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Post by spreedom8 on Feb 16, 2010 15:58:53 GMT -5
Are the Clips a playoff team this year? No. They're getting more than what Camby was worth(money, not talent) and if they want to, they can resign his ass at the end of the season. The Blazers got precisely what they needed and they got rid of some unecessary bulk. Great move. This trade makes sense for both teams and oddly enough, they play each other tonight. They have what is one of the 3 or 4 best trade assets (that is actually on the market) this coming deadline and they didn't get either significant savings, a draft pick, OR a prospect for it. This is a horrible trade for them. If they would have held out for another day or so (deadline is 2PM EST on Thursday I believe) they could have gotten a much better deal. Heck, they could have possibly even packaged a bad contract with Camby. They should have taken advantage of Portland's desperate C situation and milked them for something (anything!) that would have actually been an asset in the future. Hell, they would have been better off sending him back to Denver for only their trade exception, because then they wouldn't even have had to take one extra salary this year.
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Post by Quanthor on Feb 16, 2010 16:38:47 GMT -5
This deal was about saving money for them ($3+mil) and they also fill a need at the backup PG for the remainder of the season. I don't think they were looking to acquire assets and even if they were, what team was going to give up a future piece for a two month rental? Yeah, Camby is a great player but in a day in age where the league is losing hundreds of millions and the lockout looming, saving cash is all the rage in the NBA. At most all they could have gotten was a decent role player with a multi-year deal or mabye a draft pick, but they opted for cash instead. It makes sense to me.
Portland wasn't going to take on a bad contract and they weren't going to give up any talent other than what they did as evident in the failed Haywood/Thomas trades. Their GM didn't didn't budge and wasn't in a position where they had to. They could of done nothing and still made the playoffs this season.
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Post by spreedom8 on Feb 16, 2010 17:19:46 GMT -5
Well obviously it's hard to hate the trade from Portland's perspective, so it doesn't surprise me that you're seeing things a lot differently than I do. Kinda like how I think the Washington/Dallas is a pretty good deal for both teams.
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Post by Quanthor on Feb 16, 2010 17:48:19 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with bias, I couldn't care less what happens to the Clippers organization and whether or not they benefited from this trade. If they got ripped off and made a fool of themselves I would write just that. I also have no personal attachment to the players involved, Outlaw routinely pissed me off and I'm glad he's gone. Blake was a steady player and really helped the team these last few years but at the end of the day he's still Steve Blake, good but not great. My only concern with losing him is that Bayless has no clue on how to run an offense.
At the end of the day, the deal just makes sense for both teams. The Clippers were looking to save money and the Blazers got a center. Hollinger gave the Clippers a B+ and other writers have commented on how it makes sense for both teams, so it's not my crazy Portland perspective that's formed this opinion.
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Post by spreedom8 on Feb 16, 2010 19:21:23 GMT -5
Hollinger is borderline intellectually- disabled if you ask me. Great example why statistics don't tell the whole story.
Yahoo! And RealGM are both killing the deal for what it's worth.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 16, 2010 19:41:49 GMT -5
Hollinger contradicts himself and is borderline intellectually- disabled.
This deal involves players who are all in the last year of their contract... it's the Clippers doing Camby a favor, nothing more, nothing less.
Obviously the Blazers made out better (for the next 2 months) but all 3 of these players could be on new teams next year.
Obviously (again) the Clippers had been listening to and hearing offers for Camby for more than just this season and this was what they thought was in their best interest. I don't really see any other team offering them anything significant for an expiring contract that is arguably having a surprising year to begin with due to his age. I love Camby but really, let's get serious... what the hell is he going to command that is a better deal at his age and contract status? As the deadline approaches, HOW do they gain any leverage? I just don't see it. You're offering an expiring contract... he's already tagged as 2-3 months of value.
The Clippers did him a favor and gave him a chance to play some meaningful ball this season. If Portland can get healthy they have as good of a team as anybody in the West besides LA and Denver.
Both sides accomplished something. This really has nothing to do with the Clippers getting more players or reshaping their roster. For what? To put on a good show for a few weeks and then be stuck with some guy next season? They got expiring contracts, they took the best approach possible.
