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Post by WalterF on Oct 9, 2008 23:09:13 GMT -5
Actually, you're the  ing moron. HBK and Taker were both making 750, 000 a piece. There is no way Bret deserved more, especially than Taker simply because he sure as hell wasn't drawing more than either of them. There was no way Bret was a bigger draw than either of those two, especially Taker. Even when Bret was champion in 1997, HBK and Taker were given the main event spots ... because they were putting more asses in the seats, so get your facts straight. And furthermore, Vince spending so much on Tyson added ***** viewership to WM14 and made it a huge success so he more than made back on it. Bret's contract was not gonna draw back immediate money like Tyson at WM. Obviously, it wasn't too major a blow to WWE, since WWE did their best business in 1998, after Bret left. You're the f-cking moron and you should get your sh-t straight before you decide to insult other people. Obviously I do have a good idea of what business is about as did WWE at the time because they were able to turn everything around. Also keep in mind that Bret didn't want to go in the direction of the Attitude Era ... and what would have happened if WWE didn't get edgier? They problably would have went out of business. Just because Vince gave a big chunk of change to Tyson, doesn't automatically dismiss the whole rediculiousness of Bret's contract, and if you knew more about the reasons why you'd MAYBE be entitled to an opinion. nah he was right, you were wrong...im not going to call anyone names tho. No way vince made him money back off the tyson thing, and bret was putting more people in the seats then shawn michaels, taker i dunno. But it was close, bret was def selling out outside of the U.S. more then any of them tho. You're clueless. You said no way Vince made his money back off Tyson? Are you kidding me? He wouldn't have freakin paid him if he wasn't going to make the money back. You think he just gave him 3 million because he felt like it? Splurging money on celebrities for WM is nothing new and Vince always splurged money on celebrities because he MAKES money on it. If he didn't make his money back with profit, he wouldn't shell out the cash in the first place. To say Vince didn't make his money back on Tyson is a rediculious statement. And if you think Bret was drawing as much as Taker or HBK you're high. Bret wouldn't be wrestling the Patriot or be stuck in tag matches while HBK and Taker headlined the PPV's if it wasn't that way. Bret Hart was the WWE Champion and in the midcard while HBK was European Champion and headlining. Again, these decisions aren't just made for the hell of it, there's a reason. Bret Hart is one of my very favorite wrestlers of all time. He is a true legend and one of the best to ever lace his boots. There is no denying that and i love his wrestling, I still watch his matches all the time, but he started the whole thing with HBK. I think it backfired on him after he started it because HBK was kissing Vince's ass and got his way more than Bret did, but Bret started being malicious in the first place. He fired the first shot. |
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Post by hitmanclub on Oct 9, 2008 23:34:39 GMT -5
nah he was right, you were wrong...im not going to call anyone names tho. No way vince made him money back off the tyson thing, and bret was putting more people in the seats then shawn michaels, taker i dunno. But it was close, bret was def selling out outside of the U.S. more then any of them tho. You're clueless. You said no way Vince made his money back off Tyson? Are you kidding me? He wouldn't have freakin paid him if he wasn't going to make the money back. You think he just gave him 3 million because he felt like it? Splurging money on celebrities for WM is nothing new and Vince always splurged money on celebrities because he MAKES money on it. If he didn't make his money back with profit, he wouldn't shell out the cash in the first place. To say Vince didn't make his money back on Tyson is a rediculious statement. And if you think Bret was drawing as much as Taker or HBK you're high. Bret wouldn't be wrestling the Patriot or be stuck in tag matches while HBK and Taker headlined the PPV's if it wasn't that way. Bret Hart was the WWE Champion and in the midcard while HBK was European Champion and headlining. Again, these decisions aren't just made for the hell of it, there's a reason. Bret Hart is one of my very favorite wrestlers of all time. He is a true legend and one of the best to ever lace his boots. There is no denying that and i love his wrestling, I still watch his matches all the time, but he started the whole thing with HBK. I think it backfired on him after he started it because HBK was kissing Vince's ass and got his way more than Bret did, but Bret started being malicious in the first place. He fired the first shot. no he didn't start it - and no i don't think he made his money back. Vince knows no matter what, he is going to make good money on WM...weather he has a celebrity there or not. He paid tyson 3 million dollars....that would mean an extra 100,000 people would of had to buy the PPV in order for mcmahon to make just his money back! and if you look at the WM ppv sale history numbers it doesn't look like that happen at all. |
