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Post by Oskanowski on Dec 28, 2010 19:52:23 GMT -5
Stan Lee Superhumans anyone?
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Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
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Post by Revvie® on Dec 28, 2010 19:58:06 GMT -5
again hulk you miss it.
All I said was its not a fact...it might be a "scientific truth" in terms as true as science can confirm things....BUT you said it yourself...science cannot test things that are supernatural.
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Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
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Post by Revvie® on Dec 28, 2010 20:00:11 GMT -5
and stop the straw man argument...i never said a psychic existed or that science was meaningless..your not arguing against my point...your arguing against a point I never made
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 28, 2010 21:36:12 GMT -5
again hulk you miss it. All I said was its not a fact...it might be a "scientific truth" in terms as true as science can confirm things....BUT you said it yourself...science cannot test things that are supernatural. But it's not supernatural. The claim that someone has <<insert ability here>> is very, very testable. Science rules the realm of the testable hypothesis. It's not supernatural by any definition of the word. If a guy claims he can read minds/predict the future/move things with his thoughts/any other ability you can think of, how is that not something testable? My argument is not a straw man argument. You are saying we can't say psychics are bullcrapbecause we haven't tested every single person in the world and there may be someone in the 6 billion people on this planet who really does have psychic abilities and we have haven't tested them. Am I incorrect there? Yet at the same time I'm assuming you believe that DNA is a great identifier. Yet, we haven't tested the DNA of every single person on the planet. Tell me how those two arguments are not equivalent.
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Post by K5 on Dec 28, 2010 23:53:01 GMT -5
But it's not supernatural. The claim that someone has <<insert ability here>> is very, very testable. Science rules the realm of the testable hypothesis. It's not supernatural by any definition of the word. If a guy claims he can read minds/predict the future/move things with his thoughts/any other ability you can think of, how is that not something testable? so it wouldn't be supernatural for a human being to have psychic abilities? you think every normal person actually has these this as a common trait? seriously, by this point the conversation has become mundane. you said yourself pages ago that you cannot disprove what is in question. you then said that science cannot disprove it as it is supernatural. now you're saying being god is supernatural, but having supernatural powers...is not supernatural. consider me done.
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Post by Calcifer Boheme on Dec 29, 2010 0:06:38 GMT -5
But it's not supernatural. The claim that someone has <<insert ability here>> is very, very testable. Science rules the realm of the testable hypothesis. It's not supernatural by any definition of the word. If a guy claims he can read minds/predict the future/move things with his thoughts/any other ability you can think of, how is that not something testable? so it wouldn't be supernatural for a human being to have psychic abilities? you think every normal person actually has these this as a common trait? seriously, by this point the conversation has become mundane. you said yourself pages ago that you cannot disprove what is in question. you then said that science cannot disprove it as it is supernatural. now you're saying being god is supernatural, but having supernatural powers...is not supernatural. consider me done. If it were real then it wouldn't be supernatural, it would be natural... Also, anything that actually exists can be tested and proven. That's just common sense. Cold reading is a parlor trick that some people use to rip off people. It's really sad that anyone would do such a thing, but they do. They are usually as vague as possible to increase the likelihood of getting matches. And when they are wrong, they blame it on you. When I was a kid I got duped. Thoguh after thinking about it I realized how a lot of what was said didn't apply to me, and what did could also apply to a ton of other people. It really is an awful scam. People should check out the episode of BS about it, as it was very good. Oh and to the people who use the notion that police and military use them as examples that it's true... They are human too, and a good con man can con anyone. Not to mention that a psychic detective has never once led to the solving of a case. There is no proof that anyone has actual psychic powers, and much to the contrary. if I see real proof and not just hearsay, I will change my mind. Until then I stand by everything I said.
