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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Oct 13, 2010 0:05:57 GMT -5
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate, not equally important groups -- the police who investigate crime, and Hulk Hogan who prosecutes the offenders. These are their stories brother! That brought a true LOL from me. Nice.  |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Oct 25, 2010 11:42:20 GMT -5
whatever Hulk was drawing $$$ in the AWA long before Vince Jr got a hold of him. Vince was just smart enough to put the whole Hulkamania thing on fast track
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Oct 26, 2010 4:39:51 GMT -5
whatever Hulk was drawing $$$ in the AWA long before Vince Jr got a hold of him. Vince was just smart enough to put the whole Hulkamania thing on fast track That's what I meant. Hogan, Nash and Hall were all guys who had moderate success in the biz but they became household names because of the way Vince packaged and promoted them. No Vince, No NWO. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Oct 29, 2010 15:21:37 GMT -5
Hall and Nash were definitely packaged by Vince ie Razor and Diesel but Hogan packaged by Vince?? He was simply promoting and fast tracking what Hogan was already doing in the AWA. Some goes for Ventura, Wonderful, Piper, Valentine when the went to WWF Vince simply fast tracked what they were already doing. Hulk was AWA biggest star he was selling out everywhere they went.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Oct 30, 2010 0:20:21 GMT -5
Hall and Nash were definitely packaged by Vince ie Razor and Diesel but Hogan packaged by Vince?? He was simply promoting and fast tracking what Hogan was already doing in the AWA. Some goes for Ventura, Wonderful, Piper, Valentine when the went to WWF Vince simply fast tracked what they were already doing. Hulk was AWA biggest star he was selling out everywhere they went. Yes, Hulk was packaged by Vince. Had Hulk not gone to the WWF, he would have fizzled out with the small, vulnerable AWA. Vince gave him "Hulkamania", which included the colors, music, catch phrases, mannerisms, and (most importantly) the mainstream media appearances to build on his minor exposure in Rocky 3. Hulk wouldn't have gotten those in the AWA or NWA or Japan. I remember Hulk prior to his rebirth in the WWF. He had an imposing physique, no doubt, but beyond that he was just another scowling bodybuilder. Vince made his character, which is the only reason that Hulk became so popular. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Oct 30, 2010 1:47:16 GMT -5
The whole "Hulkamania" catch phrase was coined in the AWA not by Vince Jr! And all of Hogan mannerisms the whole Hulk Up and tearing his shirt off he was doing in AWA as well. I guess you are into marginalizing Hogan for whatever reason. I guess objectivity isn't your strong suit either I mean I cant stand Tom Brady but do I respect his accomplishments in the NFL? You better believe it. And you think AWA was such a small outfit but really WWF was pretty much a regional promotion in the early 80s as well.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Oct 31, 2010 3:50:01 GMT -5
The whole "Hulkamania" catch phrase was coined in the AWA not by Vince Jr! And all of Hogan mannerisms the whole Hulk Up and tearing his shirt off he was doing in AWA as well. I guess you are into marginalizing Hogan for whatever reason. I guess objectivity isn't your strong suit either I mean I cant stand Tom Brady but do I respect his accomplishments in the NFL? You better believe it. And you think AWA was such a small outfit but really WWF was pretty much a regional promotion in the early 80s as well. No, I don't like Hogan. I freely admit that. His interviews were repetitive and his in-ring work got worse as his career wore on. Plus, I blame Bollea, along with Bischoff and Turner, for WCW's demise. So, I also admit that Hulk's real-life shortcomings affect the way I view his character, which is rare for me. However, I still feel that I'm perfectly objective in saying that he was a creation of McMahon. The same can be said for Undertaker, Austin, Foley, Warrior, and even my favorite, HBK. These guys all had some success in other feds but they didn't become mega-drawing, household names until they were with WWE. Hulk was never the AWA's centerpiece. Verne Gagne has gone on record saying that Hogan didn't need the belt. Hogan wouldn't have been pushed, had much-needed character elements added, and had T-shirts put in on every wrestling-loving 80s kid had he stayed with the AWA. Vince McMahon was responsible for Hogan's success. He was also responsible for the 80s wrestling boom and the 90s wrestling boom. He is quite possibly the most important person in wrestling history, even with the malaise of the 2000s taken into account. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Nov 2, 2010 1:08:03 GMT -5
Doesn't matter if Hogan was AWA centerpiece he was still their biggest star. You also say Hulk was just a bodybuilder created by Vince Jr lol by your logic Lex Luger should have soared to super stardom based on that huge push Vince Jr gave him or the Warrior should have topped Hogan draw but that never happen either seeing how as you say Vince could just take any bodybuilder and make them the biggest star in the world which just isn't true. It takes two and yes Vince is a brilliant promoter no doubt but the talent in my view is my important.
