jcsix
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Post by jcsix on Mar 20, 2011 18:00:19 GMT -5
While there is no doubt that some people like you are happy with the Road Warriors and Slaughter from Series 1, I think the majority of Legends collectors (myself included) would have rather had Slaughter in camouflage (or Iraqi sympathizer attire) and had the Legion of Doom in their red attire And as far as the Tag Team series 1 goes, everybody on here knows that whoever decided on the lineup really screwed the ing pooch on that one. Actually, I think majority of collectors would rather not buy a figure similar to one they already own, and would rather buy something different. Agreed 100%, They where already made, so why buy the figure if it was pretty much the same? Its different which can be added to you'r collection. So the "It wasn't a memorable attire" or "Why choose this attire, they never wore it in WWF" thing which some say isn't that good of an idea to say when they ones they want making have already been made.
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kevinandrewc
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Post by kevinandrewc on Mar 20, 2011 18:04:35 GMT -5
While there is no doubt that some people like you are happy with the Road Warriors and Slaughter from Series 1, I think the majority of Legends collectors (myself included) would have rather had Slaughter in camouflage (or Iraqi sympathizer attire) and had the Legion of Doom in their red attire And as far as the Tag Team series 1 goes, everybody on here knows that whoever decided on the lineup really screwed the ing pooch on that one. Actually, I think majority of collectors would rather not buy a figure similar to one they already own, and would rather buy something different. Whatever we say "collectors prefer," there are a few incontrovertible facts: 1) The legends line has been cut from 6 to 4. 2) The 2-pack line has been scrapped altogether. I doubt this happened because Mattel was giving the majority of the collectors what they prefer. Slow sales = a trimmed down roster. And why were sales slow? Just saying . . .
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kevinandrewc
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Post by kevinandrewc on Mar 20, 2011 18:09:24 GMT -5
Actually, I think majority of collectors would rather not buy a figure similar to one they already own, and would rather buy something different. Agreed 100%, They where already made, so why buy the figure if it was pretty much the same? Its different which can be added to you'r collection. So the "It wasn't a memorable attire" or "Why choose this attire, they never wore it in WWF" thing which some say isn't that good of an idea to say when they ones they want making have already been made. Yes, already been made by a different company using a different scale with different articulation standards. Why are Mattels elite articulated, scaled legends preclusive to Jakk's figures that were mostly not? I just don't understand.
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PenguinDeluxe
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Post by PenguinDeluxe on Mar 20, 2011 18:17:34 GMT -5
Agreed 100%, They where already made, so why buy the figure if it was pretty much the same? Its different which can be added to you'r collection. So the "It wasn't a memorable attire" or "Why choose this attire, they never wore it in WWF" thing which some say isn't that good of an idea to say when they ones they want making have already been made. Yes, already been made by a different company using a different scale with different articulation standards. Why are Mattels elite articulated, scaled legends preclusive to Jakk's figures that were mostly not? I just don't understand. Because its extra incentive. You have someone who has all the CS's. He looks at the Legends line and goes "Meh, no sense in collecting these, I have all I need... wait a minute, that's a different era than any of the ones Jakks made. Maybe I should get these..." The Legends line, lets be honest, was never really meant for the mainstream consumer anyways, so its demographic was small to start. Add in those who collected CS and would rather not start collecting a new line, that number dwindles further. Anything to attract people to the line is fine in my book.
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kevinandrewc
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Post by kevinandrewc on Mar 20, 2011 18:27:09 GMT -5
Yes, already been made by a different company using a different scale with different articulation standards. Why are Mattels elite articulated, scaled legends preclusive to Jakk's figures that were mostly not? I just don't understand. Because its extra incentive. You have someone who has all the CS's. He looks at the Legends line and goes "Meh, no sense in collecting these, I have all I need... wait a minute, that's a different era than any of the ones Jakks made. Maybe I should get these..." The Legends line, lets be honest, was never really meant for the mainstream consumer anyways, so its demographic was small to start. Add in those who collected CS and would rather not start collecting a new line, that number dwindles further. Anything to attract people to the line is fine in my book. But is attracting the seasoned collectors worth alienating the new ones? I only own a few Jakks, but quickly stopped buying them when I saw how inferior they were to Mattel. Then I read somewhere that these more obscure attires were selected because Jakks already did it. And I was ticked! It's like saying "I'm not gonna buy Led Zeppelin's debut album on CD because I already own it on cassette." This is just ridiculous logic, in my mind at least. Why wouldn't you want the better quality?
