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Post by S on Nov 10, 2008 22:20:53 GMT -5
This kinda came up after watching the Kane / Rey match tonight where it looked like Kane was going to give Rey a splash mountian bomb.
Looking at Kanes career (moveset wise) he seems to be a guy who can do alot more than seen, but his gimmick restricts him.
In the past and even recently i've seen him do things like dropkicks, enziguris and many more obscure moves (though rarely seen)... hell he gave Albert a hurricanrana if my memory serves right. He seems to be someone who had alot more wrestling wise to give, but his gimmick stopped it from happening.
(though i'd prefer a monsterous Kane over a gimmickless Kane with a larger moveset)
So do you agree with this about Kane and can you think of any others?
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Post by Deadshot on Nov 10, 2008 22:24:48 GMT -5
Santino doesn't do much more than get his ass kicked most of the time...
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Post by HugoOne on Nov 10, 2008 22:32:04 GMT -5
Santino doesn't do much more than get his ass kicked most of the time... Definitely Santino. His gimmick doesn't allow him to show if he can or can't wrestle. I know Kane USED to be able to do more, but yeah, being a heel, he's not really accustomed to hurricanranas. Being his size, doing those moves would get him a pop. Not to mention he's much more out of shape than he was 6-7 years ago.
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Post by The Dude on Nov 10, 2008 22:33:37 GMT -5
Umaga is a heel, but he pulls off some amazing shit
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Post by BulletV1 on Nov 10, 2008 22:39:52 GMT -5
Cena diffidently, as well as Kane and 'Taker.
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Post by Heresy on Nov 10, 2008 23:04:46 GMT -5
Hornswoggle's midget gimmick... he's too small to do much of anything as is.
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Post by Angel Beast on Nov 10, 2008 23:05:51 GMT -5
Boogeyman
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Post by King Shocker the Monumentous on Nov 10, 2008 23:37:54 GMT -5
Definitely the original Undertaker gimmick. I'm pretty sure the man could move just as quick then as he does now, but the gimmick wouldn't allow it.
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Post by AndyPeck13 on Nov 10, 2008 23:44:36 GMT -5
Umaga is a heel, but he pulls off some amazing **** but to me Umaga's move set is more brutal than anything flashy that would get him a pop best person i can think of is Cena... he can def do more than he shows in the ring week in and week out....but due to his never say die, come from behind type gimmick he's only allow to get his ass kicked all match and then come back w/ his 5 or so moves...
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Post by DTP. on Nov 11, 2008 2:40:19 GMT -5
imo Hulk Hogan's gimmick ruined his wrestling skill little bit by little bit as he got older. I mean look at him in AWA.
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Bozwell634™
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 27, 2007 0:11:21 GMT -5
Posts: 4,652
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Post by Bozwell634™ on Nov 11, 2008 3:20:49 GMT -5
Yeah there has been alot of talent and potentional talent wasted on gimmicks
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Post by layzie on Nov 11, 2008 4:07:08 GMT -5
i dont really seee how a gimmick could do that, i sorta did at first but looking at it now its like, guys are hindered the most if anything for having to so rigidly to adapt to a WWE style that gets more limited by the year
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flying-shorty
Main Eventer
Take a bow
Joined on: Jul 12, 2005 8:30:30 GMT -5
Posts: 4,778
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Post by flying-shorty on Nov 11, 2008 5:10:45 GMT -5
I think Kane is the main man I can think of that sufferers from a limited moveset. I read something on the internet once where they said during a house show Kane pulled off a perfectly executed standing dropkick. But that the writers wont let him do that sort of thing as it damages his monster persona. I think its a bit strange, when u look at similar style gimmicks such as Abyss or Umaga, they have quite alot of freedom with moves.
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hbklique1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 8, 2008 23:52:42 GMT -5
Posts: 1,301
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Post by hbklique1 on Nov 11, 2008 6:32:56 GMT -5
charlie haas. the guy has tremendous talent but is stuck impersonating people
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Post by KeBen Owens on Nov 11, 2008 7:18:09 GMT -5
Steve Austin. The man can and has worked some of the most technical matches in wrestling, but when he became Stone Cold, his gimmick was supposed to come off as this bad ass, take-no-names brawler, so it limited him. Austin barely used a suplex or a take down hold until 2001, when he started facing Benoit, Jericho, and Angle.(and yes, I am fully aware of his feud with Bret Hart in 1996. His "Stone Cold" character wasn't really established yet.) If anybodies gimmick restricted their movesets, it's Austin's. Go look at tapes of him in the Hollywood Blonds vs. Flair and Arn Anderson. The man could work a soild wrestling match.
