christianedge
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Joined on: Dec 22, 2009 21:47:07 GMT -5
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Post by christianedge on Feb 6, 2011 0:31:28 GMT -5
^ Corey Brewer n Wilson Chandler are nice pieces for Denver. More mins for Wes Johnson is good for Minnesota. Knicks get a star.
If the trade happens before the all-star game, does Melo switch over or ineligible for the game?
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 6, 2011 0:38:16 GMT -5
^ Corey Brewer n Wilson Chandler are nice pieces for Denver. More mins for Wes Johnson is good for Minnesota. Knicks get a star. If the trade happens before the all-star game, does Melo switch over or ineligible for the game? Denver gets ing hosed in that deal. Absolutely ing hosed. Chandler will walk after the year and Brewer kinda sucks, and what a lottery protected #1? I call bullshit, that deal is arguably the worst of all the offers so far.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 6, 2011 1:47:51 GMT -5
Like I said in September, the longer this goes on the more Denver's hands are tied.
Getting a 1st rounder from one of the worst teams in the league and getting Wilson Chandler's restricted Free Agent rights in exchange for a guy that doesn't want to play for you isn't getting hosed... it's reality. Denver doesn't have a lot of leverage here. Let him walk or trade him; the Knicks are the only team he'll extend for.
Do you suggest Portland offers Aldridge, the Clippers offer Blake Griffin, the Lakers offer Bynum and Odom or Boston offers Rondo?
It's not gonna happen, he's a 3 month rent a player to everybody else.
Denver should be grateful they are getting one of the best draft picks in the league and the flexibility of Chandler's restricted Free Agency. It gives them options to start to rebuild.
Getting a Franchise player and/or multiple first round picks in return for a guy who won't sign your extension is just not reasonable.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 6, 2011 1:57:51 GMT -5
Derrick Favors is better than anyone in this proposed deal, not to mention its severely lopsided for Minnesota? They get 2 valuable assets for a #1 pick (Which is going to be lottery protected), there is no way the Nuggets will get the #1 pick without any restrictions....none.....and for Corey Brewer who sucks.
No one said a franchise player, but 2 6th men, who will both walk at the end of the year and a draft pick in the teens? That's the worst possible deal I have heard for the Nuggets
Wilson Chanlder is a rent a player, who isnt even that good, the Nuggets can do better. Deal him to Houston or Dallas, even as a rental and get more than Wilson Chandler and a pick in the teens.
The deal wont happen anyways, a lot of it does not make sense. Only way it makes sense...no restrictions on the pick and Brewer/Chandler are just salary cap fodder. But this draft is terrible, absolutely terrible anywasys
Still 3 weeks til the deadline, nothing is gonna happen any time soon
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Post by user9327 on Feb 6, 2011 2:04:26 GMT -5
I'm not saying I agree or disagree that it will or won't happen because honestly I don't think this gets it done either. Meaning the grounds for this deal we hear tonight.
But Favors has been a disappointment this year completely and Cousins looks better right now.
Chandler is a real starter in this league, not sure why you think he's a 6th man.
The stuff you speculate on about the 1st round pick is just your speculation but yea I agree there is a chance it may be protected but maybe not. Maybe you answered your own question when you pointed out that Minnesota is getting 2 assets for the pick.
I think on paper it looks good for all all sides. Denver makes out better than Minnesota did when they traded Garnett. A chance to sign a market protected Chandler or gain his cap relief, gain cap relief from Melo going and get a 1st round pick from the crappy Wolves.
Maybe NJ shouldn't have talked so much.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 6, 2011 2:10:45 GMT -5
Oh and btw Denver is not going to deal a 3 month rent a player for "somebody better than Wilson Chandler" and a "pick in the teen's"
not unless Mark Cuban has a lot of strings to pull and is insane
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Post by Quanthor on Feb 6, 2011 4:25:30 GMT -5
Lottery protected? Like how high? It's the freaking Wolves, they'll be one of the worst teams in the league for the next 6 years at least, especially with that ownership. I don't see how they give up a 1st round pick (you know it's gonna be high) for Randolph and Curry. They bungle every chance to improve that club it's ridiculous. They'd rather have that than improve their club with a draft selection? Randolph is a is a low end first round, high second round at best and Curry's expiring deal isn't going to take more money off the books because they're not trading away any contracts( I think it might actaully add to the books) Unless they flip that for something I just don't get how that will help their club more than the pick.