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Oct 9, 2008 23:37:05 GMT -5
nah he was right, you were wrong...im not going to call anyone names tho. No way vince made him money back off the tyson thing, and bret was putting more people in the seats then shawn michaels, taker i dunno. But it was close, bret was def selling out outside of the U.S. more then any of them tho. You're clueless. You said no way Vince made his money back off Tyson? Are you kidding me? He wouldn't have freakin paid him if he wasn't going to make the money back. You think he just gave him 3 million because he felt like it? Splurging money on celebrities for WM is nothing new and Vince always splurged money on celebrities because he MAKES money on it. If he didn't make his money back with profit, he wouldn't shell out the cash in the first place. To say Vince didn't make his money back on Tyson is a rediculious statement. And if you think Bret was drawing as much as Taker or HBK you're high. Bret wouldn't be wrestling the Patriot or be stuck in tag matches while HBK and Taker headlined the PPV's if it wasn't that way. Bret Hart was the WWE Champion and in the midcard while HBK was European Champion and headlining. Again, these decisions aren't just made for the hell of it, there's a reason. Bret Hart is one of my very favorite wrestlers of all time. He is a true legend and one of the best to ever lace his boots. There is no denying that and i love his wrestling, I still watch his matches all the time, but he started the whole thing with HBK. I think it backfired on him after he started it because HBK was kissing Vince's ass and got his way more than Bret did, but Bret started being malicious in the first place. He fired the first shot. Yeah, you people don't understand that Bret did lost to HBK, and HBK refused to lose to Bret first, but still Hart started the whole thing with HBK...  |
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Post by hitmanclub on Oct 9, 2008 23:41:22 GMT -5
Of course vince is going to have shawn main event when he knows bret is on his way out to wcw...it wasn't long after bret won the world title when vince told bret he couldn't afford to pay him his money anymore. Even tho bret begged vince to think of a plan for him to stay, he told bret going to wcw would be the best thing for him and mcmahon.
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Post by WalterF on Oct 9, 2008 23:50:10 GMT -5
Of course vince is going to have shawn main event when he knows bret is on his way out to wcw...it wasn't long after bret won the world title when vince told bret he couldn't afford to pay him his money anymore. Even tho bret begged vince to think of a plan for him to stay, he told bret going to wcw would be the best thing for him and mcmahon. Vince absolutely made his money back. He generated more attention and buys for having Tyson onboard. Not only for PPV buys, but merch sales and later on when it hit VHS, etc. WM14 was one of the biggest WM's and garnered waaaay more press and attention than WM13 12 or 11 for that matter and Tyson helped bring that attention. It was worthwhile. And Bret did beg Vince to stay ,but the one thing left out of that conversation was that Bret wasn't willing to make money similar to Taker or HBK, so it didn't really matter. Bret wanted the insane contract or to go to WCW. Trust me, I don't blame him ... I would have wanted more money to, but it still doesn't change the fact that Bret made the decision. And to whoever sarcastically said that I thought Bret started it even though HBK decided to not job to Bret first is full of it. Vince never asked HBK to job to Bret at WM13. The idea of a matc hwas brought up and Vince even hinted to HBK that he didn't want Bret to win and HBK refused anyway. It was wrong of HBK to refuse, but he was still never asked to job. Bret started the whole ordeal when he went to the dirt sheets and went to the press and began a campaign of bashing on Shawn and his family. This was right after WM12, before they even had a real feud. Bret was the instigator, period. |
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Bret_Hart_Mark™
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 5, 2005 13:34:12 GMT -5
Posts: 2,272
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Post by Bret_Hart_Mark™ on Oct 9, 2008 23:59:48 GMT -5
