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Post by stevecorinoisgod on Jun 19, 2007 13:15:16 GMT -5
In all honesty, maybe it's just me...but I find Joe terribly over-rated. And I'm a huge ROH fan, and I  ing loved Joe until like mid-06...when I realized he's been having the SAME match since 2004. He's like Chris Daniels, except not as bad. Dude put no effort in anywhere except ROH...and when TNA came knocking, even that dimmed out a little. Sure...he did put on some great matches from 6/06 to 2/07...but he was never the same as the 2004 monster that he was. He has the same gimmick, same moveset, same character, same mannerisms, same spots, same ing everything. When so many guys are evolving and changing year by year (Low Ki, Austin Aries, Roderick Strong, NIGEL MCGUINNESS, Bryan Danielson, Necro Butcher all being some), seeing Joe literally become stagnant really turned me away from him. Like 70% of his matches in his last...8 months were absolutely boring and predictable (see vs. Rave at the FYF). And I thought TNA fans over-rated Shelley... I've got to agree with Dean. |
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Post by parcle12 on Jun 19, 2007 16:56:43 GMT -5
In all honesty, maybe it's just me...but I find Joe terribly over-rated. And I'm a huge ROH fan, and I ing loved Joe until like mid-06...when I realized he's been having the SAME match since 2004. He's like Chris Daniels, except not as bad. Dude put no effort in anywhere except ROH...and when TNA came knocking, even that dimmed out a little. Sure...he did put on some great matches from 6/06 to 2/07...but he was never the same as the 2004 monster that he was. He has the same gimmick, same moveset, same character, same mannerisms, same spots, same ing everything. Dean you know I respect you, but despite Joe not totally evolving his stuff is still great. Daniels as well. It might not be different and he might not change much but he goes with what works for the majority. Same goes for Daniels. He's the most over babyface ever in ROH and turning him heel would be impossible, although with Joe teaming with Gabe nothing is impossible. When so many guys are evolving and changing year by year (Low Ki, Austin Aries, Roderick Strong, NIGEL MCGUINNESS, Bryan Danielson, Necro Butcher all being some), seeing Joe literally become stagnant really turned me away from him. Like 70% of his matches in his last...8 months were absolutely boring and predictable (see vs. Rave at the FYF). And I thought TNA fans over-rated Shelley... Ki's still the same ego maniacal Ki. All that's different is the name change. Putting a bandana on his head changes nothing. Aries is still the same as he was in 2004, just more crisp. Strong & Nigel changed because what they had wasn't working. They learned to work within the confines of their audience. That takes time. Necro has always done the same stuff, and it's great. Bryan Danielson is the only one on that list constantly changing. His new MMA-esque style is great. Danielson changes, not because the fans want him to, but because he wants to. Moving on to the comment of Joe being stagnant, injuries often limit the ability to work. Joe's sciatica is terrible. Twice I had to help him get out of a chair and into a car last year. He needs a good 3 months off, but won't do it. His right knee is torn up and needs surgery. He won't take time off. Bottom line, Joe is pro wrestling, and Joe is a crazy mother er. |
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Post by parcle12 on Jun 19, 2007 16:59:28 GMT -5
No I'm not blind. I would not call TNA or ROH audiences large. ROH is not the #1 wrestling company. Just because it is your favorite, and you like the match quality, does not make it #1. Whether anyone likes it or not, WWE is clearly the #1 company, and anyone who argues that is really foolish. And him being a top 3 talent is your opinion, and I respect it. (trying to have a civilized conversation) Wrestling at the Impact Zone in front of 995 people is not large. Nor is wrestling in front of 250 at the last JAPW show. But 1200-5000 people is quite large. Obviously WWE is tops in attendence but that's a different animal. ROH is the #1 wrestling promotion in the world. WWE isn't a wrestling promotion, just ask them. |
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Post by Sam on Jun 20, 2007 1:13:44 GMT -5