Speaking of Cousins, I saw that guy lead a break with a bounce pass like he was freaking John Stockton. If he wasn't such a big dummy I'd that guy has a pretty bright future.
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christianedge
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Joined on: Dec 22, 2009 21:47:07 GMT -5
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Post by christianedge on Feb 6, 2011 5:07:44 GMT -5
Do you guys think Melo is going to NY this year? Or will there be a team that will gamble and trade for him? Denver wanted Batum from Portland. He's expendable with Wes Matthews Playing pretty well.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 6, 2011 10:14:53 GMT -5
Derrick Favors has played 40 games with trade rumors swirling around him, you dont get written off after 40 games. He is going to be a superstar, much bigger and better than 3 months of Wilson Chandler and Corey Brewer.
I am sure some form of this deal will happen, but its absolutely terrible for the Nuggets.
The Nets deal offered the best player available, 3 picks and cap space.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 6, 2011 20:12:17 GMT -5
There never was a realistic Favors trade though. I still don't understand why you think it's so relevant? It was heavily rumored but it was never even close or relevant as reported.
Carmelo never was extending in NJ and if they traded Favors for a rent a player, NJ would have been EVEN MORE stupid as you are saying Denver is now for only getting Chandler and Brewer. That's also literally worse than the Wolves trading a pick for these guys. At least the Wolves know they have them under contract next season.
Seriously? Trading Favors for a guy who won't sign a contract with you? That's crazy. That makes the Wolves look conservative.
I mean, youre the one speaking so highly of Favors, so why on earth would you trade him for a rent a player?!! You'd really do that? But you scuff at the Wolves for getting a 20 year old who's under contract for a few years and cap relief for their pick? That doesn't make much sense.
The Nets also pretentiously ran their mouths for MONTHS and were unprofessional. They didn't even care about their own players during this. They never were getting an extension but talked all this crap, affecting their own team, the Knicks and the Nuggets. It's ridiculous, Chandler hasn't played the same in over a month, if he even plays (hasn't in a week).
Do you hear the Knicks whining? No. But you see the Nets owner at a press conference apologizing to everyone in site and already admitting his mistakes.
Denver was also stubborn about a guy who openly told them the truth before the season was even a month away. Now, they can enjoy Corey Brewer. Because had this trade went down in September, to the Knicks or even elsewhere as a rent a player, they could have gotten more.
No, I don't feel bad for anyone involved and Denver is lucky they aren't dealing with Mark Cuban right now.
NJ is lucky they didn't do more damage to their organizations credibility than they did. But after all this, it's hard to picture them ever landing a superstar now.
Ditto on Denver. He gave you 7 years and another year's notice and you turn down every chance to get the best trade for him until 2 weeks before the all star break.
The truth is, considering Carmelo wanted out; he did the right thing.
I've been saying since September, the longer it goes the worse it is going to be for Denver.
But, nobody ever listens to me. I've had to call bogus on 2 trades and take this stance from day 1. And I'm still telling you I don't know if this Knicks trade is bogus or not. But the clock, and reality, are ticking... and something is better than nothing.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 6, 2011 21:39:52 GMT -5
I am just saying, for the players being bandied about Favors was the best, better than the scrubs the Nuggets are about to get. I am not saying Favors was a rental trade part, but he was part of the trade that the Nuggets could get, an even the picks the Nets could have offered would be better than what the Nuggets are getting right now. More cap space too.
I also think Melo has handled this absolutely poorly. He has not said anything definitive from the beginning. Why would the Nets owners and others go so far? Obviously Melo never said anything definitive. Especially with reporters saying he'd meet with the Nets. He hasnt even come out and said he wants out!!! He cant say it in the media, but when the Nuggets still have an offer on the table for him, makes you think he hasnt said the truth yet has he?
How did the Nets run their mouths? They didnt announce who was being talked about in trades and all that, supposedly the leaks came from Denver at times too. How is that the Nets fault? Its not the Nets fault or the Nuggets or the Knicks if rumors get out and affects players, its the way of the world...it happens ALL THE TIME.
If the Nuggets get a lottery protected pick and 2 guys who are 6th men (Yes Chandler will be, or he will be a rent a player) for Melo, they will get demolished.
Again, I say, you do not know what Melo will do or wont do. You are not La La or his agent. So I dont think the gloating when a trade rumor falls down, 99% of them do not go through and this one hasnt happened yet but you do not know what has gone on during the process.
I still dont think this deal even makes sense for the Wolves, so theres 0% chance this deal goes through in teh current form.
