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Post by Swarm on Nov 15, 2009 7:38:13 GMT -5
So I came into watching this main event thinking I would be cheering on Couture but for some reason Vera had my vote ever since I watched the Countdown show and saw the class and respect that he has, not to mention his determination to climb to the top. Good to know old school pro wrestling storylines still work on people these days. Why am I not surprised somebody who was swayed over by the personality of a fighter prior to the fight is all of a sudden up in arms when that particular fighter goes on to lose a decision? And to see Couture do NOTHING to beat Vera and still get the win pisses me off. What does Mike Goldberg say at the beginning of every show? Fights will be judged by striking, grappling, aggression, and octagon control. Let's take a look at the facts here; - Vera did have an edge on the feet when there was reasonable distance between the two, most notably scoring a knockdown. However Randy did land a good number of shots himself and countered most of Vera's striking with well-timed clinching not to mention when he was knocked down, he quickly got into full guard and neutralized Vera. - Randy out-grappled Vera the entire fight, most notably with the clinch work, threatening and execution of takedowns, and even when he himself was taken down and mounted, quickly hipping out and getting back to a neutral position. - Randy constantly moved forward while Vera almost constantly moved backward. - Randy controlled Vera against the fence at least 75% off the duration of the fight. Explain to me where exactly in there did Randy Couture do absolutely nothing and Brandon Vera do so very much to decisively win the fight? Couture couldn't stand toe to toe with Brandon and could only muscle him against the fence every time he got close and still could not take Vera down....Vera stopped 99% of Coutures take downs and the one time he did get taken down he got right back up. It's a good thing we have all these ignorant, crossover WWE fans who only want to see, as Mike Goldberg would put it, "two guys stand and bang" rather than actual execution of technique and strategy. It's people like you that make this sport worse. That makes Kimbo Slice get a UFC push, that keeps Marcus Davis employed, that buries Yushin Okami, and perpetuates this notion that a fighter's ability to stand in front of another and throw reckless punches is somehow more legitimate than one who strategically defeats his opponent. You say Randy Couture couldn't stand toe to toe with Brandon and thus clinched him, however this is massively deficient for two reasons; 1. If Brandon Vera had better grappling, he would not have been stuck in the clinch. 2. You can make the argument that Brandon Vera couldn't compete in the clinch and thus threw strikes rather than pursue a grappling match. It works both ways. Not to mention while Randy did only get one takedown, he wasn't exactly giving it 100% to getting Vera on the ground with all of them. Anybody who's ever done any amount of Jiu Jitsu or grappling will tell you that it wears you out very quickly. Brandon Vera's conditioning has shown to be a little suspect recently, it makes sense for Randy Couture to have grappled him for the majority of their fight as to cause fatigue on the part of Brandon Vera. You know, strategy, right? Vera hurt Randy as soon as the fight started and in the 2nd and 3rd round he crushed Randy with the leg kicks and there was even debate that the fight could have been stopped after Couture grabbed his stomach in pain and turned completely away from Vera and ran away. There was no intelligent defending there on Randys part. Way to exaggerate, my friend. And yeah, Randy showed no intelligent defense when he got knocked down and almost immediately got into full guard. None at all. But if that wasn't enough to show Vera had the edge, he then takes down Couture and keeps him down for a bit and lands another solid leg kick in the 3rd. You mean the 10-15 seconds or so that Brandon had Couture on his back and mounted until Randy hipped out and almost immediately got to his feet? It's strange that you would say that because I almost recall you earlier saying something that completely contradicts that... Vera stopped 99% of Coutures take downs and the one time he did get taken down he got right back up. ... Ah. But with that being said, why would anyone criticize one fighter and praise another for doing the exact same thing? What could possibly motivate a person to show such blatant inconsistency? So I came into watching this main event thinking I would be cheering on Couture but for some reason Vera had my vote ever since I watched the Countdown show and saw the class and respect that he has, not to mention his determination to climb to the top. ... Oh... I see... Hrm... Yeah... |