In all honesty, maybe it's just me...but I find Joe terribly over-rated. And I'm a huge ROH fan, and I ing loved Joe until like mid-06...when I realized he's been having the SAME match since 2004. He's like Chris Daniels, except not as bad. Dude put no effort in anywhere except ROH...and when TNA came knocking, even that dimmed out a little. Sure...he did put on some great matches from 6/06 to 2/07...but he was never the same as the 2004 monster that he was. He has the same gimmick, same moveset, same character, same mannerisms, same spots, same ing everything. Dean you know I respect you, but despite Joe not totally evolving his stuff is still great. Daniels as well. It might not be different and he might not change much but he goes with what works for the majority. Same goes for Daniels. He's the most over babyface ever in ROH and turning him heel would be impossible, although with Joe teaming with Gabe nothing is impossible. When so many guys are evolving and changing year by year (Low Ki, Austin Aries, Roderick Strong, NIGEL MCGUINNESS, Bryan Danielson, Necro Butcher all being some), seeing Joe literally become stagnant really turned me away from him. Like 70% of his matches in his last...8 months were absolutely boring and predictable (see vs. Rave at the FYF). And I thought TNA fans over-rated Shelley... Ki's still the same ego maniacal Ki. All that's different is the name change. Putting a bandana on his head changes nothing. Aries is still the same as he was in 2004, just more crisp. Strong & Nigel changed because what they had wasn't working. They learned to work within the confines of their audience. That takes time. Necro has always done the same stuff, and it's great. Bryan Danielson is the only one on that list constantly changing. His new MMA-esque style is great. Danielson changes, not because the fans want him to, but because he wants to. Moving on to the comment of Joe being stagnant, injuries often limit the ability to work. Joe's sciatica is terrible. Twice I had to help him get out of a chair and into a car last year. He needs a good 3 months off, but won't do it. His right knee is torn up and needs surgery. He won't take time off. Bottom line, Joe is pro wrestling, and Joe is a crazy mother er. I'll give you the fact that he is still reallly, reallllly good...but there are SO many guys right now (Danielson, Nigel, Morishima, KENTA, Necro, Quack) that are really better than him now. And Ki's style did change...he stopped using the martial arts moves as much and really got some more brawling involved. I just think a lot of TNA fans really over-rate Joe, as he is the best thing in TNA by miles...but in the grand scheme of things, he's lost a couple steps. |
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Post by caveman on Jun 20, 2007 3:34:29 GMT -5
There are two types of people that you simply cannot argue with A). teenagers and B). Republicans. Instead of logic, reason and sound argument, these types of people will resort to shouting and calling people childish names.
If you like Samoa Joe, great, then other people's opinions to the contrary should not matter. If you expect people to respect your opinion for liking something, then you, conversely, have to extend the same respect to other people. Society cares little for the selfish concerns of a singular person, therefore you should respect others around you that may be different. Once most of you mature considerably (and you will) you will look back at your stubborn opinions of youth and laugh in shame.
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Post by ctvampslayer on Jun 20, 2007 15:58:53 GMT -5
I'm part of the camp that finds Joe overrated. He's solid in the ring no doubt, and he puts on some pretty entertaining matches, but a lot of fans treat him like the Second Coming and I just don't see why.
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Dexter MFer
Main Eventer
Indy Wrestling's #1 Nerd
Joined on: Jun 16, 2003 17:37:34 GMT -5
Posts: 1,446
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Post by Dexter MFer on Jun 21, 2007 22:42:19 GMT -5
You think Joe is lazy? I'd like to see you do the stuff he does. Or do it at his weight. Or even your weight.
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Post by THE *Legendary* STINGER on Jun 22, 2007 0:04:13 GMT -5
You think Joe is lazy? I'd like to see you do the stuff he does. Or do it at his weight. Or even your weight. I do highschool wrestling which takes more than what pro wrestlers do in a match and im at 165 you try going through ONE day of my practice, and then wrestle the next day. |
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