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Post by roddypiper on Mar 20, 2011 23:35:06 GMT -5
Not sure why everyone is on the Phil Davis boat. A guy who's best win is over Tim Boetsch isn't that quite impressive to me. See how he does against Nogueira before they start putting him in the top 10. I just went with the fighters given to me gees lol. Shogun can fight Nogueria too. I don't care lol.
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threehgame
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Beyond Bored By You and Your Wrestling
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Post by threehgame on Mar 20, 2011 23:42:00 GMT -5
Congrats to Bones. I felt that while ring rust had something to do with it, Bones overcame the mental block of fighting a punishment machine and the media hype. Shogun will bounce back, most likely with a huge knockout in his next fight.
As for the people who think Shogun should retire: why? He lost to someone that no-one has really beaten. If Shogun lost to a one-armed Rich Franklin counter jab then maybe. Also while a groin injury isn't as bad as a knee, GSP came back and showed little ring-rust and Lesnar came back, took a whoopin' and won. Shogun just needed more time to focus on Bones instead of Evans.
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Post by Neos on Mar 21, 2011 0:16:30 GMT -5
Oh no, Shogun fanboy to the rescue! Even if it was "ring rust", he should at least try to counter. All he did was hold his arms up and wait to get punched in the face. He really should retire at this rate. I mean, 3/6 wins is just not impressive. Pride Shogun was a monster but UFC Shogun is just overated. Your being unimpressed with Shogun in the UFC doesn't make anyone who likes him some brain dead "fanboy". Stop throwing that word around. So he's 3-3 in the UFC. One of those wins was for the title, so that should be considered. There are guys who have twice as many wins in the octagon and still haven't managed to win a belt in their division. The guy is 29 and has only lost to good fighters. He lost a tough fight to Forrest, a close (controversial) decision to Machida, and got blown out by someone who could very well be the next big thing. He wasn't randomly KO'd by lower tier competition, so why the hell should he suddenly quit? I really don't understand this logic. Ok so if I use your logic then someone who loses 6 times to top fighters is still considered good just because he lost to top guys? Repeated loses are still repeated loses regardless of the fighter. Take Chuck Liddell,Wanderlei Silva,and Mirko Cro Cop for example. They are great fighters, no doubt about it. Chuck lost to top competition (Rampage,Rashad, Shogun, and Rich Franklin). He retired. Wanderlei lost to top competiton too (Chuck,Rampage,Franklin). He's still fighting but chances are, he's going to lose again. Cro Cop. He's been the UFC's HW knockout reel for a while now, even against lower level competition. He's also still fighting but chances are, he's also going to lose again. You don't see me telling people that Fedor should retire just beacause he lost once to Weldrum. He's still good enough to keep on fighting since it was just one lost, even if it was against a medicore fighter. People who can't grasp the fact that Shogun isn't as good as he once was are just living in the past. If his injuries are really bugging him so much that he can't even fight then maybe it is time to call it quit. And if people keep complaining that he's only losing because of his injuries, then maybe he shouldn't fight while coming off injuries because I am honestly sick of people saying that ring rust is why he lost whenever he loses. Give the better fighters credit and admit that they beated Shogun fair and square.
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Post by SteveHulk on Mar 21, 2011 0:27:16 GMT -5
I think the big question with Shogun is his knees and how they affect his training and performance... if they're not up-to-scratch, he could find things very hard going in the future. But if they're OK and he fights more regularly, he still beats nearly every LHW around. I'd like to see a rematch with either Forrest or Rampage... the way he handled Rampage the first time was pretty awesome, so a rematch would be very interesting and tell us more "where he's at".
And I'd love Shogun Vs Hendo somewhere down the line... it would be a shame if those two never got it together.
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Post by James Hetfield on Mar 21, 2011 0:29:06 GMT -5
I think we all gave Jones MORE than enough credit. Jones was the better man and dominated Shogun 10 ways to Sunday. But, facts are facts, ring rust is real. Jones JUST had a fight 6 weeks ago and was fresh off that. Shogun hasn't had a fight in 10 months. That just can't be ignored.