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Nov 15, 2009 7:45:41 GMT -5
I have no doubt in my mind that GSP will make Hardy look like a clueless rookie. IMO it would be an even bigger upset, by a large margin in fact, than the Matt Serra loss if Dan Hardy managed to beat GSP. Yeah, for sure. However, I don't even give Dan Hardy a "Matt Serra chance" in this fight. He's got ZERO chance of beating GSP. It's just not possible in my opinion seeing how good GSP is at this point. He's literally the "Anderson Silva" of the Welterweight division and some new upstart like Dan Hardy doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of beating someone that good because he hasn't been tested to that degree yet. He hasn't been in the wars GSP has. He hasn't fought the quality of guys GSP has defeated. Dan Hardy said that Mike Swick was in over his head last night during the pre-fight smacktalk. Well, he's in WAY over his head going into the GSP fight. He has no idea what he's in for and the pressure and pace GSP will put his way. Dan Hardy should've fought some quality guys like Koscheck, Fitch, Alves and Matt Hughes before getting a shot at GSP. If he got by those guys, then my opinion would be different. But he hasn't and it will be nothing more than a complete fluke if he defeated GSP. I believe GSP will completely outclass and embarass Dan Hardy in this fight and it will be over in the 1st round. |
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Post by legendary123 on Nov 15, 2009 9:30:38 GMT -5
So I came into watching this main event thinking I would be cheering on Couture but for some reason Vera had my vote ever since I watched the Countdown show and saw the class and respect that he has, not to mention his determination to climb to the top. Good to know old school pro wrestling storylines still work on people these days. Why am I not surprised somebody who was swayed over by the personality of a fighter prior to the fight is all of a sudden up in arms when that particular fighter goes on to lose a decision? What does Mike Goldberg say at the beginning of every show? Fights will be judged by striking, grappling, aggression, and octagon control. Let's take a look at the facts here; - Vera did have an edge on the feet when there was reasonable distance between the two, most notably scoring a knockdown. However Randy did land a good number of shots himself and countered most of Vera's striking with well-timed clinching not to mention when he was knocked down, he quickly got into full guard and neutralized Vera. - Randy out-grappled Vera the entire fight, most notably with the clinch work, threatening and execution of takedowns, and even when he himself was taken down and mounted, quickly hipping out and getting back to a neutral position. - Randy constantly moved forward while Vera almost constantly moved backward. - Randy controlled Vera against the fence at least 75% off the duration of the fight. Explain to me where exactly in there did Randy Couture do absolutely nothing and Brandon Vera do so very much to decisively win the fight? It's a good thing we have all these ignorant, crossover WWE fans who only want to see, as Mike Goldberg would put it, "two guys stand and bang" rather than actual execution of technique and strategy. It's people like you that make this sport worse. That makes Kimbo Slice get a UFC push, that keeps Marcus Davis employed, that buries Yushin Okami, and perpetuates this notion that a fighter's ability to stand in front of another and throw reckless punches is somehow more legitimate than one who strategically defeats his opponent. You say Randy Couture couldn't stand toe to toe with Brandon and thus clinched him, however this is massively deficient for two reasons; 1. If Brandon Vera had better grappling, he would not have been stuck in the clinch. 2. You can make the argument that Brandon Vera couldn't compete in the clinch and thus threw strikes rather than pursue a grappling match. It works both ways. Not to mention while Randy did only get one takedown, he wasn't exactly giving it 100% to getting Vera on the ground with all of them. Anybody who's ever done any amount of Jiu Jitsu or grappling will tell you that it wears you out very quickly. Brandon Vera's conditioning has shown to be a little suspect recently, it makes sense for Randy Couture to have grappled him for the majority of their fight as to cause fatigue on the part of Brandon Vera. You know, strategy, right? Way to exaggerate, my friend. And yeah, Randy showed no intelligent defense when he got knocked down and almost immediately got into full guard. None at all. You mean the 10-15 seconds or so that Brandon had Couture on his back and mounted until Randy hipped out and almost immediately got