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Post by slappy on May 9, 2010 15:48:33 GMT -5
What fact? It's not a fact. Faith cannot be a fact. And what is the fact that there isn't a God? I never said there wasn't one, but there isn't for fact one and there isn't for fact not one.
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 15:54:47 GMT -5
It all boils down to the fact that we as humans, are too simple-minded to understand how God can be three-in-one. Some of us (Christians) continue to follow, and have faith in Him, even though we don't fully understand. We trust his judgement and his words. Now, there are others that cannot understand, like everyone else, but instead of believing what he says, they invent something that makes it more convienient for them. That's why JW's believe Jesus isn't God, is because they cannot understand the Trinity. Since they have minds of humans, like the rest of us, they cannot comprehend things of God. They choose to create their own beliefs system, and we follow what God says. Oh, I can explain it quite well. You don't like the bible answers is all. It is not more convienant for me...WHERE in the bible does Jesus Specifically call himself a trinity, OR that he is even God. I am awaiting your answer. John 17: 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. If the Trinity is a mystery, and we cannot fully know it. It would invalidate this scripture. We CANNOT take in knowledge of a mystery. If we cannot do that, we do not have everlasting life. Right? Because this scripture says to take in knowledge. If we cannot figure out the mystery we are lost right? Also notice what is says. God SENT his son. It says nowhere that the son IS the father. The one sending is GREATER than the one being sent. You follow what God says but the Bible doesn't even SAY the word Trinity in it. The jews NEVER believed that God was a godhead made up of 3 gods...
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 15:56:23 GMT -5
Wait a minute now...Now what are you saying? First you say Jesus is God...Now that you are saying God is a trinity....Which one is it? Pick one. Your father argument holds no water I don't care enough to PM you about that question and, the bolded part? the two options are not exclusive Of course it holds water. You just choose not to want to accept it. the two options ARE exclusive. He is either a TRINITY, OR Jesus alone is God. WHICH is it? Do you even know what the trinity is? Shall I pull up the Catholic Encyclopedia's definition for you? And I and the father are one huh? How about this then...John17: 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. 22 Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. Now did the disciples suddenly merge into ONE being? Of COURSE NOT! They were one in PURPOSE...JUST like Jesus and his Father, Jehovah.
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Post by juicewinslow on May 9, 2010 16:05:37 GMT -5
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 9, 2010 16:16:56 GMT -5
It all boils down to the fact that we as humans, are too simple-minded to understand how God can be three-in-one. Some of us (Christians) continue to follow, and have faith in Him, even though we don't fully understand. We trust his judgement and his words. Now, there are others that cannot understand, like everyone else, but instead of believing what he says, they invent something that makes it more convienient for them. That's why JW's believe Jesus isn't God, is because they cannot understand the Trinity. Since they have minds of humans, like the rest of us, they cannot comprehend things of God. They choose to create their own beliefs system, and we follow what God says. Oh, I can explain it quite well. You don't like the bible answers is all. It is not more convienant for me...WHERE in the bible does Jesus Specifically call himself a trinity, OR that he is even God. I am awaiting your answer. John 17: 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. If the Trinity is a mystery, and we cannot fully know it. It would invalidate this scripture. We CANNOT take in knowledge of a mystery. If we cannot do that, we do not have everlasting life. Right? Because this scripture says to take in knowledge. If we cannot figure out the mystery we are lost right? Also notice what is says. God SENT his son. It says nowhere that the son IS the father. The one sending is GREATER than the one being sent. You follow what God says but the Bible doesn't even SAY the word Trinity in it. The jews NEVER believed that God was a godhead made up of 3 gods... It's not three seperate gods, it's one GOD in three forms. Besides, the Jews don't have anything to do with this. They wouldn't believe the trinity because they didn't believe that Christ was the Messiah. And without Christ we wouldn't have been granted the Holy Spirit. Therefore, whatever the Jews believe have no relevance to this discussion. We're talking about Jesus CHRIST. They don't even believe he was God's son.
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Post by Angel Beast on May 9, 2010 16:19:57 GMT -5
Maybe sickened isn't exactly the word I was looking for. Maybe 'pained' perhaps? The reason why I believe that is the fact that I have an awesome life in Christ. And I want other people to have that same awesome life. It just hurts me when people are missing out on something so great. That's great that following the teachings of Christ allowed you to have an awesome life, doesn't mean others would feel the same. People can still have an awesome life whether they're Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan, Wiccan, Atheist etc.