Hey, it's not like Marcus Camby, Chris Kaman and Baron Davis were winning them anything.
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Mac Miller
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jul 9, 2007 15:14:51 GMT -5
Posts: 2,068
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Post by Mac Miller on Feb 16, 2010 19:47:27 GMT -5
Marcus Camby to the Blazers for Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake. And the Heat are now hard after Amare, which if they are willing to trade Beasley, might put them in the lead. If the Cavs miss out on Amare, Corey Maggette is an emerging possibility. The Cavaliers were reported to have a deal in place for Troy Murphy, should they fail to land Amare Stoudemire, a claim beat writer Brian Windhorst denies. The Pacers apparently want more than just Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson, the same package Cleveland is dangling for Amare. There is still chatter about Antawn Jamison being traded, and the bottom line is that Cleveland will have a new PF before the Feb. 18 deadline. If you own Anderson Varejao, start scrambling. Yes sir, that too. I was referring to this post:
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Post by user9327 on Feb 16, 2010 19:51:44 GMT -5
I'm not really understanding why a trade for Corey Maggette is worth while for the Cavs... doesn't Jamario Moon already play well every 15 games only?
I just think between Big Z and Shaq, even if worthless 95% of the time, you need to keep that size on your roster for the playoffs.
If they see Orlando, for obvious reasons. If they see LA, I like the line up of Shaq, Big Z, Varejau/Moon, LeBron and (any guard here).
Cavs should focus on Amare, Jamison and Troy Murphy if it's not to costly.
If they can't get those guys... they still have cap space in July to sign LeBron and another FA.
edit: let's not forget they beat LA twice and Orlando twice this season using a bigger line up at times.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 16, 2010 20:18:21 GMT -5
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 16, 2010 21:11:06 GMT -5
I am not sure how anyone can argue 1.5 million is worth trading a talent like Marcus Camby for. No prospects, no picks, nothing to help your team for the future....just 1.5 million that will probably go to Donald Sterling's lawsuits.
Great trade for the Blazers, terrible for the Clippers. No one except Quanthor has said it was worth it for the Clippers, not a single person, because its a terrible move.
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Post by Quanthor on Feb 16, 2010 21:38:42 GMT -5
Yes, I'm the only one in the universe that says the move is good for the Clippers...excellent detective work, Ralpho. Hey, if the team wanted more than just money, they would have tried to snag some promising role player somewhere from some other team. Instead they opted to save money by not taking on any extended contract.. I don't know what future player they were going get ANYWHERE, this isn't the MLB where there's prospects growing in the minor leagues because in the NBA..what you see is pretty much what you get. I guess they could have asked for a draft pick, but $1.5 million pretty much covers what a Portland draft pick would be worth.
Also, they actually get more than $1.5 when you include Camby's $2mil in contract incentives, so it's closer to $3.5 and they have Outlaw's "Bird" rights which is of some value.