to his feet? It's strange that you would say that because I almost recall you earlier saying something that completely contradicts that... ... Ah. But with that being said, why would anyone criticize one fighter and praise another for doing the exact same thing? What could possibly motivate a person to show such blatant inconsistency? So I came into watching this main event thinking I would be cheering on Couture but for some reason Vera had my vote ever since I watched the Countdown show and saw the class and respect that he has, not to mention his determination to climb to the top. ... Oh... I see... Hrm... Yeah... Instead of being the BIGGEST a s shole you could possibly be, you could just make your argument or give your opinion and not jump down my throat you cocky piece of sh it. You are a complete idiot talking about "old school wrestling story line" because I've been watching UFC and PRIDE since UFC 13 back years ago. I watched how Brandon Vera didn't bad mouth Couture like many guys would to ramp up the fight and I never was a big fan of Vera and it was cool to see that he jumped right back in after fighting not that long ago and because he got Couture he immediately jumped back into grueling training. Second, looking back on the fight and watching it again after I recorded it, yes I do think I was kind of one sided in the moment watching the fight and in all circumstances, Vera just didn't do enough to take the fight because Randy controlled the grappling game and put Vera where he wanted him. But for you to come here and pick everything I say apart shows how big of a dickk you are and it isn't necessary. Third, I'm not some WWE cross over fan who doesn't know the rules and wants to only see a "stand up and bang" fight but you WANNA BE Affliction type a s sholes that are SO OVER THE TOP and act like they know everything in the world about MMA and have the only correct opinion when it comes to MMA is just embarrassing and pathetic. Nobody here wants to be called out by some keyboard hero who thinks he knows everything. Get a life. Fourth, Vera did PLENTY in that fight to show he is legit, a force to be reckoned with and most of all, proved that fight could have easily been a win for him if he kept distance from Couture instead of letting Couture control the tempo and clinch. So if you raised your points in a better manor then being a **** then I would have said , you know what you are right man.... but all the sudden you want to jump on Randys Dickk and start bashing me because I have an opinion like everyone else here......WOW.....I bet your a BJJ Black belt to....watch out. Its funny how MMA fans have a group amongst them, that for some reason have to establish this title of, "I was here since day one, I know everything about MMA, Im better than you because I was a fan longer, Everyone else besides me is a WWE crossover fan who knows nothing and keeps crap like Kimbo around, and You give this sport a bad name but not me cuz I been a fan since the 1st ever UFC...." Shut the F uck up. It makes me sick to see so much garbage that people like you spout off. Your here to give your constructive opinion just like everyone else, When you want to get tough behind a computer monitor and try to call someone out and bash every word they say, that shows what kind of person you are. Now go on and smite me like a b itch Alex because thats what you do.... |
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Post by lancewiget on Nov 15, 2009 10:04:51 GMT -5
Seeing as I saw this live like 19 hours ago and nobody was here, I'll give my thoughts. Andre Winner - Murder KO. Roli Delgado got absolutely Hendo'd. Ross Pearson! What an impressive performance. That was perfect muay thai the entire fight, knees everywhere. Shame the fight ended due to the doctor, but wow! Ross freaking Pearson! James Wilks vs Matt Brown. So, I'd give the first to James, not much happened. Second round, wow. What a knee that was... Wilks did really well to recover but he was still almost out the entire fight. Third round, I honestly thought Brown would tap when Wilks kept stopping him from rolling over, but he got to mount and that was the end. MICHAEL F*CKING BISPING! I marked the  out when he beat Kang, and everyone on the stream (my TV broke two hours before) kept typing WOOHOO during his entrance. It was awesome. He did well to recover and last the round after getting tagged in the first, but my god he destroyed Kang in the second. DAN HARDY! OH MY GOD YES! I'm so glad he's getting GSP, but we all know he only has a puncher's chance. He rocked Swick four times in those last two rounds, while Swick did little to no damage in the first and second. Very very very very good fight. Deserved FOTN to be honest. Randy Couture vs Brandon Vera. I couldn't score this fight. I'd have preferred