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on May 9, 2010 16:22:39 GMT -5
Maybe sickened isn't exactly the word I was looking for. Maybe 'pained' perhaps? The reason why I believe that is the fact that I have an awesome life in Christ. And I want other people to have that same awesome life. It just hurts me when people are missing out on something so great. That's great that following the teachings of Christ allowed you to have an awesome life, doesn't mean others would feel the same. People can still have an awesome life whether they're Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan, Wiccan, Atheist etc. Took the words right out of my mouth. You don't necissarily have to be following Christ to be living an awesome life. Some people think that the people bound by religion are missing out on what they believe to be something so great.
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StingerSplash
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Give em' the Scorpion Death Drop.
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Post by StingerSplash on May 9, 2010 16:23:47 GMT -5
Maybe sickened isn't exactly the word I was looking for. Maybe 'pained' perhaps? The reason why I believe that is the fact that I have an awesome life in Christ. And I want other people to have that same awesome life. It just hurts me when people are missing out on something so great. That's great that following the teachings of Christ allowed you to have an awesome life, doesn't mean others would feel the same. People can still have an awesome life whether they're Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan, Wiccan, Atheist etc. Dude, I completely agree. I'm not trying to force anything upon anyone. People have their own ways, and own beliefs, and everyone lives their lives their own way, as it should be. Sorry if I came across like I was forcing the issue.
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Post by Angel Beast on May 9, 2010 16:34:05 GMT -5
That's great that following the teachings of Christ allowed you to have an awesome life, doesn't mean others would feel the same. People can still have an awesome life whether they're Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan, Wiccan, Atheist etc. Dude, I completely agree. I'm not trying to force anything upon anyone. People have their own ways, and own beliefs, and everyone lives their lives their own way, as it should be. Sorry if I came across like I was forcing the issue. It's cool if I thought you were forcing the issue, would have appeared somewhere in one of my earlier replies.
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StingerSplash
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Give em' the Scorpion Death Drop.
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Post by StingerSplash on May 9, 2010 16:35:51 GMT -5
Dude, I completely agree. I'm not trying to force anything upon anyone. People have their own ways, and own beliefs, and everyone lives their lives their own way, as it should be. Sorry if I came across like I was forcing the issue. It's cool if I thought you were forcing the issue, would have appeared somewhere in one of my earlier replies. Haha. Alright man.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 9, 2010 16:35:51 GMT -5
Wait a minute now...Now what are you saying? First you say Jesus is God...Now that you are saying God is a trinity....Which one is it? Pick one. Your father argument holds no water I don't care enough to PM you about that question and, the bolded part? the two options are not exclusive But they are exclusive. Either God is one or he is Trinity. Trinity tries to have it both ways which is just silly. They want three separate, co-equal, co-existent persons and they also one just one person. Revelation makes it perfectly clear - when we get to Heaven, we're only going to see one throne and one sitting on it. Jesus claimed that He and his Father were One. Jesus claimed to be Jehovah more than once and the Jews tried to stone him for it. Now, either he was wrong about his claims or he wasn't. Not only is the word Trinity not mentioned in the Bible, but the doctrine isn't found there either.
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 16:46:51 GMT -5
Your father argument holds no water I don't care enough to PM you about that question and, the bolded part? the two options are not exclusive But they are exclusive. Either God is one or he is Trinity. Trinity tries to have it both ways which is just silly. They want three separate, co-equal, co-existent persons and they also one just one person. Revelation makes it perfectly clear - when we get to Heaven, we're only going to see one throne and one sitting on it. Jesus claimed that He and his Father were One. Jesus claimed to be Jehovah more than once and the Jews tried to stone him for it. Now, either he was wrong about his claims or he wasn't. Not only is the word Trinity not mentioned in the Bible, but the doctrine isn't found there either. No. That is not what Jesus said...John 10:31 Once more the Jews lifted up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to YOU many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are YOU stoning me?” 33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “YOU are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, 36 do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son? He said he is GOD'S SON. Not God himself. Read the verse. It doesn't matter what the jews thought. It is what Jesus said that counts. As far as Revelation goes...What verse are you talking about?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2010 16:56:55 GMT -5
I don't really have a specific religion, just my own beliefs. I believe in a higher power, but I don't know if its God or not. Just a creator. And I believe in reincarnation. But I'm not ruling out heaven or hell.