For a team that's not competing and wants to save money in a sh*tty economy in a league is losing HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars...I'm sorry, it makes sense.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 17, 2010 0:44:56 GMT -5
I am not sure how anyone can argue 1.5 million is worth trading a talent like Marcus Camby for. No prospects, no picks, nothing to help your team for the future....just 1.5 million that will probably go to Donald Sterling's lawsuits. Great trade for the Blazers, terrible for the Clippers. No one except Quanthor has said it was worth it for the Clippers, not a single person, because its a terrible move. Would you have traded some of your team's youth for Marcus Camby? So he can leave in a few weeks? Just like he was about the leave the Clippers, with nothing, and that other team would be using your draft picks. Isn't that what you make fun of the Knicks for doing last decade? Do you understand now? You are acting like he's actually WORTH something right now on the big market. He's not. Why do you think he's worth draft picks, lmao? He is worth something right now to a handful of teams, if that. Nobody is going to give up real value for a guy that is off the books in a few weeks. Yes, I'm the only one in the universe that says the move is good for the Clippers...excellent detective work, Ralpho. Hey, if the team wanted more than just money, they would have tried to snag some promising role player somewhere from some other team. Instead they opted to save money by not taking on any extended contract.. I don't know what future player they were going get ANYWHERE, this isn't the MLB where there's prospects growing in the minor leagues because in the NBA..what you see is pretty much what you get. I guess they could have asked for a draft pick, but $1.5 million pretty much covers what a Portland draft pick would be worth. Also, they actually get more than $1.5 when you include Camby's $2mil in contract incentives, so it's closer to $3.5 and they have Outlaw's "Bird" rights which is of some value. For a team that's not competing and wants to save money in a sh*tty economy in a league is losing HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars...I'm sorry, it makes sense. I agree, the Clippers didn't go out and get a bunch of players but they certainly handled the situation the best it apparently could be handled. I don't see where the talk of prospects and draft picks comes into play? Are the Suns going to get draft picks and prospects for Amare Stoudemire's 2 months of service??? Why on Earth would anybody give up a future pick for a guy that's a FA in a few weeks? THAT'S why they didn't get anything in some people's eyes... because no team is going to do them a favor and improve their roster state for the sake of hurting theirs. It's simple.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 17, 2010 0:54:25 GMT -5
I am not sure how anyone can argue 1.5 million is worth trading a talent like Marcus Camby for. No prospects, no picks, nothing to help your team for the future....just 1.5 million that will probably go to Donald Sterling's lawsuits. Great trade for the Blazers, terrible for the Clippers. No one except Quanthor has said it was worth it for the Clippers, not a single person, because its a terrible move. Would you have traded some of your team's youth for Marcus Camby? So he can leave in a few weeks? Just like he was about the leave the Clippers, with nothing, and that other team would be using your draft picks. Isn't that what you make fun of the Knicks for doing last decade? Do you understand now? You are acting like he's actually WORTH something right now on the big market. He's not. Why do you think he's worth draft picks, lmao? He is worth something right now to a handful of teams, if that. Nobody is going to give up real value for a guy that is off the books in a few weeks. Wow. If hes not worth anything, then why did the Blazers bother with him? There is no free agent compensation here, Camby isnt going to get the Blazers a better draft pick, he's not 26 and going to resign with them....why oh why did they acquire him? Oh wait, I know BECAUSE THEY WANT TO WIN NOW. So obviously he is worth something on the "big market", guys like Drew Gooden and Illgauskus are worth something due to their contract, but Camby has both...talent and the contract. The NBA season is over in a few weeks? Or do you mean 4 months? The reason why this is a stupid trade for the Clippers is because it's the Clippers, a team that is constantly a mess, and 1.5-3$ million dollars is not going to salvage the franchise and put $$ into the teams pocket to spend in free agency....it just wont. It's not like the moves NO are making, to get under the luxury tax...it's just a bad trade because the Clippers are A) Not going to compete B) Not going to spend $$ in the offseason C) Spin the cap space for a better player. This is the Clippers, and a team like the Clippers should be focusing on getting any type of young talent they cant. Just like the Pirates in Baseball...they make stupid moves, but they at least get a prospect or something tangible other than money. If this was any other team than the Clippers, or maybe the Knicks or the Warriors, it would be a fine trade. The only way this is not a disaster is if the Clippers use Outlaws bird rights in a sign and trade, but then again, this is Miek Dunleavy, does anyone expect him to do that? This isnt an F trade, but its a solid D. Do you understand now? Because I sure do, after thinking about it even more. It's an EVEN WORSE deal now. You say the Suns arent going to get prospects if they deal Amare, then why are they holding out for someone like Beasely or even Hickson? Hickson is by all definition a prospect.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 17, 2010 1:08:25 GMT -5