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Post by Neos on Mar 21, 2011 0:39:46 GMT -5
I think we all gave Jones MORE than enough credit. Jones was the better man and dominated Shogun 10 ways to Sunday. But, facts are facts, ring rust is real. Jones JUST had a fight 6 weeks ago and was fresh off that. Shogun hasn't had a fight in 10 months. That just can't be ignored. Ok. But if Shogun's knees are shot, then why doesn't he just focus on fully recovering before stepping back inside the octagon? Either that or just fight smaller level fighters to regain his previous condition before moving onto bigger fights. I just get P.O.ed whenever people say that Shogun's loss are because of ring rust yet they don't metion it whenever he wins but instead boast about his greatness.
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Post by James Hetfield on Mar 21, 2011 0:45:17 GMT -5
I'm not talking about "injuries". I'm talking about actually NOT stepping in there for a long period of time. It happens to a lot of guys.
"Ring rust" and "Injuries" are two different things, buddy. Get to know the difference before you start freaking out and making assumptions of what people thought of the fight.
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Post by Neos on Mar 21, 2011 0:54:06 GMT -5
I'm not talking about "injuries". I'm talking about actually NOT stepping in there for a long period of time. It happens to a lot of guys. "Ring rust" and "Injuries" are two different things, buddy. Get to know the difference before you start freaking out and making assumptions of what people thought of the fight. My mistake,I just take the only reason he was getting ring rust from not fighting was because of his injuries, but you are always right of course. And that fight was just further proof that Shogun can't even fight back, let alone defend himself regardless of his "ring rust". It's your opinion that Shogun lost because of ring rust and it's mine opinion that Shogun lost because he's just not as good anymore.
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PrideFcF
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Post by PrideFcF on Mar 21, 2011 1:01:10 GMT -5
Your being unimpressed with Shogun in the UFC doesn't make anyone who likes him some brain dead "fanboy". Stop throwing that word around. So he's 3-3 in the UFC. One of those wins was for the title, so that should be considered. There are guys who have twice as many wins in the octagon and still haven't managed to win a belt in their division. The guy is 29 and has only lost to good fighters. He lost a tough fight to Forrest, a close (controversial) decision to Machida, and got blown out by someone who could very well be the next big thing. He wasn't randomly KO'd by lower tier competition, so why the hell should he suddenly quit? I really don't understand this logic. Ok so if I use your logic then someone who loses 6 times to top fighters is still considered good just because he lost to top guys? Repeated loses are still repeated loses regardless of the fighter. Take Chuck Liddell,Wanderlei Silva,and Mirko Cro Cop for example. They are great fighters, no doubt about it. Chuck lost to top competition (Rampage,Rashad, Shogun, and Rich Franklin). He retired. Wanderlei lost to top competiton too (Chuck,Rampage,Franklin). He's still fighting but chances are, he's going to lose again. Cro Cop. He's been the UFC's HW knockout reel for a while now, even against lower level competition. He's also still fighting but chances are, he's also going to lose again. You don't see me telling people that Fedor should retire just beacause he lost once to Weldrum. He's still good enough to keep on fighting since it was just one lost, even if it was against a medicore fighter. People who can't grasp the fact that Shogun isn't as good as he once was are just living in the past. If his injuries are really bugging him so much that he can't even fight then maybe it is time to call it quit. And if people keep complaining that he's only losing because of his injuries, then maybe he shouldn't fight while coming off injuries because I am honestly sick of people saying that ring rust is why he lost whenever he loses. Give the better fighters credit and admit that they beated Shogun fair and square. You're twisting my statement to suite your argument. I'm talking about Shogun in the UFC right now, and nobody else. Nor did I make any excuses for his loss to Jones (or the other 2 losses for that matter). In the UFC, he hadn't been manhandled by anyone until Jones. Forrest did great against him, but Shogun did his best to combat him the entire time. Even though he didn't look like himself after his first 2 UFC fights, he looked great in the next 3. Nobody should use ring rust as an excuse for his loss to Jones. Real or not, that's on him. If you're going to be at the top of the division, especially as a champion, that's just the cards you have to play with some times. But at the same time, don't use his bad loss to Jones as an excuse to say he's washed up or needs to quit now. The only good point you make is the injuries. Shogun is notorious for pushing himself to fight even when hurt. His knee is a cause for concern, but NOTHING right now says that he's a burnt out fighter like some are claiming. He got beat by a guy who showed he can hang with the big boys. Simple as that. Jones will move forward and do his thing, and I see no reason to assume, with little doubt, that he can't do the same.