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sevb30
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 14, 2008 12:55:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,378
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Post by sevb30 on Nov 9, 2010 20:00:25 GMT -5
It is Vince to whom we owe a debt, not Hogan.[/quote]
No, I'd say it's both.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Nov 11, 2010 4:40:17 GMT -5
It is Vince to whom we owe a debt, not Hogan. No, I'd say it's both.[/quote] I often compare Vince to Eddie Debartolo and Hogan to Joe Montana. Montana is one of the most-well known QBs in NFL history and often gets cited at the lynchpin of the 49ers' dynasty. Yet it was Debartolo who hired Bill Walsh, who then hired great assisstants to get the most out of Montana and the talent around him. Debartolo was able to keep winning for many years his star QB moved on. He created a culture of success. Since his departure, the 49ers have plummeted into irrelevance. Even with all of the talent Vince McMahon had, he is still the cornerstone of modern American wrestling. Not only did his vision of uniting territories bring wrestling into the mainstream, he kept the WWE chugging along after Hogan was gone. Had Vince decided to call it quits after Hogan left the WWF, there would be little or no wrestling on TV today. Had he decided to fold the WWF in '92, there would have been no Diesel or Razor for the NWO angle and WCW, struggling throughout early and mid '90s even with Hogan, would have died sooner. With no WCW and no WWF to go back to as he did in '02, Hulk would have had no where to go except Japan. Wrestling in the United States would be on life support or completely dead. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Nov 12, 2010 16:32:02 GMT -5
the thing with Hulk is everywhere he went he became a top star AWA, WWF, WCW, Japan. I mean how many stars could lead not one but two major promotions to the top? He overshadowed Austin and Rock in 2002, He overshadowed HBK, Cena in 2005. How many stars can keep themselves in the spotlight after so many years? Love him or hate him Hogan had some mojo going. Hulk proved he could be successful without Vince.
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Dibiase # 1 Heel
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Joined on: Nov 3, 2010 14:04:31 GMT -5
Posts: 293
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Post by Dibiase # 1 Heel on Nov 12, 2010 23:30:54 GMT -5
And thats why they dont ask wrestlers to do moves on tv shows anymore
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Post by carly1988 on Nov 28, 2010 3:37:57 GMT -5
I was sitting here watching Wrestlemania VI and Hogan locks Warrior in a front face lock. Monsoon says something about how painful that hold is and Ventura chimes in "Yea just ask Richard Belzer"
LOL all this time, this is the first I heard that
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Nov 28, 2010 4:32:09 GMT -5
the thing with Hulk is everywhere he went he became a top star AWA, WWF, WCW, Japan. I mean how many stars could lead not one but two major promotions to the top? He overshadowed Austin and Rock in 2002, He overshadowed HBK, Cena in 2005. How many stars can keep themselves in the spotlight after so many years? Love him or hate him Hogan had some mojo going. Hulk proved he could be successful without Vince. Hulk was successful, to a lesser degree, without Vince. Several guys have accomplished that but I can't think of one main eventer who went somewhere else to wrestle who got bigger after they left WWE. That includes Hulk. WCW's PPV buys between '94 and the formation of the NWO are proof that Hogan had lost some of his drawing power by the mid '90s. Moreover, I don't think Hulk overshadowed any of those guys. He got fan support in always-contrary Canada at WM but all of the guys you named were in their prime the early 2000s. Hulk was very obviously hurting and needed to be carried through most of his return bouts and feuds. When nearly-bald, droopy-skinned Hulk pinned Rock on RAW in that 3 on 2 match, there was an entire generation of new fans who saw Hulk's finisher and went "What the (BLEEP!)?" |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Nov 28, 2010 4:33:07 GMT -5
I was sitting here watching Wrestlemania VI and Hogan locks Warrior in a front face lock. Monsoon says something about how painful that hold is and Ventura chimes in "Yea just ask Richard Belzer" LOL all this time, this is the first I heard that On the earliest VHS releases of WM6, that line was edited out. |
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Post by carly1988 on Nov 28, 2010 23:24:07 GMT -5
I was sitting here watching Wrestlemania VI and Hogan locks Warrior in a front face lock. Monsoon says something about how painful that hold is and Ventura chimes in "Yea just ask Richard Belzer" LOL all this time, this is the first I heard that On the earliest VHS releases of WM6, that line was edited out. Ive got a Coliseum Home Video release of that. Ill have to check it out haha |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Dec 1, 2010 2:17:42 GMT -5