Would you have traded some of your team's youth for Marcus Camby? So he can leave in a few weeks? Just like he was about the leave the Clippers, with nothing, and that other team would be using your draft picks. Isn't that what you make fun of the Knicks for doing last decade? Do you understand now? You are acting like he's actually WORTH something right now on the big market. He's not. Why do you think he's worth draft picks, lmao? He is worth something right now to a handful of teams, if that. Nobody is going to give up real value for a guy that is off the books in a few weeks. Wow. If hes not worth anything, then why did the Blazers bother with him? There is no free agent compensation here, Camby isnt going to get the Blazers a better draft pick, he's not 26 and going to resign with them....why oh why did they acquire him? Oh wait, I know BECAUSE THEY WANT TO WIN NOW. So obviously he is worth something on the "big market", guys like Drew Gooden and Illgauskus are worth something due to their contract, but Camby has both...talent and the contract. The NBA season is over in a few weeks? Or do you mean 4 months? The reason why this is a stupid trade for the Clippers is because it's the Clippers, a team that is constantly a mess, and 1.5-3$ million dollars is not going to salvage the franchise and put $$ into the teams pocket to spend in free agency....it just wont. It's not like the moves NO are making, to get under the luxury tax...it's just a bad trade because the Clippers are A) Not going to compete B) Not going to spend $$ in the offseason C) Spin the cap space for a better player. This is the Clippers, and a team like the Clippers should be focusing on getting any type of young talent they cant. Just like the Pirates in Baseball...they make stupid moves, but they at least get a prospect or something tangible other than money. If this was any other team than the Clippers, or maybe the Knicks or the Warriors, it would be a fine trade. The only way this is not a disaster is if the Clippers use Outlaws bird rights in a sign and trade, but then again, this is Miek Dunleavy, does anyone expect him to do that? This isnt an F trade, but its a solid D. Do you understand now? Because I sure do, after thinking about it even more. It's an EVEN WORSE deal now. You say the Suns arent going to get prospects if they deal Amare, then why are they holding out for someone like Beasely or even Hickson? Hickson is by all definition a prospect. that's a nice effort there but it still doesn't change reality; what you're dreaming about isn't reality and isn't possible and doesn't happen in the NBA. Maybe in the MLB but not in the NBA. Because Marcus Camby is worth a lot to the Blazers and maybe a few other teams right now but they know the Clippers don't have many options and this is not even the caliber of Amare we are talking about here... it's Marcus... Camby. Can we come back to Earth now? Draft picks!?!?!?! For an OLD MAN who is a FREE AGENT in July? That's how teams die and spend years with a crippled roster. That's your answer Ralpho. My OPINION is not your answer, HISTORY and REALITY are. You don't have to be stubborn this time, it's history you're saying is flawed, because that's where I'm basing my opinion from. Your proposed situation is also based off of the Blazers, with the addition of Marcus Camby, winning it all... right? Ok you throw the youth away to take on the Lakers and Denver with a guy who will be a free agent in July... GOOD THINKING! Let's handicap ourselves further than this season for a guy who may very well play in UNDER 40 GAMES in our uniform. Can you stop scraping the bottom of the barrel here? Draft picks for Marcus Camby is absurd. Now please, this is where things get out of control. We disagree right? Be content with your showing, because I am with mine.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 17, 2010 1:10:40 GMT -5
Would you have traded some of your team's youth for Marcus Camby? So he can leave in a few weeks? Just like he was about the leave the Clippers, with nothing, and that other team would be using your draft picks. Isn't that what you make fun of the Knicks for doing last decade? Do you understand now? You are acting like he's actually WORTH something right now on the big market. He's not. Why do you think he's worth draft picks, lmao? He is worth something right now to a handful of teams, if that. Nobody is going to give up real value for a guy that is off the books in a few weeks. Wow. If hes not worth anything, then why did the Blazers bother with him? There is no free agent compensation here, Camby isnt going to get the Blazers a better draft pick, he's not 26 and going to resign with them....why oh why did they acquire him? Oh wait, I know BECAUSE THEY WANT TO WIN NOW. So obviously he is worth something on the "big market", guys like Drew Gooden and Illgauskus are worth something due to their contract, but Camby has both...talent and the contract. The NBA season is over in a few weeks? Or do you mean 4 months? The reason why this is a stupid trade for