t be discussing the entire time. Instead, you’ve gone off on a tangent for anyone’s comment that may disagree with yours. Again… Every post I have made has been about these figures because these are some of the rereleases I have been referring to. Are the posts just supposed to say “bought this”? This thread is a discussion about these figures and that is what I have been posting about. Thanks for playing though. *NOTE: No meme needed.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 12, 2024 9:16:29 GMT -5
Another classic response. Let us know when you have something on topic to discuss or have something of value to add to the debate. Thank you. *Duck noises* Another classic response. Let us know when you have something on topic to discuss or have something of value to add to the debate. Thank you.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 12, 2024 4:28:14 GMT -5
I don’t know how you could honestly think the RSC exclusives would hold their value if rereleases. The original box is not enough to keep the value from declining. Especially in this community. I gave LOD 2000 merely as an example since it’d be completely new. You could do the blue road warriors instead since those were only done as basics. I don’t see what the problem would be with doing the red as ultimates instead of rereleasing them as elites again… When I say “cheap and easy,” I am talking about the mindset of begging for a rerelease instead of working towards a goal of adding a sought after figure to your collection. These were all fair game at one point so there shouldn’t be any complaining. If you missed out, then you have to work to adding it to your collection. I gave the example of the Kurt Angle micro brawler earlier. I was collecting at the time (still am), but missed the drop. It’s a very limited brawler and goes for over $200 on eBay. I would love to add it to my collection but I cannot afford to right now. But instead of complaining or asking for a rerelease, I keep it in the back of my mind as something I might be able to get one day. And if not, it just makes someone elses collection that much better. That’s the collecting mindset I have and that I’ve explained, or tried to explain, many times. I like that this Kurt brawler is rare and expensive even though it may possibly never be added to my own collection. When you say it’s just a “product,” the you are ignoring how a product could become a collectible. Every collectible is a product. Stamps, vinyl records, comics, etc. but they can become something more. When Action Comics #1 came out, it was simply just a product, but look at it now. By the way, you’re wrong about the Dudleys. The Dudleys also wore Grey and Black during the 2015/2016 run. They covered this color scheme in a battle pack but never as elites. Easily could do black and grey instead of red. And I appreciate you enjoying the debate. I can’t stand how many people are willing to jump in with nothing to say and request the thread to be locked when all we are doing is having a conversation. I'm breaking my own word, so I;m the worst kind of internet person, I know. RE: LOD, my point about the red is a general one that I think it's dumb for Mattel to lock iconic looks behind a third party paywall. Any example of a major look they made over a decade ago can fit what I was trying to say. Of course any product is a collectible and collectibles are product. When I say a figure is product, I mean hat getting one is not a trophy awarded for some kind of merit. It's a product produced for consumption, whether one pays secondary market or MSPRP, it's produced to be acquired via transaction, not a goal to be won. Buying a release isn't the equivalent to cheating in a race for example. Re: the Angle Brawler, you're leaving out a key element to that: It was limited in number to 150 and advertised as such during the period when it was up. As I caveated a bunch if times, that is a completely different animal to a mass-produced figure that had no number cap. RE: The Dudleys. Ah,I totally forgot they wore grey camouflage in that run. Thought that battle pack was a flashback for some reason. Good catch. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the red LOD. I don’t consider them locked under anything. They were easily accessible and never difficult to find at the time. Let them appreciate in value like any other collectible and not someone wants them bad enough they can work to get them. These weren’t numbered or limited so I don’t see any issues. The reason I use the Angle brawler as an example is that it’s the most expensive brawler I don’t own (minus unreleased ones) and you don’t see me complaining that I don’t own it. If that comparison doesn’t work because it’s numbered, then pick any brawler that is not numbered that has risen in value. I own the first series of AEW brawlers, but use them as examples if you’d like. Darby has risen in value over time, and if I didn’t own him, I would have to make a decision between saving to buy him or not add him. There would be no thought put into potential rereleases of it.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Mar 12, 2024 4:11:57 GMT -5
Hey uh some more kanes coming? Had to scroll for 45 minutes on this page to get to your comment. Another classic response. Let us know when you have something on topic to discuss or have something of value to add to the debate. Thank you.
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