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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 9, 2010 17:02:06 GMT -5
Your father argument holds no water I don't care enough to PM you about that question and, the bolded part? the two options are not exclusive But they are exclusive. Either God is one or he is Trinity. Trinity tries to have it both ways which is just silly. They want three separate, co-equal, co-existent persons and they also one just one person. Revelation makes it perfectly clear - when we get to Heaven, we're only going to see one throne and one sitting on it. Jesus claimed that He and his Father were One. Jesus claimed to be Jehovah more than once and the Jews tried to stone him for it. Now, either he was wrong about his claims or he wasn't. Not only is the word Trinity not mentioned in the Bible, but the doctrine isn't found there either. We can argue all day...fact of the matter is, through my study of the scriptures, as well as much research into multiple interpretations, as well as what tons of church fathers and people much smarter than me have said, and i believe that God is a trinity....He is one, He is 3... You may say i'm wrong, thats fine, but so are the majority of all Christians
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Post by juicewinslow on May 9, 2010 17:02:25 GMT -5
I've considered joining a church, but know nothing about religion. Like I said before, I do believe in a higher power. I just don't know which higher power I believe in.
Where do I start? What do you suggest?
I desperately need a change in my life.
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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 9, 2010 17:07:03 GMT -5
I've considered joining a church, but know nothing about religion. Like I said before, I do believe in a higher power. I just don't know which higher power I believe in. Where do I start? What do you suggest? I desperately need a change in my life. I'd talk to people you have an actual relationship with (not a bunch of nuts on a figure forum) who believe in different things. See what they have to say visit different places of worship...when you visit a protastant church, be sure to see a contemporary service as well as a traditional...i'd even go to an emerging one Check out a Catholic mass read some of the teachings of each faith, see what resonates with you I would be willing to send you some stuff to read on Christianity if you were interested, feel free to PM me, I'll send you what I tell the youth at my church who are in similar points in thier life as you. or not, its ok with me, i'm just offering
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 9, 2010 17:12:37 GMT -5
As far as Revelation goes...What verse are you talking about? Revelation 4:2 - And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it (NLT, emphasis mine) If you read further in the chapter, you find various beings worshipping the one on the throne and the twenty four elders mentioned here refer to him as the Almighty. We can argue all day...fact of the matter is, through my study of the scriptures, as well as much research into multiple interpretations, as well as what tons of church fathers and people much smarter than me have said, and i believe that God is a trinity....He is one, He is 3... You may say i'm wrong, thats fine, but so are the majority of all Christians I've studied the Bible as well and I'm sorry, but you and the majority of Christians are incorrect. You don't find a hint of the trinity in the Old Testament and even John Calvin acknowledged that. The disciples in Acts always baptized in Jesus name and consistently taught that God is indeed one.
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Post by Affliction: Elite Trader on May 9, 2010 17:15:08 GMT -5
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 17:16:41 GMT -5
I've considered joining a church, but know nothing about religion. Like I said before, I do believe in a higher power. I just don't know which higher power I believe in. Where do I start? What do you suggest? I desperately need a change in my life. I would suggest NOT doing what feels good or comfortable. Romans 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge; Many people might have a ZEAL for God. But if it isn't how God commands himself to be worshipped, it is in vain. We may like a certain religion because they serve Cake on Sundays or whatever. That doesn't make it approved in the eyes of God. Read what Jesus said about two roads. One leads to death, the other to life. All of the religions cannot be right based on that text. I wasn't always a witness. What I did was this. I made a list of what the bible says is wrong. If a religion promoted one of those things, I crossed it off my list as being a false religion. Like war for instance. If a religion advocates going to war we know it is wrong. 1 John 4:20 If anyone makes the statement: “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen The religion MAY say and try to advocate war by sly words. But what does the verse above tell you? Use your reasoning skills and you'll be fine.
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 17:18:28 GMT -5
As far as Revelation goes...What verse are you talking about? Revelation 4:2 - And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it (NLT, emphasis mine) If you read further in the chapter, you find various beings worshipping the one on the throne and the twenty four elders mentioned here refer to him as the Almighty. We can argue all day...fact of the matter is, through my study of the scriptures, as well as much research into multiple interpretations, as well as what tons of church fathers and people much smarter than me have said, and i believe that God is a trinity....He is one, He is 3... You may say i'm wrong, thats fine, but so are the majority of all Christians I've studied the Bible as well and I'm sorry, but you and the majority of Christians are incorrect. You don't find a hint of the trinity in the Old Testament and even John Calvin acknowledged that. The disciples in Acts always baptized in Jesus name and consistently taught that God is indeed one. I totally agree with the revelation verse. Someone is the Almighty. It isn't Jesus though. Jesus actually had a beginning. God is eternal. I do not believe in the Trinity either. Therefore we agree.
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