it be a draw than a Couture victory... it would've been less controversy and probably a lot more people would be OK with it. Couture won the first, as Vera did little to nothing and Couture controlled him in the clinch against the cage. Second round went to Vera by a country mile. Third was razor close, Vera got him with some kicks again and a takedown near the end of the round, but Couture did enough for that to be a close round. I still don't know how to score it... a draw would've been fair. Overall: WHAT A NIGHT! I'm so glad Bisping won, so glad Hardy won, so glad Pearson won. I haven't seen the Dennis Siver KO, so until I do, I still think Andre Winner should've gotten KO of the Night. To all you guys on Page 1: Wait, that was a "murder KO"? Lol. We've been all over him in this thread, but I am going to come to his defense this time. The "murder KO" and the "Bisping" posts were about 20 minutes apart. He never said that Bisping had the KO of the night. I just think he was watching live in the UK and posting as it happened. Bisping's fight was pretty good, but definitely not a KO or a "murder." I think WFRR understands that. I was talking about Andre Winner vs Roli Delgado... sorry guys. In no way, shape or form was Bisping's a KO or Murder. It was just an awesome fight. |
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Post by NYdream™ on Nov 15, 2009 10:18:04 GMT -5
In my opinion GSP will beat Hardys a$$. But if Serra can catch GSP so can Hardy because he has the same punching power Serra has. But I dont think GSP will slip up like he did in the Serra fight.
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Post by NYdream™ on Nov 15, 2009 10:23:00 GMT -5
I love couture and i know he is a legend but IMO all he did or had on vera was strength. He held him down or held him on the cage and did NO real damage. IMO it was Vera or a draw. But things happen like that sometimes. Vera still has alot of good years left in him. I hope he can let his full potential shine and become a champion like he has potential to be.. Couture for sure did damage in the 3rd round though. I think this comes down to styles make fights. Couture did all he could to work against Vera's strengths, and I think he did a not-too-bad of job with it. I'm sure if Couture faced someone different, it owuld have been a bit more exciting. I understand that. Im not saying Vera clearly won the fight because.. Yea Couture won it. I know and agree with that even though my previous statements dont say that. But He won because he controlled like 13 out of 15 minutes. But he didnt do any significant damage IMO. Vera did most or all of the damage. But Couture did what Couture does and found a gameplan to take the other fighter out of their elements. Also in no way do I think this was anything like Shogun/Machida. Thats a whole different story... |
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Nov 15, 2009 10:35:34 GMT -5
Good to know old school pro wrestling storylines still work on people these days. Why am I not surprised somebody who was swayed over by the personality of a fighter prior to the fight is all of a sudden up in arms when that particular fighter goes on to lose a decision? What does Mike Goldberg say at the beginning of every show? Fights will be judged by striking, grappling, aggression, and octagon control. Let's take a look at the facts here; - Vera did have an edge on the feet when there was reasonable distance between the two, most notably scoring a knockdown. However Randy did land a good number of shots himself and countered most of Vera's striking with well-timed clinching not to mention when he was knocked down, he quickly got into full guard and neutralized Vera. - Randy out-grappled Vera the entire fight, most notably with the clinch work, threatening and execution of takedowns, and even when he himself was taken down and mounted, quickly hipping out and getting back to a neutral position. - Randy constantly moved forward while Vera almost constantly moved backward. - Randy controlled Vera against the fence at least 75% off the duration of the fight. Explain to me where exactly in there did Randy Couture do absolutely nothing and Brandon Vera do so very much to decisively win the fight? It's a good thing we have all these ignorant, crossover WWE fans who only want to see, as Mike Goldberg would put it, "two guys stand and bang" rather than actual execution of technique and strategy. It's people like you that make this sport worse. That makes Kimbo Slice get a UFC push, that keeps Marcus Davis employed, that buries Yushin Okami, and perpetuates this notion that a fighter's ability to stand in front of another and throw reckless punches is somehow more legitimate than one who strategically defeats his opponent. You say Randy Couture couldn't stand toe to toe with Brandon and thus clinched him, however this is massively deficient for two reasons; 1. If Brandon Vera had better grappling, he would not have been stuck in the clinch. 