The Wolves might get the #1 or 2 pick in the draft, but they'd rather Anthony Randolph instead? Or cap space when they can just wait 4 months for it?
That does not make sense.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 6, 2011 22:03:07 GMT -5
Yeaaaa once again:
1. The Nets wanted melo to extend before trading favors so once again this trade with picks u keep talking about isn't even a reality. It was never close, Melo wouldn't extend. The Nets pulled out claiming "they reached out" to him and think he doesn't want to be a Net.
I don't know how much more clearly to put it?
2. Melo has said he will not be extending with Denver and his agent says only with the Knicks so yes he has said something definitive that's WHY they are trying to trade him in the first place. That's pretty cut and dry though.
As for Melo handling this poorly, what do you suggest he do? It's Denver's job to run the team and make trades, he's given his input when asked. What more should he do? Take an extension with NJ when he doesn't want to?
3. You lost me after the part about claiming the Nets didn't talk to much pubically... the Nuggets owner called them out about it ok. The Nets owner pubically apologized for it, alright?
Just saying that is a whole lot to read, you aren't accepting of the facts from my previous post and we're going in circles.
It seems Carmelo wants to leave Denver and play for New York. Big deal, he's not a convict for it. That team is cap strapped and not a contender.
You can thank KG for this, loading up in Boston. It caused LeBron to create a super team. Now Carmelo.
KG skipped town and you couldn't have cared less that Chicago had the FAR better trade and that Minnesota at this point has absolutely nothing to show for it but cap space that signed Darko Milicic. I mean, do any of those guys still play for the Wolves?
You never sat there and ridiculed the Wolves for not taking the better Bulls trade. You just said KG is a great dude. Now you claim Melo is bad and this trade is a tragedy.
Blame KG, he wanted to force trades and start super teams.
But seriously until you can accept that the Favors trade never had a chance without Melo wanting to extend in NJ, this is just gonna go in circles. We'll just get stuck in that over and over and you already know how I feel about this trade from previous posts.
Other than that, I hope if there is a trade that each team is better off than they are right now.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 6, 2011 22:08:29 GMT -5
Oh and Wilson Chandler is a 6th man but Derrick Favors is DEFINITELY going to be a superstar?
I don't agree or disagree because I definitely can't predict the future.
But Favors has looked pretty lackluster so far. Has he even had a double double yet? In theory, per minutes, he hasn't even out played Anthony Randolph. Not that I am equating the two, but it does tell a bit about Favors this season.
Cousins is dropping high 20's and 10 often.
To claim that Favors right now is anything short of a letdown or behind his potential currently is just fluffing him up.
He's been outplayed by Kris Humphries. Definitively.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 6, 2011 22:34:27 GMT -5
Favors has played 40 games, on a terrible team, with trade talk surrounding him. He is 20 years old and signed for 4 more years. He's also averaging 19 minutes a game.
Chandler is 24, a free agent after this year, who puts up good numbers, but again hes 4 years older than Favors and gone after the year.
Theres a huge difference for a team to build around.
Not to mention, Cousins is averaging 13 and 7, dont know where the 20/10s are though, but he is playing 8 more minutes a game too than Favors.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 6, 2011 23:12:55 GMT -5
Look at Cousins game log and then you'll know where his 20 and 10's are. Just follow his recent play in the last 2 months, he's gone off for a rookie in a lot of games.
You can keep bringing up Favors but it's all irrelevant and nothing but a distraction from the truth:
There is no Favors trade, there never was. It was apparently contingent on Melo extending with NJ. Which isn't happening, according to his agent and the Nets a few weeks ago.
Favors isn't a factor in this. The Nets pulled out. Why do you think he's still being offered? He's not.
If we wake up tomorrow and the Nets are back at it then they changed their last stance. Which was pulling out. No offer on the table.
I've had to explain this about 4 different ways now with you ignoring that much of it.
Now I feel like you're just going in circles to be stubborn.
I'm sorry, but I'm sticking with my same prediction from September. It's been completely spot on up until now. When people had him penciled on as a Net, I was claiming deadline time, to the Knicks with extension after Denver takes less than people thought... or rent a player at the deadline to somebody like Dallas.
But even then, WTF does Dallas have to offer? Dirk is their Franchise, Butler is hurt, Marion is garbage, Kidd is on Medicare and the rest of the team is either too important of a role (T. Chandler) or too capped up to trade for a rental.
Melo has turned down over 60 million and the deadline is this close. My gut feeling thinks he's a Knick at the end of all this (FA if need be). But I could be wrong.