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Post by K5 on Dec 29, 2010 0:14:38 GMT -5
If it were real then it wouldn't be supernatural, it would be natural... Also, anything that actually exists can be tested and proven. That's just common sense. well, to refute that, then the supernatural then doesn't exist? because if it did...it would be natural? that doesn't make much sense at all pal. secondly, at one time we did not know that our eyes perceive images backwards and it is our brains that decipher images and turn them around. at one time, saying such a thing would be viewed as implausible and foolish. we are still seeing everything through human eyes, although our sciences have developed there are still faults. remember, i never argued that psychic abilities exist and i myself have my doubts. i'm only stating that not science, let alone one member on wf, can overall refute the idea of it.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 29, 2010 8:45:22 GMT -5
But it's not supernatural. The claim that someone has <<insert ability here>> is very, very testable. Science rules the realm of the testable hypothesis. It's not supernatural by any definition of the word. If a guy claims he can read minds/predict the future/move things with his thoughts/any other ability you can think of, how is that not something testable? so it wouldn't be supernatural for a human being to have psychic abilities? you think every normal person actually has these this as a common trait? seriously, by this point the conversation has become mundane. you said yourself pages ago that you cannot disprove what is in question. you then said that science cannot disprove it as it is supernatural. now you're saying being god is supernatural, but having supernatural powers...is not supernatural. consider me done. First of all, you'd have to establish that it was real. You would have to prove that Person A had psychic abilities. For example, let's say Person A claims to be able to read minds and he can see whatever you're seeing. Fine. That's a testable claim. We put him in a room where he can't see you and we show you some pictures. He has to tell us whether you're looking at a dog, a cat, a tree, etc............. Let's say he gets every single one of them correct. We run this experiment several times in several different settings with different testers, different pictures, different people who's minds are being read, etc..... Let's say he gets it right every single time. Now we have proof that this guy has psychic powers. However, we haven't proved the supernatural. We've just proved that this particular guy has psychic powers. Now, comes the part where we have to explain how he does it. I have no idea how he could do it. There are no scientific principles that I'm aware of that would explain this guys ability. We would have to research to explain the guys abilities. None of this changes the fact that his claim to be able to read minds is completely testable. Some guy says he can read minds, predict the future or whatever. How is that claim not something we can test? Someone else says God exists. How would you propose that we test that claim?
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Post by slappy on Dec 29, 2010 9:43:05 GMT -5
Out of all the psychics in the world, why can't one tell us where Osama bid Laden is? Why couldn't one stop September 11? Etc.
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Post by King Silva on Dec 29, 2010 10:25:15 GMT -5
I never did that but I tend to not believe it so I doubt I would ever do it..
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Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
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Post by Revvie® on Dec 29, 2010 12:32:32 GMT -5
A man has to claim to be psychic in order to be tested.
I have posted the definition to psychic and SUPERNATURAL and (outside of science) was part of its actual definition.
Only clairvoyance is considered to be able to read the future or minds and what ever else most of these people claim.
The psychic definition covers any anomaly in the human mind.
AND neither K nor I have ever said "psychics exist" which lends creedence to a straw man argument followed by ad hominem attacks.
You stated God as being untestable and supernatural.
Psychic abilities(in its entirety) are not testable(unless a human being first makes the claim he or she can)...and its a supernatural trait by definition.
you have no clue about etymology, psychology, or philosophy. And you show this by your failed arguments, making our point for us, and then still arguing we believe when at no time we said that.
Truly, study critical thinking, and take a couple classes and then return with a stronger backing then just your idle attacks and imaginary discussion points.
Earth being round, DNA existing does not compare to the human mind in any way. if so I want you to do something for me. We can explain the earth with detail science and even DNA now.
Now explain to me or give me a link to tell me how all my emotions work, how do I think, why do my actions in my body cause reactions in my mind that dont always correspond. I want you to explain to me what every one of our 10% neurons or the other 90% gliald...and then tell me how they make me think without any uncertainty. I want you to explain to me why the human mind is so complex....then and then you will have me believing their are no such thing as psychics.
The true human mind is something you cannot scientifically test, the brain is not the same as the mind as the brain is just a vessel in some ways to it. So to say that science can explain the mind is ignorant.
science can explain away psychics who make claims and then get tested but they dont test people who make no claims
science is always refining its majority accepted "facts." Why keep testing you know these are facts? because science isnt based on that.
btw: I dont believe in psychics....just in case you missed it again
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Dec 29, 2010 12:44:03 GMT -5
Out of all the psychics in the world, why can't one tell us where Osama bid Laden is? Why couldn't one stop September 11? Etc. The same reason that these so called "spiritual healers" can't walk into a hospital and clear out every bed with God's divine power. It isn't real.
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Post by K5 on Dec 29, 2010 12:51:59 GMT -5
Out of all the psychics in the world, why can't one tell us where Osama bid Laden is? Why couldn't one stop September 11? Etc. i've only said it a million times this thread, but once again, psychic abilities cannot be conditioned to specific demands. perhaps if such powers exist, we simply haven't properly developed them yet as we still believe that 'they can't be real'.