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Post by James Hetfield on Mar 21, 2011 1:05:00 GMT -5
I'm not talking about "injuries". I'm talking about actually NOT stepping in there for a long period of time. It happens to a lot of guys. "Ring rust" and "Injuries" are two different things, buddy. Get to know the difference before you start freaking out and making assumptions of what people thought of the fight. My mistake,I just take the only reason he was getting ring rust from not fighting was because of his injuries, but you are always right of course. And that fight was just further proof that Shogun can't even fight back, let alone defend himself regardless of his "ring rust". It's your opinion that Shogun lost because of ring rust and it's mine opinion that Shogun lost because he's just not as good anymore. He's not good anymore, yet he was able to demolish the once undefeated Lyoto Machida? Come on, man.
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Sandy
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
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Post by Sandy on Mar 21, 2011 1:07:25 GMT -5
Yeah did I miss something, too? Why is everyone on Phil Davis' jock?
I think the guy is good but people are talking about the guy like he is the next GSP.
Bones looked amazing. It did suck as a fan of Shogun to see him lose like that. Jones is just too damn good. I really would love to see Machida vs. Jones.
Evans vs. Jones just doesn't excite me, tbh. The hype will be good, I am sure. But I think Evans will be dominated. They did train together though so maybe Rashad knows a weakness.
Very impressed by Jones performance. I still think his striking can be a bit more crisp. But the guy is the real deal.
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Post by Neos on Mar 21, 2011 1:13:44 GMT -5
Yeah did I miss something, too? Why is everyone on Phil Davis' jock? I think the guy is good but people are talking about the guy like he is the next GSP. Bones looked amazing. It did suck as a fan of Shogun to see him lose like that. Jones is just too damn good. I really would love to see Machida vs. Jones. Evans vs. Jones just doesn't excite me, tbh. The hype will be good, I am sure. But I think Evans will be dominated. They did train together though so maybe Rashad knows a weakness. Very impressed by Jones performance. I still think his striking can be a bit more crisp. But the guy is the real deal. I agree about Jones. He also needs to learn how to rush a foe when they are rocked. Evans vs Jones also looks boring to me on paper. Just no chemistry.
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Mar 21, 2011 10:18:34 GMT -5
Yeah did I miss something, too? Why is everyone on Phil Davis' jock? I think the guy is good but people are talking about the guy like he is the next GSP. Bones looked amazing. It did suck as a fan of Shogun to see him lose like that. Jones is just too damn good. I really would love to see Machida vs. Jones. Evans vs. Jones just doesn't excite me, tbh. The hype will be good, I am sure. But I think Evans will be dominated. They did train together though so maybe Rashad knows a weakness. Very impressed by Jones performance. I still think his striking can be a bit more crisp. But the guy is the real deal. I agree about Jones. He also needs to learn how to rush a foe when they are rocked. Evans vs Jones also looks boring to me on paper. Just no chemistry. Chemistry? This isn't a wrestling match. I think Evan's style poses something interesting towards Jones. I don't think that he'll get steam rolled like everyone is saying. Of course, I may be a bit biased towards Rashad with him being my favorite fighter.
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threehgame
Main Eventer
Beyond Bored By You and Your Wrestling
Joined on: Sept 22, 2008 19:09:45 GMT -5
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Post by threehgame on Mar 21, 2011 10:54:05 GMT -5
I'm not talking about "injuries". I'm talking about actually NOT stepping in there for a long period of time. It happens to a lot of guys. "Ring rust" and "Injuries" are two different things, buddy. Get to know the difference before you start freaking out and making assumptions of what people thought of the fight. I don't buy into ring rust as the sole reason for the loss. As I said, Lesnar got hurt in his return fight, overcame it and won. GSP showed no slow down or ring rust in his return. Either Shogun did not have enough time to focus his training on Bones (Which is what I think happened, Evans would have kept the fight mostly on the ground, Bones is known for his wrestling and liking to throw alot of off angle punches/kicks) or his injury was worse then thought and he hasn't fully recovered.