You are flat out f*cking nuts! Bret had a $1 Million a year contract for 20 years. How is that ridiculous? Even by 1997 standards. If Vince made a deal that he couldn't afford, how in the hell is that Bret's responsibility to "be more understanding"? That has got to be the most stupid thing I have read on here yet! Vince was broke? Give me a f*cking break! 4 months after Bret left, he ended up paying Mike Tyson $3 Million for a month and half worth of angle work! If Bret "wasn't understanding", he could've EASILY sued Vince for breach of contract and he would've won, slam dunk! THAT would've put Vince out of business. You have no idea what business is about. None. None. None. You're blaming the employee for expecting his boss to honor the contract that the boss negotiated and signed into? Go crawl back under your rock you moron! Actually, you're the ing moron. HBK and Taker were both making 750, 000 a piece. There is no way Bret deserved more, especially than Taker simply because he sure as hell wasn't drawing more than either of them. There was no way Bret was a bigger draw than either of those two, especially Taker. Even when Bret was champion in 1997, HBK and Taker were given the main event spots ... because they were putting more asses in the seats, so get your facts straight. And furthermore, Vince spending so much on Tyson added ***** viewership to WM14 and made it a huge success so he more than made back on it. Bret's contract was not gonna draw back immediate money like Tyson at WM. Obviously, it wasn't too major a blow to WWE, since WWE did their best business in 1998, after Bret left. You're the f-cking moron and you should get your sh-t straight before you decide to insult other people. Obviously I do have a good idea of what business is about as did WWE at the time because they were able to turn everything around. Also keep in mind that Bret didn't want to go in the direction of the Attitude Era ... and what would have happened if WWE didn't get edgier? They problably would have went out of business. Just because Vince gave a big chunk of change to Tyson, doesn't automatically dismiss the whole rediculiousness of Bret's contract, and if you knew more about the reasons why you'd MAYBE be entitled to an opinion. Man I was cool with all of your posts until the last two. YOU ARE WITH OUT A DOUBT ABSOLUTELY WRONG! When Shawn was champ ratings went down, that's why they kept putting the belt on Bret. That's why Vince signed him to a "ridiculousness"(BTW that's the correct spelling) contract, and to keep Bret, you know one of his top stars(BTW in the WWE you get to that spot because you are a big draw) from going to WCW. If Bret wasn't that important to the WWE, then why sign him? Why not just let him go when his contract was up, and not get tied to a 20 year contract that Vince could not afford? Keep in mind that in the Documentary "Wrestling with Shadows", we all remember that don't we? That's the doc. that pretty much damns Vince, Shawn, HHH, Earl Hebner, and anyone else involved. Oh and its also the doc. that Vince never tried to sue from coming out, unlike Beyond the mat. If not look it up and watch it. Anyways in that Doc. when Vince tells Bret that he can't afford his contract anymore, HE TELLS BRET THAT HE ALSO CANNOT RENEGOTIATE EITHER, AND THAT HE WOULD BE BETTER OFF GOING TO WCW! Now as for the Tyson thing, true it helped business, but there's now way the company fully recovered the money back on that. Its essentially like buying commercial time, it goes under losses for the company, and is a tax write off. BTW you think that a major company like WWE wasn't going to be able to recoup a million dollar contract in a year? If that's true they should of went out of business! By that logic if they couldn't recoup that then they should of released 'Taker and Shawn as well. Sure it wasn't a million dollar contract but its only a difference of $250k right? And hell combined their contracts were more than Bret's right? As for Bret not wanting to go in the direction of the Attitude Era, well again they should of never signed him, and if that decision was made after they signed him, then they could have told him "Look this where we are going with the company, either jump on board, or we'll let you out of your contract, no hard feelings." Or they could of made an angle out of it, and made huge money with it. So I'm not gonna call you names other than you just being another HBK mark, blinded by what is staring you in the face, literally their is a freaking documentary out there, but hey I'm a Bret Hart Mark(My name says it all lol). |
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Post by spawnsyxx9 on Oct 10, 2008 0:03:34 GMT -5
I don't see why people still gotta fight over what happened. It was so long ago dammit.
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Post by DgenerationX092 on Oct 10, 2008 0:51:08 GMT -5
J.R.'s blog: "I can't remember when I felt compelled to read one "wrestling" book twice but the Bret Hart book is the first. If you are a real fan of the business and you don't read this book then you are not really a fan of the business."