the Clippers is because it's the Clippers, a team that is constantly a mess, and 1.5-3$ million dollars is not going to salvage the franchise and put $$ into the teams pocket to spend in free agency....it just wont. It's not like the moves NO are making, to get under the luxury tax...it's just a bad trade because the Clippers are A) Not going to compete B) Not going to spend $$ in the offseason C) Spin the cap space for a better player. This is the Clippers, and a team like the Clippers should be focusing on getting any type of young talent they cant. Just like the Pirates in Baseball...they make stupid moves, but they at least get a prospect or something tangible other than money. If this was any other team than the Clippers, or maybe the Knicks or the Warriors, it would be a fine trade. The only way this is not a disaster is if the Clippers use Outlaws bird rights in a sign and trade, but then again, this is Miek Dunleavy, does anyone expect him to do that? This isnt an F trade, but its a solid D. Do you understand now? Because I sure do, after thinking about it even more. It's an EVEN WORSE deal now. You say the Suns arent going to get prospects if they deal Amare, then why are they holding out for someone like Beasely or even Hickson? Hickson is by all definition a prospect. Ok here is where something beyond your capacity to understand is going to happen.... I'm going to admit.... that Beasley or Hickson for Amare is actually a decent young talent in return for a guy who is in the last year of his contract. But I will also do myself a credit and say that Amare is likely to resign with Miami or Cleveland if Wade or LeBron stay and the management in both of those cities are tied at the hands in making sure they can keep them... so this becomes a bit unorthodox. But sure, this has everything to do with proving your point that you'd trade a bunch of youth or draft picks for Marcus Camby's last few games on a big contract from his prime. edit: not to mention Amare is like half the age of Marcus Camby and Camby is just as likely to go sign for the veteran minimum for a stacked roster than he is sign a big deal with another team like the Blazers.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 17, 2010 1:20:55 GMT -5
Here we go again..."my opinion = facts"
You arent a GM, you do not know what they are thinking or how they view their team, this is YOUR opinion, it is not facts.
We are learning, it will take time, but we are learning. You are getting there.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 17, 2010 1:33:28 GMT -5
You just come back with some belittling approach... what the hell good is that?
That proves your point about Marcus Camby being worth young prospects right?
I think it just proves that you can't handle a good debate without resorting to this crap (the condescending implications of you teaching me and me learning, perfect example of your inferiority complex at it's finest). This isn't about the debate, it's just about you being superior, as you've shown, you resort to that crap every time.
Did I or did I not credit your opinion about Amare and admit mine had some flaws? This shows I am capable to giving credit when due, that I am capable of accepting being wrong or flawed in my stance. This just takes a giant crap all over your cop out approach right here.
You're a baby, you don't like being wrong. You melt down for a page when it happens and then blame me every time... I get it, cool, it's ALWAYS going to be like this. Great.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 17, 2010 2:02:18 GMT -5
The best part about all this is you think I was condescending when you made comments...without me even talking you, out of the blue and unprovoked....such as: "Do you understand now" Implying I was stoopider than you and you were "schooling" me or "that's a nice effort there but it still doesn't change reality;" Again, implying I am not as smart as you and I am trying to tie my shoes for the first time or "Ok here is where something beyond your capacity to understand is going to happen...." ANOTHER insult about my intelligence! or " Can we come back to Earth now" Implying my comments, just like that of others in this thread and on TV are out of this world.....because you are smarter than me And you have the GAUL to cry "condescending" and me being a baby after I make a comment to you like the half dozen you made to me. This is classic. You are so blinded about beating on people from your ivory tower you really cant even see when you turn hypocritical, you are just a giant parody of yourself
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 17, 2010 10:13:32 GMT -5
The Knicks and Celtics are reportedly close to a deal which would send Nate Robinson to Boston in exchange for Eddie House. Mike D'Antoni may have interest in House because the guard played for him while they were in Phoenix together. If House lands in New York, his value would rise while Robinson's value would likely be undetermined depending on how much Doc Rivers uses him.
This sucks for two reasons, we kinda need House and the Coach D'Antoni Twitter guy will not have Nate to bitch at anymore
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Post by spreedom8 on Feb 17, 2010 11:21:23 GMT -5
Nate for House doesn't work financially because Nate is in the first year of his current contract, so his Base Year Compensation comes into play.
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