If they can get him without losing Fields and Danilo, I think the Knicks can compete for a championship next season. This season they could try but it's gonna be without chemistry.
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Post by Quanthor on Feb 7, 2011 15:54:48 GMT -5
I'm going to see da Bulls tonight. Boozer usually burns the Blazers so I don't expect Portland to take this one.
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Nash
Main Eventer
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Post by Nash on Feb 7, 2011 16:13:14 GMT -5
Wow yeah the reserves are ed up, on both sides on many levels.. No way Gasol or Duncan deserve those spots. Thats just name power right there. Love and Odom deserve these two spots much much more. I'd even throw in Parker over either of them. Granted Love will probably take Yao's spot on the team, but still, those three deserved it much more than Duncan or Gasol. And the east is even more messed up imo. The entire bench is the Celts/Hawks/Bosh lol. Rondo is an obvious yes, Garnett and Bosh are some what border line if you ask me, but I guess they would get the nod. Horford and Johnson could be debated, but its tolerable. But, I'm sorry Allen and Pierce don't deserve their spots. Honestly that really is name power, and I'm not being bias or anything, but their numbers haven't been anything really spectacular to earn those spots. Now this isn't total homerism, but I thought that atleast Boozer OR Deng deserved to make the team. I understand Boozer has missed some time, but this just gives the idea that Rose is the whole team, which simply is not true. Deng has come up big for us, and Boozer currently averages a double-double. I even thought Felton deserved it more than who actually got picked. So its not total fanboy on my part...these players just deserved it more if you ask me. the only one I question is Allen but if you put Felton on the team there's 3 point guards and that's nuts. Rondo deserves it, so does KG and Pierce... Pierce has hit some big shots and the Celtics are still Conference Champions. Ehh its just an all star game so who really cares how many of a certain position make it. It should be the player that deserves it most. They shouldnt be slighted because they play a certain position. Unfortunate truth. Unless he fills an injury. KG get hurt! Your team is a disaster right now and I am glad, but wishing someone get hurts. Seriously? Ray Allen is having a good year, but Doc Rivers wanted him on as a "respect" to him for what he has done etc...same with Duncan. Are there more deserving players? Sure. But is it a total outrage and they shouldnt even be there? No way. Its also 100% homerism when you say "Im sorry its not homerism" then list 2 players on your OWN team" Teams like the Celtics and Spurs, you have to look at the record, you have to look at the player obviously. Sure on a worse team Pierce puts up insane #'s but its not about numbers, teams who have been winning should be rewarded with All Star spots ala Duncan and Allen. KG and Pierce 100000000000000% deserved it, not really gonna hear any arguments from anyone on that really. I didnt say Deng and Boozer. I said or, meaning one or the other. Yeah but being an all star is an individual honor. I'm not saying a bottom feeder team should have an all star, but the players I listed for alternatives arent on a bottom feeder team...their 3rd in the east. If thats how you feel about Garnett and Pierce, thats fine, i just dont think the same way with that. Like I said, I just don't like notion that Rose is the whole team or anything, cause thats way off. Oh and that Melo deal is easily the worst thats been reported so far...not even close.
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Post by MC2 on Feb 7, 2011 22:49:58 GMT -5
Anyone know when the Melo deal should go down, if it does? Being a Knick fan, I wouldn't mind losing those 3, it's basically Chandler for Melo.
When is the trade deadline? Because I think it will be done by then, because it would be in Denver's best interest to at least get someone for Melo then have him walk for nothing.
Also, when Melo comes to NY, what number will he wear? 15 is a retired number in NY.
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Post by Quanthor on Feb 8, 2011 1:40:41 GMT -5
New career high for Aldridge - 42.
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Post by user9327 on Feb 8, 2011 6:16:15 GMT -5
New career high for Aldridge - 42. He's been a beast lately, man. I know I say this all the time and have for about a year now but I really like his potential to be the next best Power Forward in the NBA. Anyone know when the Melo deal should go down, if it does? Being a Knick fan, I wouldn't mind losing those 3, it's basically Chandler for Melo. When is the trade deadline? Because I think it will be done by then, because it would be in Denver's best interest to at least get someone for Melo then have him walk for nothing. Also, when Melo comes to NY, what number will he wear? 15 is a retired number in NY. Who knows with the trade game, but this one does seem like it could unfold with what has been mentioned recently as a starting point. I heard rumors that Melo was a big Bernard King fan. So maybe #30 will be it. I think #7 or #13 would be cool.
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