2. You can make the argument that Brandon Vera couldn't compete in the clinch and thus threw strikes rather than pursue a grappling match. It works both ways. Not to mention while Randy did only get one takedown, he wasn't exactly giving it 100% to getting Vera on the ground with all of them. Anybody who's ever done any amount of Jiu Jitsu or grappling will tell you that it wears you out very quickly. Brandon Vera's conditioning has shown to be a little suspect recently, it makes sense for Randy Couture to have grappled him for the majority of their fight as to cause fatigue on the part of Brandon Vera. You know, strategy, right? Way to exaggerate, my friend. And yeah, Randy showed no intelligent defense when he got knocked down and almost immediately got into full guard. None at all. You mean the 10-15 seconds or so that Brandon had Couture on his back and mounted until Randy hipped out and almost immediately got to his feet? It's strange that you would say that because I almost recall you earlier saying something that completely contradicts that... ... Ah. But with that being said, why would anyone criticize one fighter and praise another for doing the exact same thing? What could possibly motivate a person to show such blatant inconsistency? ... Oh... I see... Hrm... Yeah... He does this all the time - it's kind of his thing... I think talking down to others, makes him feel better about himself. |
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Post by lancewiget on Nov 15, 2009 10:40:53 GMT -5
Yeah, that's just Alex. He's kind of an "I must be right" person.
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Post by No Brokeback on Nov 15, 2009 11:51:58 GMT -5
I enjoyed the hell out of the show, it was great fun to watch with a crowd of people..but I have to say, the person at the very top of this topic..
You seem to know what you're talking about, but you don't know how to get your point across without being a dick.
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Post by The Mac on Nov 15, 2009 13:13:17 GMT -5
wow what an awesome event live  It was my first UFC event and wont be my last! I edited my post now, I was in a hurry! |
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Post by lancewiget on Nov 15, 2009 13:32:42 GMT -5
wow what an awesome event live It was my first UFC event and wont be my first! That last line is full of win. Meant "last"... by any chance? |
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Post by Hollywood Asia on Nov 15, 2009 15:02:05 GMT -5
But for you to come here and pick everything I say apart shows how big of a dickk you are and it isn't necessary. He does this all the time - it's kind of his thing... I think talking down to others, makes him feel better about himself. You do the same nonsense in the Pro Wrestling Board except he actually put forth some type of explaination as to why he feels the way he does, you just act like you're opinions are fact, like a Douche basically. back on topic: Im Glad Randy Won if it gets him a shot at Lyoto down the line which is a match i would want to see and GSP is gonna kill whomever they send his way...which is expected lol. |
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Post by Ian from 616Entertainment. on Nov 15, 2009 15:03:49 GMT -5
wow what an awesome event live It was my first UFC event and wont be my first! That last line is full of win. Meant "last"... by any chance? He might have watched it at the bar.  I thought 105 was a good night of fights. I always have my girlfriend and whoever else wants to show up come over for the fights, and the last couple UFC's didn't cut it with the casual fans. My girlfriend and I are actual fans, where the others just "come over for the fights." Like, it's the thing to do that night. More of a social outing than an MMA event. Either way, there were no complaints last night. Everyone enjoyed the card top to bottom aside from Brown vs. Wilks, which I actually called to be a clunker before it even started. I have no faith in either one of those guys, I'm sorry. I'm a huge Randy Couture fan, and that definitely could be clouding my judgement, but Randy won the fight I was watching no doubt. It wasn't a domination by any means, but the Natural completely shut down Vera's offense (except for that thunderous body kick in the second) and had him on he cage the whole time. |
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Post by Ian from 616Entertainment. on Nov 15, 2009 15:10:19 GMT -5
Round One: 10-9 Couture
Round Two: 10-9 Vera
Round Three: 10-9 Couture
29-28 Couture was how I scored the fight, to clear up any possible arguments.