J.R. just treated the hell outta me. i wasnt even planning at glancing at the book, but after getting a review like that, and the maddness here, i guess im gonna have to read it sooner or later.
The thing is, I was disgusted at the bret hart DVD. He whined and moaned about the whole thing. "I didnt feel like they wanted me to have the belt at the time". I know this book is exactly what WWE didnt wanna produce, but still.
And my two cents on the arguments happening: Bret Hart will never get over the screwjob. He says he is, but if thats true, then why doesnt he do something as simple as show at WM. Bret is old, and im confident he will not die happy, seeing as he will not let the raincloud hanging over his head, ever go. Bret has my respect as a performer, but he is a selfish human being.
(to people wanting to quote me: debate me. im not gonna sit here and argue. only quote me if you can respond in a civilized way. I have a lot more to say on this subject but i want a reason too. im too tired to rant on and it go nowhere lol)
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Post by nelson0755 on Oct 10, 2008 1:27:33 GMT -5
I am not going to start a "fight" by calling out names, but one of you repeat responders, is about the most ignorant person in regards to obviously not only this conversation, but WWF wrestling / history as you could possibly be. You all need to double-check yourself, because they lucky yahoo I am talking about, just keeps smothering feces all over himself and you need to just shut the hell up, or find you something to talk about. Just ranting about something that none of us here really know anything about, justifying your nonsense with crap for knowledge and opinion for that matter, is taking this conversation nowhere.
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dam
Main Eventer
Number 4? I wanna be number 1
Joined on: Jan 22, 2008 18:57:58 GMT -5
Posts: 3,024
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Post by dam on Oct 10, 2008 1:47:49 GMT -5
Might be off topic but did you guys know Bret's orginal WWE gimmick was supposed to be a cowboy?
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Post by nelson0755 on Oct 10, 2008 1:51:56 GMT -5
Might be off topic but did you guys know Bret's orginal WWE gimmick was supposed to be a cowboy? I'm betting one of these guys in particular argues the fact that his first gimmick was suppose to be the Undertaker |
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Post by bigbadbootiedaddy on Oct 10, 2008 3:55:34 GMT -5
It does not change my view of HBK at all. I know HBK was not the greatest guy in the world back then, but he has changed. He is not like that anymore. Bret is still the same ol' crybaby he always was. He has this thirst to be right all the time, and a desire for people to side with him. He is very bitter and it is quite annoying. He's old, and all he can remember is the MSJ (which was his own fault for refusing to give up the belt when HE WAS LEAVING! He made the decision to go to WCW. Vince made the decision to take the belt of Bret at SS, but Bret did not want to. You can't do that. It doesn't work. Bret was too full of himself to lose the belt the right way, so Vince and HBK did what they had to do. Not necessarily a honest thing to do, but Bret leaving for WCW wasn't the nicest thing to Vince, either...both were business decisions, and both men did what they thought was necessary. It is over, Bret. Stop whining. We do not feel sorry for you. Actually you got that wrong. Vince decided that he couldn't continue to pay Bret the 20 year contract they had a signed a year earlier, due to the fact that WCW was kicking his ass in the ratings. Bret did not want to leave, especially after he had let Vince portray the "Hitman" character as a guy who hated the USA. Yes Bret may have been wrong about dropping the title at SS, BUT its Vince's call to do what he feels is right for HIS company. And in my opinion the circumstances were so much different than how traditional rules applied (i.e Bret having the creative power over his last match). Shawn is just an employee, and should've minded his own damn business. As for all the "He's a christian now, blah, blah blah," well I tend to agree with Byran Clark(Adam Bomb) said, which was that HBK only became christian to take the heat off of himself from all the bad things he had done to people in the business. BTW if you notice it took 5 years, a WWE related tv show, his book, and Vince to tell Shawn that it was ok to admit that he was involved? That alone should tell you that even Shawn knew he was wrong! And in that time no one, AND I MEAN NO ONE had Shawn's back when it was rumored, and later confirmed by Shawn that he was involved, well not anyone married in the McMahon family. Vince was the only one to have the guts to say "Yes I did it, and I don't care what everyone thinks, this my business and I will run it how I want." I can respect that, I can't say the same about Shawn, and no one else can either. 