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Post by T R W on Jun 14, 2010 21:57:43 GMT -5
Larry Drew.......
......zzzzzzzzzz
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Jun 14, 2010 22:24:22 GMT -5
Paul Pierce is the best player in the NBA anyways
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Post by carly1988 on Jun 14, 2010 23:55:33 GMT -5
The argument of "Kobe cant win one with out Shaq/Gasol" is soooo over done. Name me 1 great player that did it all by himself? Jordan? Nope he had Pippen Thomas? Nope he had Dumars Magic? Nope he had Kareem Bird? Nope be had _____ (A ton) Robinson? Nope he had Duncan Duncan? See above Oh wait, Shaq did it....No he had Kobe and Dwade Not one of those players you named ever won titles apart from the other except Tim Duncan, who was the best player on the Spurs even when Robinson was there. Robinson was on the sideline, with a serious back injury. He couldn't go full games and was half the player he used to be. What Superstar has Duncan played with that is comparable to Shaq or Gasol/Bynum? Ditto on all of these guys. Pippen was the equivalent to Shaq?! Shaq was the best player in the game when he won with Kobe. Not one of those players you named were using the best player in the game as their second fiddle. When David Robinson won, Duncan was in his 2nd year... or was it 3rd? Joe Dumars is not equal to Shaq or Gasol/Bynum. Pippen, see above. Bird's Celtics, see above. Kareem was past his prime but still effective, Magic was a freak of nature though, I admit. Duncan's team mate's after Robinson, see above. the Hakeem comment just proves my point about the value of Centers and big men who are that effective. I mean, the logic Kobe lovers use against LeBron is that LeBron hasn't won a title and that Kobe gets further than him in the playoffs right now. Well, by that logic, 2010 Vince Carter is a better player than 2001 Vince Carter because 2010 has Dwight Howard. That would also mean Vince Carter from 2010 is a better player than LeBron because the Magic got further (but still lost to the same team as LeBron). Or that 2008 Paul Pierce was a better player than 2008 MVP Kobe Bryant because Pierce's team won. Or, apparently this year Vince Carter and Paul Pierce are better players than Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant because they went further in the playoffs with better teams around them? Isn't this your logic/point, just with a different group of players? You guys want to rip LeBron for no titles with crap teams but want to give Kobe free passes last night night when he scores 38 and loses with all stars around him because none of them scored 20. Your logic isn't adding up. How about you talk about how the kid was in the Finals at age 22 without another All Star on his team. When has Kobe done that? Will LeBron win titles when he plays with another great player? We shall see... If you're really counting on LeBron never winning any championships, then by all means, you have a point. But right now LeBron has more MVP's (and Kobe never won one until his 30's) and makes teams better than Kobe does. See you went completely off topic and ranted about LeBron winning MVPs. Winning MVP trophies doesnt mean "you're the greatest of all time". Moses Malone won 3 MVP trophies, the same as Bird and Magic. When people talk about Bird and Magic does Malones name come up all the time? No, why not? He's one of the 50 greatest players in the NBA. He's "won da MVPz" but its Birds (3) and Magic (5) NBA championships and battles that get them all the recognition. Basketball is a TEAM sport and the only trophy that matters is the Larry O'Brien trophy. Kobe has 4, Lebron has 0 |
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Post by user9327 on Jun 15, 2010 0:50:23 GMT -5
Not one of those players you named ever won titles apart from the other except Tim Duncan, who was the best player on the Spurs even when Robinson was there. Robinson was on the sideline, with a serious back injury. He couldn't go full games and was half the player he used to be. What Superstar has Duncan played with that is comparable to Shaq or Gasol/Bynum? Ditto on all of these guys. Pippen was the equivalent to Shaq?! Shaq was the best player in the game when he won with Kobe. Not one of those players you named were using the best player in the game as their second fiddle. When David Robinson won, Duncan was in his 2nd year... or was it 3rd? Joe Dumars is not equal to Shaq or Gasol/Bynum. Pippen, see above. Bird's Celtics, see above. Kareem was past his prime but still effective, Magic was a freak of nature though, I admit. Duncan's team mate's after Robinson, see above. the Hakeem comment just proves my point about the value of Centers and big men who are that