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Post by K5 on Dec 29, 2010 12:57:36 GMT -5
How is that claim not something we can test? because we don't thoroughly understand it. it would be like testing if a toad's kidney could digest a certain kind of food, and to find out we opened it up and watched it's organs processing it...except we had no idea which organ was the kidney or the fact that opening it up would surely end it's life. IF psychic abilities exists, we obviously do not understand or have enough knowledge of it to properly test it. i don't know how many times you're going to go in circles with this. it's painful.
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Post by slappy on Dec 29, 2010 12:59:57 GMT -5
Out of all the psychics in the world, why can't one tell us where Osama bid Laden is? Why couldn't one stop September 11? Etc. i've only said it a million times this thread, but once again, psychic abilities cannot be conditioned to specific demands. perhaps if such powers exist, we simply haven't properly developed them yet as we still believe that 'they can't be real'. They should be able to tell. If they can look into the future, they should be able to see the attack or the results of the attack and warn us about it.
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Dec 29, 2010 13:07:00 GMT -5
Out of all the psychics in the world, why can't one tell us where Osama bid Laden is? Why couldn't one stop September 11? Etc. i've only said it a million times this thread, but once again, psychic abilities cannot be conditioned to specific demands. perhaps if such powers exist, we simply haven't properly developed them yet as we still believe that 'they can't be real'. I'm just saying. If they can see into the future and tell people that they're life is about to change immensly, why can't they do the same to indicate a terrorist attack that would cripple our country? Believe me, I'm not turning a blind eye to anything(to my knowledge, lol). We have psychics who are employed by the military and police. What good are they?
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 29, 2010 13:15:04 GMT -5
How is that claim not something we can test? because we don't thoroughly understand it. it would be like testing if a toad's kidney could digest a certain kind of food, and to find out we opened it up and watched it's organs processing it...except we had no idea which organ was the kidney or the fact that opening it up would surely end it's life. IF psychic abilities exists, we obviously do not understand or have enough knowledge of it to properly test it. i don't know how many times you're going to go in circles with this. it's painful. We don't fully understand why light sometimes behaves as particles and sometimes behaves as waves. Yet it's something we can and do test. You fail to grasp science apparently. You don't have to understand all the inner workings of something to know that it works or to test it. I confess that I don't understand everything that goes into making my car start . However, I can easily test whether it's going to start or not. All I have to do is turn the key. That's a test. I don't have to fully understand the internal combustion engine to test something. You seem to think that science has to completely and thoroughly understand something before they can do any testing. It speaks to a weak understanding of how science actually works. In science, someone makes a claim. That claim is tested and verified or falsified. Once the claim has been verified, then you work on figuring out why it works if you don't know the answer already. Psychics all make testable claims. They claim they can read minds. Or that they can predict the future. Or whatever. All of these claims are testable. Whether one understands how it works is another question. You can still test all of these claims. These claims have been tested. They've all been falsified. We could easily test if a toad could digest something. You feed the toad the food and kill/dissect the toad a few hours later to see if the food is being broken down. It's an easy test. Even if we don't know exactly how it works, it's still testable.
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Post by K5 on Dec 29, 2010 14:00:13 GMT -5
i've only said it a million times this thread, but once again, psychic abilities cannot be conditioned to specific demands. perhaps if such powers exist, we simply haven't properly developed them yet as we still believe that 'they can't be real'. They should be able to tell. If they can look into the future, they should be able to see the attack or the results of the attack and warn us about it. do i even need to respond to this? what you believe they 'should' be able to do really doesn't matter at all. i've said many times that information may not come readily. it's not perhaps as simple as an ask a question and receive an answer. once again, i don't know. but neither do you.
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Post by K5 on Dec 29, 2010 14:02:16 GMT -5
I'm just saying. If they can see into the future and tell people that they're life is about to change immensly, why can't they do the same to indicate a terrorist attack that would cripple our country? Believe me, I'm not turning a blind eye to anything(to my knowledge, lol). We have psychics who are employed by the military and police. What good are they? the whole go to psychic and ask a question for your future thing is obviously extremely sketchy and i'm not trying to say they're all legitimate psychics. but from what i've read, most psychic developments that actually end up being relevant come to them more as a dream than anything, it simply comes to them.
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Post by slappy on Dec 29, 2010 14:04:56 GMT -5
One person who can see into the future over the last 100 or more years must have seen September 11 happening. Not one person could predict it.
You don't have to ask the question "Will there be a terror attack in America?"
Maybe not even September 11, not one person saw Pearl Harbor coming or any of the other major events in history.
Over the course of time, one person should have been able to see something happening, but we have no proof anyone did.
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