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Sandy
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Joined on: Dec 17, 2004 14:33:52 GMT -5
Posts: 5,868
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Post by Sandy on Nov 15, 2009 16:54:49 GMT -5
I have no doubt in my mind that GSP will make Hardy look like a clueless rookie. IMO it would be an even bigger upset, by a large margin in fact, than the Matt Serra loss if Dan Hardy managed to beat GSP. Yeah, for sure. However, I don't even give Dan Hardy a "Matt Serra chance" in this fight. He's got ZERO chance of beating GSP. It's just not possible in my opinion seeing how good GSP is at this point. He's literally the "Anderson Silva" of the Welterweight division and some new upstart like Dan Hardy doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of beating someone that good because he hasn't been tested to that degree yet. He hasn't been in the wars GSP has. He hasn't fought the quality of guys GSP has defeated. Dan Hardy said that Mike Swick was in over his head last night during the pre-fight smacktalk. Well, he's in WAY over his head going into the GSP fight. He has no idea what he's in for and the pressure and pace GSP will put his way. Dan Hardy should've fought some quality guys like Koscheck, Fitch, Alves and Matt Hughes before getting a shot at GSP. If he got by those guys, then my opinion would be different. But he hasn't and it will be nothing more than a complete fluke if he defeated GSP.I believe GSP will completely outclass and embarass Dan Hardy in this fight and it will be over in the 1st round. UH-OH!!!! Everyone put your money on Dan Hardy, NOW!!! Mr. Old School just jinxed GSP. that is so stupid. It would be a complete fluke if he won against GSP? I don't get how a guy who trains for months on end, and actually executes what he was trying to do to win qualifies as a fluke if he actually DOES win. That just doesn't make sense to me. I honestly think Dan Hardy should fight someone else that you listed as well, but f*** it. It is a new contender for the title. GSP cleared out the WW division. Already beat Hughes twice, Alves, Fitch, and Koscheck. Before this win the majority of mma fans were predicting Swick would win. But he got rocked in every round and Hardy controlled the tempo the entire fight. I think if Matt Serra is able to clip GSP with his short stocky frame, that a taller, stronger, and harder puncher like Dan Hardy has a chance of doing the same thing. I just hate how OVERBOARD your opinion always seems to be. I always see you mention Anderson Silva in almost everyone of your posts now. But yet you were predicting he would be KO'd by Forrest Griffin. Now your an Anderson fan? I don't get it...you're a flip-flopper. So what if....(and this is a big what if...completely hypothetical)...what if this is the beginning of a new era for the WW division and Dan Hardy completely murders GSP. Are you then going to become a Dan Hardy fan and try to completely forget about how you said he didn't have a "matt serra's chance of winning" ? |
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Bob Sapp
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 22, 2008 13:35:03 GMT -5
Posts: 3,059
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Post by Bob Sapp on Nov 15, 2009 17:04:13 GMT -5
Hahaha, Hardy won't beat GSP. GSP will take him down and embarrass him, like he does to everyone else.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
Main Eventer
Promotional consideration paid for by the following
Joined on: Jul 25, 2005 17:12:49 GMT -5
Posts: 3,209
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Nov 15, 2009 17:46:57 GMT -5
Thiago Alves had a better shot at beating GSP than Dan Hardy does, and we all saw how that worked out.
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Post by lancewiget on Nov 15, 2009 18:50:38 GMT -5
Interesting little fact...
James Wilks is the fourth Ultimate Fighter winner to lose his first fight as a contracted UFC Fighter. The other three are Joe Stevenson (lost to Josh Neer), Travis Lutter (lost to Anderson Silva) and Amir Sadollah (lost to Johny Hendricks). There have been 15 Ultimate Fighter winners.
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Post by NYdream™ on Nov 15, 2009 19:01:05 GMT -5
So far of those 4 Stevenson is the most successful too. With Joe Daddys recent string of wins IMO he could be eye'ing another title shot with another one or two impressive wins...
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Post by lancewiget on Nov 15, 2009 19:29:07 GMT -5
Amir's loss was only his 2nd pro MMA fight too. I don't get why TUF has had guys without pro MMA records. I mean, the only decent fighter to come through TUF without an MMA record was Matt Hamill.
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