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Mar 21, 2011 12:44:20 GMT -5
I think we all gave Jones MORE than enough credit. Jones was the better man and dominated Shogun 10 ways to Sunday. But, facts are facts, ring rust is real. Jones JUST had a fight 6 weeks ago and was fresh off that. Shogun hasn't had a fight in 10 months. That just can't be ignored. Ok. But if Shogun's knees are shot, then why doesn't he just focus on fully recovering before stepping back inside the octagon? Either that or just fight smaller level fighters to regain his previous condition before moving onto bigger fights. I just get P.O.ed whenever people say that Shogun's loss are because of ring rust yet they don't metion it whenever he wins but instead boast about his greatness. So you want the (now former) LHW champion to defend his title against a guy like Cyrille Diabate to "regain his condition" instead of defending against the upper echelon like he's supposed to? My god, this is one of the many reasons (which there have been several instances of in this thread alone) why I rarely visit this board anymore. You're talking about Shogun like he was an undeserving champion. The same guy that people (including myself) SCREAMED about being screwed against Machida, only to come back in the second fight and prove why he was in fact screwed. This "fanboy," "nuthugger," crap is ridiculous. Go back to Sherdog where several of you have already claimed you post in the first place. Maybe this place can be civil and have intelligent debates instead of pointless posts that I don't even read because they aren't even semi-thought out or by completely ignorant people. 1 - Fedor has lost twice now, watch MMA. I'm not saying this is a reason for Fedor to retire, nor am I taking away from the pure dominance he's shown over his career...I'm simply proving you shouldn't post. Not to mention you called Fabricio Werdum a "mediocre fighter" which is hilarious since he's widely considered the 2nd best HW in the WORLD, behind Cain. 2 - Shogun is TWENTY NINE years old. Not 36 (CC) or 41 (Chuck). You're honestly trying to say that because Shogun lost to someone who people are billing as one of the best fighters in the entire world that he's no longer "good." Great logic behind that. Shogun needs to take a little time, become 100% and then train. Simple as that. When did this place turn to crap? I liked it when it was Bateman, Kliquid, Boquest, P2D, Johnny Lawrence, Hetfield and a few others.
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Mar 21, 2011 14:45:28 GMT -5
I'll be pulling for Rashad to beat Jones. I just don't like Jones - he doesn't interest me whatsoever.
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hammer
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Post by hammer on Mar 21, 2011 15:04:18 GMT -5
"Yeah did I miss something, too? Why is everyone on Phil Davis' jock?"
that hammerlock submission in his last fight was off the wall bonkers. but yea, he hasnt beaten anybody yet.
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Mar 21, 2011 15:21:06 GMT -5
I'll be pulling for Rashad to beat Jones. I just don't like Jones - he doesn't interest me whatsoever. Yeah, I don't see what's so interesting about a 23 year old, extremely well rounded fighter that FINISHES fights, can take you down and actually impose his will while being able to transition to dominant positions with very few problems; has destroyed EVERYONE that's been put in front of him; can fight both southpaw or regular; will stand and bang; and is very unorthodox to the point of fighters we've never seen. I can see where you're coming from... Give me Jon Fitch, Rashad Evans, Gray Maynard and King Mo ANYDAY over the likes of Jon Jones, Jose Aldo, Frankie Edgar, Urijah Faber, Joseph Benavidez, etc...
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Post by 1992 on Mar 21, 2011 15:35:31 GMT -5
But if Jones was from Sheffield....
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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on Mar 21, 2011 16:31:47 GMT -5
Bones Jones is a new breed of fighter. He is the next Generation of fighter, he grew up learning MMA, not boxing, kickboxing, BJJ, muay thai, judo. He is the new breed of fighters. Like Royce was, Randy was, Chuck was.
My only thing may be to much to soon.
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