effective. I mean, the logic Kobe lovers use against LeBron is that LeBron hasn't won a title and that Kobe gets further than him in the playoffs right now. Well, by that logic, 2010 Vince Carter is a better player than 2001 Vince Carter because 2010 has Dwight Howard. That would also mean Vince Carter from 2010 is a better player than LeBron because the Magic got further (but still lost to the same team as LeBron). Or that 2008 Paul Pierce was a better player than 2008 MVP Kobe Bryant because Pierce's team won. Or, apparently this year Vince Carter and Paul Pierce are better players than Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant because they went further in the playoffs with better teams around them? Isn't this your logic/point, just with a different group of players? You guys want to rip LeBron for no titles with crap teams but want to give Kobe free passes last night night when he scores 38 and loses with all stars around him because none of them scored 20. Your logic isn't adding up. How about you talk about how the kid was in the Finals at age 22 without another All Star on his team. When has Kobe done that? Will LeBron win titles when he plays with another great player? We shall see... If you're really counting on LeBron never winning any championships, then by all means, you have a point. But right now LeBron has more MVP's (and Kobe never won one until his 30's) and makes teams better than Kobe does. See you went completely off topic and ranted about LeBron winning MVPs. Winning MVP trophies doesnt mean "you're the greatest of all time". Moses Malone won 3 MVP trophies, the same as Bird and Magic. When people talk about Bird and Magic does Malones name come up all the time? No, why not? He's one of the 50 greatest players in the NBA. He's "won da MVPz" but its Birds (3) and Magic (5) NBA championships and battles that get them all the recognition. Basketball is a TEAM sport and the only trophy that matters is the Larry O'Brien trophy. Kobe has 4, Lebron has 0 if you think Kobe's 4 Championships with Shaq or Pau Gasol/Bynum makes him on the level of Magic Johnson, I don't really know what to say... I'm sick of repeating myself. Shaq was the best player in the league when the Lakers won those titles. Gasol and Bynum are both top 3 best big men in the NBA right now. Magic had great players around him, but James Worthy or an older version of Kareem certainly are not on that level. Also, I never said LeBron is better because of his 2 MVP's.... I've compared it to Kobe at that stage of his career when he was playing with the best player in the league, Shaq. Other than that, I'm sick of repeating myself and you telling me Shaq's 3 championships leading the Lakers and the extra help of Pau Gasol being ripped off from Memphis that helped Kobe get over the top makes him better than LeBron making the Finals and being a contender for 4 straight years with the likes of Delonte West starting. |
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Post by carly1988 on Jun 15, 2010 6:12:25 GMT -5
See you went completely off topic and ranted about LeBron winning MVPs. Winning MVP trophies doesnt mean "you're the greatest of all time". Moses Malone won 3 MVP trophies, the same as Bird and Magic. When people talk about Bird and Magic does Malones name come up all the time? No, why not? He's one of the 50 greatest players in the NBA. He's "won da MVPz" but its Birds (3) and Magic (5) NBA championships and battles that get them all the recognition. Basketball is a TEAM sport and the only trophy that matters is the Larry O'Brien trophy. Kobe has 4, Lebron has 0 if you think Kobe's 4 Championships with Shaq or Pau Gasol/Bynum makes him on the level of Magic Johnson, I don't really know what to say... I'm sick of repeating myself. Shaq was the best player in the league when the Lakers won those titles. Gasol and Bynum are both top 3 best big men in the NBA right now. Magic had great players around him, but James Worthy or an older version of Kareem certainly are not on that level. Also, I never said LeBron is better because of his 2 MVP's.... I've compared it to Kobe at that stage of his career when he was playing with the best player in the league, Shaq. Other than that, I'm sick of repeating myself and you telling me Shaq's 3 championships leading the Lakers and the extra help of Pau Gasol being ripped off from Memphis that helped Kobe get over the top makes him better than LeBron making the Finals and being a contender for 4 straight years with the likes of Delonte West starting. Did you just say Worthy wasnt on the level of Gasol or Bynum? |
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Post by spreedom8 on Jun 15, 2010 7:17:35 GMT -5
Wow, really? Bynum is a top 3 big man right now? Oy...