1. since when is Bryan Clark the measure of dignity? i can't stand that people can't actually fathom the idea of someone changing their life for the best, heaven forbid a person try and better themselves as a human being and having the desire and excitement to tell others about it...guess eddie guerrero and ted dibiase are all a bunch of blow hards too huh? 2. don't ever say what me or anyone else on this board can say or not say, if i remember correctly (and i do) this is still america and freedom of speech is still free, i have all the respect in the world for hbk, he's has confessed his wrong doings in business AND in life (which quite frankly is NONE of anyones business minus his friends and family and employer) i love how EVERYONE thinks that just because someone is on tv or in nationally known, we all of a sudden have the right to have access to a persons personal life and what and who they belive in in their faith, unless you are becomming the next president of the united states of america, i could care less about it, and go ahead and say, "well he publically says everywhere he can that he is born again so he makes it known and therefore it is our business" part of christianity is witnessing to non believers and to be fishers of men, he is doing his part in ministering to the lost and gaining lost souls for the kingdom of heaven, so, bash him, smite him, i could care less, but when you have the faith and the love of the gospel, as shawn does, I RESPECT THAT! but as always...to each their own.. |
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Post by carly1988 on Oct 10, 2008 4:05:04 GMT -5
Bret is a whiner. He shouldnt "get over" anything and he has every right to be upset about it but after 10 years keep it to yourself cause we're tired of hearing it
Shawn is was and always will be a dick head. I fully believe his "born again christian" acts end right when he walks through the door of an arena. Hes still the same self centered ass he always was. He has great talent and athletic ability but he's very over rated when everyone puts him as "the greatest of all time" because everytime he was "the man" the company was in financial struggles and butts werent in the seats.
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Noel Jr.
Main Eventer
BCA 4 Life!
Joined on: Jul 14, 2005 17:52:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,443
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Post by Noel Jr. on Oct 10, 2008 4:17:12 GMT -5
No doubt Bret is one of the greatest Legends of all time but it still doesnt mean that we have to stick to his word. For me Shawn Michaels is possibly the greatest wrestler I will ever see in my lifetime. At his age he can still put on the best matches ever. Bret just needs to realise that business is business and get the hell over it.
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Post by layton on Oct 10, 2008 7:16:45 GMT -5
Bret is a whiner. He shouldnt "get over" anything and he has every right to be upset about it but after 10 years keep it to yourself cause we're tired of hearing it Shawn is was and always will be a dick head. I fully believe his "born again christian" acts end right when he walks through the door of an arena. Hes still the same self centered ass he always was. He has great talent and athletic ability but he's very over rated when everyone puts him as "the greatest of all time" because everytime he was "the man" the company was in financial struggles and butts werent in the seats. If HBK is the same guy that he used to be, where are his championship belts? Where are all the sex jokes? HBK's jokes are kind of corny now because he does not say a lot of the words he used to use (and by God, I like it...it is about time someone can cut a long promo and not be so vulgar). He is married with children now. He's got a family that he loves. HBK has close to the same influence in the locker room now as he did when he was in the Kliq, but that does not make him "the same self-centered ass he always was" like you said. If he was, he would have a couple more World Title reigns, and he would not allow himself to look weak like he does on TV. He got pinned by LANCE CADE two weeks ago on RAW. HBK 10 years ago would have NEVER done that. D-generation X's reformation was A LOT cleaner the second time around, and when it wasn't as clean, it was HHH making the jokes, not HBK. To say that someone became a Christian to put up some kind of front is absolutely appalling. That is the most disrespectful thing I have ever heard. (And I am not just saying that because it is HBK...you should never accuse anyone of that). I believe in my heart that he is a changed man. I can see it in the way he carries himself and in the way he talks about it. Yes, I admit that HBK was a corrupt person in the 90s, but that was a different man. I promise you that. |
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Post by hitmanclub on Oct 10, 2008 10:06:36 GMT -5
[/quote]2. don't ever say what me or anyone else on this board can say or not say, if i remember correctly (and i do) this is still america and freedom of speech is still free, i have all the respect in the world for hbk, he's has confessed his wrong doings in business AND in life (which quite frankly is NONE of anyones business minus his friends and family and employer) i love how EVERYONE thinks that just because someone is on tv or in nationally known, we all of a sudden have the right to have access to a persons personal life and what and who they belive in in their faith, unless you are becomming the next president of the united states of america, i could care less about it, and go ahead and say, "well he publically says everywhere he can that he is born again so he makes it known and therefore it is our business" part of christianity is witnessing to non believers and to be fishers of men, he is doing his part in ministering to the lost and gaining lost souls for the kingdom of heaven, so, bash him, smite him, i could care less, but when you have the faith and the love of the gospel, as shawn does, I RESPECT THAT! but as always...to each their own..[/quote]
did you just rant about some one telling you what you can or can not say....by starting the sentence telling them what they can't say??? Hypercrite???