-BEN
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Mirror Images
Main Eventer
fan since '92
Joined on: Jun 7, 2005 4:07:40 GMT -5
Posts: 2,809
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Post by Mirror Images on Nov 11, 2008 7:42:28 GMT -5
Steve Austin. The man can and has worked some of the most technical matches in wrestling, but when he became Stone Cold, his gimmick was supposed to come off as this bad ass, take-no-names brawler, so it limited him. Austin barely used a suplex or a take down hold until 2001, when he started facing Benoit, Jericho, and Angle.(and yes, I am fully aware of his feud with Bret Hart in 1996. His "Stone Cold" character wasn't really established yet.) If anybodies gimmick restricted their movesets, it's Austin's. Go look at tapes of him in the Hollywood Blonds vs. Flair and Arn Anderson. The man could work a soild wrestling match. -BEN Some of that was due to his neck injury against Owen Hart at summerslam 1997. He couldnt do as much high risk stuff after that and lost alot of mobility.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Nov 11, 2008 8:15:05 GMT -5
WE WANT MOVESETS! WE WANT MOVESETS! WE WANT MOVESETS! WRESTLING = MOVESETS ZOMG! Actually, no it doesn't. I think Kane is the main man I can think of that sufferers from a limited moveset. I read something on the internet once where they said during a house show Kane pulled off a perfectly executed standing dropkick. But that the writers wont let him do that sort of thing as it damages his monster persona. I think its a bit strange, when u look at similar style gimmicks such as Abyss or Umaga, they have quite alot of freedom with moves. Sir, do you seriously think that the writers tell the wrestlers what moves to do? A lot of the writers don't even know what moves the guys do. Edicts like that would come from Vince McMahon or the producers/road agents. But more likely, it's just basic wrestling etiquette and psychology. It's more to do with his size than anything else. 1. If Kane at 300lbs hits dropkicks, enziguris and huracanranas every week, then it kind of kills the need for the smaller, high-flying guys. Them doing those moves are far less impressive and the moves become less special if anyone (even a big bulky guy) can do them. 2. It would also kill Kane a bit. He's bigger than most of his opponents, so why would he need to hit them with all these high-risk moves when he can just grab them and punch them and throw them around? Pulling out these moves now and again against other big guys like Umaga and Khali is a good idea, but using them against people like Rey Mysterio or Shawn Michaels? Not so much. The size factor is important at the other end of the spectrum too. Look at Rey Mysterio. Practically everything he does is some sort of springboard, high-risk move. That's because him suplexing and piledriving people would be silly - wrestlers should (and for the most part in WWE, do) use the kind of moves that make some kind of sense for their size and their match. An exception to this has been Brian Kendrick, who in his first matches with the new gimmick, was putting submissions on people that looked so ridiculous. He was like a little boy play-fighting, and it was hilarious seeing adult-sized guys selling that he could really get them in camel clutches and stuff. He seems to have toned that down now though, or I've gotten used to it. As mentioned above, Austin's switch from a big suplex-bumping style to a punching-and-kicking style was down to protecting himself after his 1997 neck injury rather than any kind of gimmick change. Fortunately, the brawling style was perfect for his character and the new direction the WWF was going in (as well as meshing better with his '98 opponents - Taker, Kane, Rock and Foley weren't exactly technical marvels at that point).
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Wago
Main Eventer
Prepare To Get Wagowned.
Joined on: Mar 29, 2006 9:11:27 GMT -5
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Post by Wago on Nov 11, 2008 9:02:13 GMT -5
As far as in ring move restrictions go, obviously the 'E' doesn't allow some of the crazy spots that kill people, which is fair enough. But alot to do with it especially with heels limiting there styles is to due to the fact they want to make the face look better when it's time for the face to start fighting back, or having a hope spot, ect. But at the same time, that just limits more of the 'facey' moves and spots, it doesn't mean it has to water down the match, a good perfomance can still take place, it's just a matter how they use the rest of there moveset without slowing down the pace of a match ridiculously, it kills the hype, which is a main problen with the 'E'. Cena diffidently, as well as Kane and 'Taker. No, people can't keep using that excuse for why he lacks ability in the ring. At the same time, the whole '5 Moves of doom' is stupid, because movesets are normally based over 5-6 moves, or at least from what I've heard when speaking to guys who have been in the business for 10-14 years. As for Cenas moveset being limited via his gimmick, it's BS, his gimmick doesn't effect that, Cenas is pretty much an ass kicking face, he doesn't have much of a gimmick, he could easily get away with throwing more impressive moves in to his matches, but he doesn't and thats his own choice. It's about time people stop making that excuse up for him. The matter of the fact is as simple as this, his in ring work is just a plain old boring style, and thats all. Now as for guys who do have limited move sets via gimmicks, Santino is deffinately one, and definately Boogeyman as well, I've seen him wrestle outside that ****ty gimmick and work a half decent match. But to be honest, do either of them have a move set? Santino just gets his ass kicked and Boogeyman.... and Boogeyman... wait does he even still wrestle?
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Post by wyleecyotee on Nov 11, 2008 11:48:49 GMT -5
I remeber when Lita turned heel she was told not to do high flying moves as much because it excites the fans and she was a heel so she wasnt supose to do that
Kennedys face turn limited his skills of dirty tactics and loud mouthing
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Post by Bubba Ray DJ on Nov 11, 2008 12:01:17 GMT -5
Nobody is going to say the obvious one?
Eugene.
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