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Post by T R W on Jun 15, 2010 8:54:03 GMT -5
I am way too tired from this weekend to have a full rant on Larry Drew. But seriously, Sund comes out and says, we need a new and different voice to replace Mike Woodson. So they hire his assistant? Really? REALLY?
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Post by LA Times on Jun 15, 2010 12:13:35 GMT -5
NBA Finals Game 6
Favorite: LAKERS
Underdog: Celtics
Money Line: Lakers -$320, Celtics +$260
Celtics Chances of Winning: 2%
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Post by user9327 on Jun 15, 2010 15:57:22 GMT -5
The combination of Bynum and Gasol is tremendous. Yes, I'd rather have those two players than James Worthy. You wouldn't? You'd take one small forward over two 7 ft big men that are capable of combining for 13 blocks in one game (game 1)?
Bynum and Gasol comine for 6 offensive rebounds per game on average. Over 17 rebounds per game, almost 4 blocks per game.
James Worthy's averages for those stats are 1.7, 5.1 and 0.7. Just saying, maybe Worthy over Bynum straight up if you think slashers and work horse SF's are important but Gasol and Bynum together could arguably START a Franchise, not just add to it.
If Bynum isn't a top 3 Center in the NBA, name 3 starting Centers that are better. Dwight Howard and..... crickets. Thought so.
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Post by BV on Jun 15, 2010 15:58:49 GMT -5
The combination of Bynum and Gasol is tremendous. Yes, I'd rather have those two players than James Worthy. You wouldn't? You'd take one small forward over two 7 ft big men that are capable of combining for 13 blocks in one game (game 1)? If Bynum isn't a top 3 Center in the NBA, name 3 starting Centers that are better. Dwight Howard and..... crickets. Thought so. Bogut, Brook Lopez and Kaman, all better than Bynum by a longshot. |
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Post by user9327 on Jun 15, 2010 15:59:35 GMT -5
Wow, really? Bynum is a top 3 big man right now? Oy... Do you do anything but troll these days? How many times are you going to quote some one else talking to some one else? I think your last 5 posts have done so. Name 3 Centers better than Bynum. |
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Post by user9327 on Jun 15, 2010 16:03:19 GMT -5
Are you freaking kidding me? Did Kaman, Lopez and Boguts teams combine to even win 80 games?
Brook Lopez from the 12 win Nets?
Andrew Bogut and his one break out, incomplete due to injury, season with the Bucks.
Chris Kaman and those successful years with the Clippers with one of the best off the ball defenders in the NBA Marcus Camby. They never had a winning season.
Are you kidding me?
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Post by Cult Member BriGuy on Jun 15, 2010 16:05:34 GMT -5
Pretty excited for the game tonight, should be a good one.
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Post by BV on Jun 15, 2010 16:08:04 GMT -5
Are you freaking kidding me? Did Kaman, Lopoez and Boguts teams combine to even win 80 games? Brook Lopez from the 12 win Nets? Andrew Bogut and his one break out, incomplete due to injury, season with the Bucks. Chris Kaman and those successful years with the Clippers with one of the best off the ball defenders in the NBA Marcus Camby. They never had a winning season. Are you kidding me? You do realize for the past two seasons Brook has been one of the most productive centers in the league? You can't expect just him to change the outcome of the Nets season. Bogut had a really good season, ended due to injury, but Bynums better when his seasons end to injuries ALL the time? Kaman has such an expanded game next to Bynums. Just because Bynum is on a team with a winning record he's better? That sounds like what you're saying. Bynum is an injury prone big man, when he's healthy, he's not dominate. Plus you have to count in Yao when he is healthy. Bynum is NOT a top three center. |
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Post by user9327 on Jun 15, 2010 16:08:07 GMT -5
If Brook Lopez is a top 3 Center in the NBA then David Lee is the best PF in the Eastern Conference and Devon Harris is a top 3 point guard in the NBA.