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Post by bigbadbootiedaddy on Oct 10, 2008 10:46:05 GMT -5
2. don't ever say what me or anyone else on this board can say or not say, if i remember correctly (and i do) this is still america and freedom of speech is still free, i have all the respect in the world for hbk, he's has confessed his wrong doings in business AND in life (which quite frankly is NONE of anyones business minus his friends and family and employer) i love how EVERYONE thinks that just because someone is on tv or in nationally known, we all of a sudden have the right to have access to a persons personal life and what and who they belive in in their faith, unless you are becomming the next president of the united states of america, i could care less about it, and go ahead and say, "well he publically says everywhere he can that he is born again so he makes it known and therefore it is our business" part of christianity is witnessing to non believers and to be fishers of men, he is doing his part in ministering to the lost and gaining lost souls for the kingdom of heaven, so, bash him, smite him, i could care less, but when you have the faith and the love of the gospel, as shawn does, I RESPECT THAT! but as always...to each their own..[/quote] did you just rant about some one telling you what you can or can not say....by starting the sentence telling them what they can't say??? Hypercrite???[/quote] i wasn't trying to shut him up like he was everyone else on this board by saying, "noone can say this or that either" i, as a grown adult, will never be told what i can or cannot say, he can say whatever he likes too, but never tell someone what they can't say, btw, you have anything better to do with your time then pick out random people and try to gain a higher post number on here? o, ya don't? ok, didn't think so, thanks! |
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Post by hitmanclub on Oct 10, 2008 11:10:27 GMT -5
actually that is the first time i ever did that....cuz i found it very odd for you to tell someone what they can't say....but rant on about how people can say whatever they want...lol
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Post by hitmanclub on Oct 10, 2008 11:13:09 GMT -5
does anyone know if this is true - i just read it on a site about wrestle mania facts
"Owen Hart was originally scheduled to beat Triple H at WM14 but Triple H and HBK threatened to boycott the show unless the booking committee changed their minds and let triple H get the victory! "
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Oct 10, 2008 11:23:37 GMT -5
We should just make a thread for this.
"Official Bret Hart pissing and moaning thread....party like it's 1997"
Enough is enough.....this topic drives people crazy and makes you guys act like 12 year olds. The bottom line is none of us has the facts. Obviously Bret Hart is going to tell the story so it makes him look like the victim, and obviously Shawn Michaels and Vince McMahon are going to tell the story so it makes Bret Hart look irrational and a threat to the company if he trashed the WWF title live on WCW Nitro.
Let's just all agree to disagree and say that everybody involved should have acted more mature. Bret Hart NEVER should have refused to go along with the script, and Vince McMahon NEVER should have let that PPV start until he and Bret could agree on a way to have Bret lose the belt that night that didn't go over any body's head or screw anybody over.
YES, Shawn Michaels was the one who pulled the trigger...but I don't see how any of this is his fault. Bret forgave Vince, why not Shawn? That's like making up with the mob boss who orders the hit on you, but holding a grudge against the shooter who was JUST DOING HIS JOB and being LOYAL to his employer.
It's been almost 11 years....let's get on with our lives people.
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