the thing with Hulk is everywhere he went he became a top star AWA, WWF, WCW, Japan. I mean how many stars could lead not one but two major promotions to the top? He overshadowed Austin and Rock in 2002, He overshadowed HBK, Cena in 2005. How many stars can keep themselves in the spotlight after so many years? Love him or hate him Hogan had some mojo going. Hulk proved he could be successful without Vince. Hulk was successful, to a lesser degree, without Vince. Several guys have accomplished that but I can't think of one main eventer who went somewhere else to wrestle who got bigger after they left WWE. That includes Hulk. WCW's PPV buys between '94 and the formation of the NWO are proof that Hogan had lost some of his drawing power by the mid '90s. Moreover, I don't think Hulk overshadowed any of those guys. He got fan support in always-contrary Canada at WM but all of the guys you named were in their prime the early 2000s. Hulk was very obviously hurting and needed to be carried through most of his return bouts and feuds. When nearly-bald, droopy-skinned Hulk pinned Rock on RAW in that 3 on 2 match, there was an entire generation of new fans who saw Hulk's finisher and went "What the (BLEEP!)?" the 2002 run was amazing for Hulk the fact that Vince put the belt on him speaks volumes, so was the 2005 run I went to a RAW in Dallas where Hulk and Mean Gene appeared it was a sea of hulkamania t-shirts in the stands the merch stands were selling out of Hulk items. Check out the numbers for PPV buys that shows Hulk impact on the shows Summerslam 2004: 415,000 Summerslam 2005: 650,000 No Way Out 2002: 575,000 (nWo debut) No Way Out 2003: 450,000 (Hulk vs Rock) No Way Out 2004: 265,000 No Way Out 2005 240,000 Backlash 2004: 295,000 Backlash 2005 320,000 Backlash 2006 220,000 now are you going to continue to argue Hulk Hogans impact and ability to overshadow stars? not saying Hulk is solely responsible but clear to see he had a huge impact which shows why Vince who you consider a "genius" kept calling Hogan back. |
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Post by carly1988 on Dec 1, 2010 7:57:25 GMT -5
When Hulk returned in 2002, I wouldnt say he overshadowed anyone. If anything it was just a nostalgic feeling that ended very quickly. If you take Hogan off of the Wrestlemania cards, the shows were still going to sell very very well. You take Austin, Rock and Triple H off those same cards and Mania flops. Everybody loved seeing the red and yellow and Hogan in the WWE again but when Vince put the title on him everyone took a step back and went "huh?" and then it ended quickly. It wasnt "believable" that a 154yo Hulk Hogan could be World Champion. Everybody keeps sayin "Oh he gave Brock the rub"....No, Rock and Undertaker gave Brock the rub.
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Dec 2, 2010 16:31:22 GMT -5
oh really Austin and Rock ah? Ratings were sinking like the titanic with those two in 2001 you ever hear the term whats old is new again?? That describes Hogan in WWF 2002 people were sick of the Rock he was being booed I remember when he came back after doing the Scorpion King people were booing him and please don't bring Hunter in this discussion he is no where in any way shape or form the kind of draw Hogan, Austin and The Rock were
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 3, 2010 14:30:57 GMT -5
the 2002 run was amazing for Hulk the fact that Vince put the belt on him speaks volumes, so was the 2005 run I went to a RAW in Dallas where Hulk and Mean Gene appeared it was a sea of hulkamania t-shirts in the stands the merch stands were selling out of Hulk items. Check out the numbers for PPV buys that shows Hulk impact on the shows Summerslam 2004: 415,000 Summerslam 2005: 650,000 No Way Out 2002: 575,000 (nWo debut) No Way Out 2003: 450,000 (Hulk vs Rock) No Way Out 2004: 265,000 No Way Out 2005 240,000 Backlash 2004: 295,000 Backlash 2005 320,000 Backlash 2006 220,000 now are you going to continue to argue Hulk Hogans impact and ability to overshadow stars? not saying Hulk is solely responsible but clear to see he had a huge impact which shows why Vince who you consider a "genius" kept calling Hogan back. Indeed I am. No Way Out from '03 to '04 is WWE's fate in a nutshell. The '03 show featured the biggest stars in wrestling at the time, Rock and Austin. The '04 show didn't and the buyrates fell. A large segment of fans didn't accept Cena and Batista as the company's #1 and #2 guys as replacements for the Rattlesnake and the People's Champ. Thus, the company's buyrates have continued to plummet. Hogan had drawing power to rival anyone in the 80s but by '02, he had lost part of his luster. That is why the 5 biggest PPV's in WWF history only feature one main evented by Hogan (and technically HHH vs Y2J was the real ME) but feature 2 appearances by Austin and 4 by Rock: 1. WWE WrestleMania 17 - 950,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin 2. WWE WrestleMania 18 - 840,000 buys - The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan 3. WWE WrestleMania 20 - 825,000 buys - Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels 4. WWE WrestleMania 16 - 824,000 buys - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. Mick Foley 5. WWE WrestleMania 15 - 800,000 buys - The Rock vs. Steve Austin And SummerSlam 2005 can be attributed to HBK briefly going back to his legendary heelish self and bringing the heat. When Hogan worked a program with Orton the following year at SummerSlam, the buys dropped by over 120,000. |
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