Also, I still can't get over how much Kobe is pushed and Bynum and Gasol are discredited. A Small Forward over those guys? Why don't you just take Scottie Pippen over Duncan and Robinson? Would you do that, too!?
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Post by BV on Jun 15, 2010 16:11:38 GMT -5
If Brook Lopez is a top 3 Center in the NBA then David Lee is the best PF in the Eastern Conference and Devon Harris is a top 3 point guard in the NBA. Also, I still can't get over how much Kobe is pushed and Bynum and Gasol are discredited. A Small Forward over those guys? Why don't you just take Scottie Pippen over Duncan and Robinson? Would you do that, too!? No I get it. Pau Gasol is a top 3 PF in the league, probably the best big man in the league right now. But Bynum is not a top three center, please stop. Someone who is as injured as he is and as inconsistent as he is when he is rarely healthy can't be top 3. |
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Post by user9327 on Jun 15, 2010 16:12:22 GMT -5
Right now if you don't think Bynum is a top 3 Center in the NBA you are way off.
Especially to be quoting Brook Lopez's production on the 12 win Nets. Get out of here this is atrocious.
Right now Bynum isn't a top 3 Center in the NBA?
And this isn't comparable to what I said about LeBron. If LeBron's team won 12 games, then maybe... But they win around 60.
You can't even be an all star on a 12 win team so how the hell can you crack top 3?
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Post by BV on Jun 15, 2010 16:18:15 GMT -5
Right now if you don't think Bynum is a top 3 Center in the NBA you are way off. Especially to be quoting Brook Lopez's production on the 12 win Nets. Get out of here this is atrocious. Right now Bynum isn't a top 3 Center in the NBA? And this isn't comparable to what I said about LeBron. If LeBron's team won 12 games, then maybe... But they win around 60. You can't even be an all star on a 12 win team so how the hell can you crack top 3? Explain to me what makes Bynum a top 3 center... I honestly can not see how you think he is top 3 when he is always hurt, when he's not hurt he's not putting up consistent numbers, and he's not making a major impact, and his defense is mediocre as hell. What makes him top 3? |
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Post by user9327 on Jun 15, 2010 16:25:48 GMT -5
I can see your point about Bynum's injuries. I know in this day there aren't any Centers, practically next to nothing, that stay healthy or are consistent. But, to diminish him below a guy who plays for the Nets and a guy who couldn't make the Clippers respectable when they had Baron Davis, Marcus Camby for more than half the year and a young athletic player in Eric Gordon?
Chris Kaman's numbers are not that different than Bynum's and Kaman's team was pathetic, getting blown out every time they were on National TV. Kaman's career has been riddled with injuries as well, so what's your point? That he can't even get 10 rebounds a game playing at the bottom of the division?
Brook Lopez's team had 1 win in January. 1 win in January.
Andrew Bogut is somebody I might give you, if his team has had more success than sneaking in the playoffs in the East for more than one year. Bogut is a beast but I'm sorry, he has only impacted a winning team for half a season. The bucks went on a big run at the end of the year after signing Jerry Stackhouse. It wasn't Stackhouse's play but veteran presence that they claimed turned it around.
I know Bynum wouldn't go to the Bucks or Nets and make them win 20 more games. But 5 more isn't out of the question in NJ (you can't get any worse) and the Bucks, Bogut probably is the better Center at this point. But like I said, it was a break out year. Let's see what happens when they scheme for him and let's see if the Bucks even make the playoffs again.
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Post by user9327 on Jun 15, 2010 16:31:32 GMT -5
You want my top 5 list?
1. Howard
2. Bogut (yea, he probably would make the Lakers better now that I think about it)
3. Bynum
4. Joakim Noah (probably more of a PF if he played with more size, has no offensive post game though)
and I gotta be honest with you, I don't feel comfortable putting anybody else on the top 5 at this point... really who am I going to put there? Brook Lopez from the 12 win Nets? Al Horford? Maaaybe Marcus Camby, but the guy played more PF last year than Center. Ditto on Tim Duncan.
edit: if I put Kaman at 5.... then why wouldn't I put Nene at 5? See what I mean? It really complicates things when you don't even make the playoffs. How can you gauge the impact the talent has?
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