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PenguinDeluxe
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Post by PenguinDeluxe on Mar 20, 2011 18:30:45 GMT -5
Because its extra incentive. You have someone who has all the CS's. He looks at the Legends line and goes "Meh, no sense in collecting these, I have all I need... wait a minute, that's a different era than any of the ones Jakks made. Maybe I should get these..." The Legends line, lets be honest, was never really meant for the mainstream consumer anyways, so its demographic was small to start. Add in those who collected CS and would rather not start collecting a new line, that number dwindles further. Anything to attract people to the line is fine in my book. But is attracting the seasoned collectors worth alienating the new ones? I only own a few Jakks, but quickly stopped buying them when I saw how inferior they were to Mattel. Then I read somewhere that these more obscure attires were selected because Jakks already did it. And I was ticked! It's like saying "I'm not gonna buy Led Zeppelin's debut album on CD because I already own it on cassette." This is just ridiculous logic, in my mind at least. Why wouldn't you want the better quality? What new collectors? Honestly, I seriously doubt anyone who didn't collect CS figures are going to start picking up Legends figures in LARGE droves. And who is to say they won't release other attires? And I'm confused by your logic, because the same album on two different formats is not the same thing as two completely different attired products.
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kevinandrewc
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Post by kevinandrewc on Mar 20, 2011 18:36:39 GMT -5
But is attracting the seasoned collectors worth alienating the new ones? I only own a few Jakks, but quickly stopped buying them when I saw how inferior they were to Mattel. Then I read somewhere that these more obscure attires were selected because Jakks already did it. And I was ticked! It's like saying "I'm not gonna buy Led Zeppelin's debut album on CD because I already own it on cassette." This is just ridiculous logic, in my mind at least. Why wouldn't you want the better quality? What new collectors? Honestly, I seriously doubt anyone who didn't collect CS figures are going to start picking up Legends figures in LARGE droves. And who is to say they won't release other attires? And I'm confused by your logic, because the same album on two different formats is not the same thing as two completely different attired products.Exactly. They are the same thing. That's my point. It's just that one is a better quality than the other, therefore it makes perfect sense to buy the better quality even if you own the same thing. A CD is higher quality than a cassette, right? Mattel is higher quality than Jakks. Just because you own camo Sarge for Jakks shouldn't keep you from buying him for Mattel, just like owning Led 1 on cassette shouldn't keep you from upgrading to a CD. That's the logic I don't understand . . . skipping a better product because you own an inferior version. And that's the idea that Mattel obviously went with (and you too). Imagine if CD companies said "we're not going to make the same exact albums already made in cassette form."
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PenguinDeluxe
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Post by PenguinDeluxe on Mar 20, 2011 18:40:30 GMT -5
What new collectors? Honestly, I seriously doubt anyone who didn't collect CS figures are going to start picking up Legends figures in LARGE droves. And who is to say they won't release other attires? And I'm confused by your logic, because the same album on two different formats is not the same thing as two completely different attired products.Exactly. They are the same thing. That's my point. It's just that one is a better quality than the other, therefore it makes perfect sense to buy the better quality even if you own the same thing. A CD is higher quality than a cassette, right? Mattel is higher quality than Jakks. Just because you own camo Sarge for Jakks shouldn't keep you from buying him for Mattel, just like owning Led 1 on cassette shouldn't keep you from upgrading to a CD. That's the logic I don't understand . . . skipping a better product because you own an inferior version. And that's the idea that Mattel obviously went with (and you too). Imagine if CD companies said "we're not going to make the same exact albums already made in cassette form." 1. We're talking about collectors who have invested in SEVERAL figures, not just one or two lone figures. 2. Its not a matter of a figure being better or not, its EXTRA incentive to get it. Your average collector is just going to say "oh hey, Slaughter, yeah, he's great!". For the more hardcore collector, he's going to say "Slaughter, I have several of him and would rather not restart my collection with guys I already got... but wait, this is different, something not done before!" 3. The difference between a CD and cassette or DVD and VHS is NOT the same as with action figures. You go from cassettes and VHS's to CDs and DVDs because the former becomes obsolete. That isn't the case here. 4. Vinyl is better anyways.
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Post by twinn on Mar 20, 2011 18:43:42 GMT -5
I guess I am only able to speak for myself and what I know is that Sgt. Slaughter and The Road Warriors are 3 of the only figures that I don't own in the legends line. Had they been made in their camo and L.O.D. attires I would own them
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Post by squaredcircleactionfigs on Mar 20, 2011 18:51:41 GMT -5
But is attracting the seasoned collectors worth alienating the new ones? I only own a few Jakks, but quickly stopped buying them when I saw how inferior they were to Mattel. Then I read somewhere that these more obscure attires were selected because Jakks already did it. And I was ticked! It's like saying "I'm not gonna buy Led Zeppelin's debut album on CD because I already own it on cassette." This is just ridiculous logic, in my mind at least. Why wouldn't you want the better quality? What new collectors? Honestly, I seriously doubt anyone who didn't collect CS figures are going to start picking up Legends figures in LARGE droves. And who is to say they won't release other attires? And I'm confused by your logic, because the same album on two different formats is not the same thing as two completely different attired products. I agree. The Legends line targets a niche market which is dominated by a demographic between the ages of 25 and 50(?) who are action figure collectors. In fairness to Mattel, they could not predict how the market would react to the new Legends product. Especially after Jakks had the WWE license for so many years. Therefore, Mattel used the new attire strategy to test the market. It was not a perfect strategy and was flawed in various areas but it was by no means a failure. Bill (the boss) admitted this in the Toy Fair videos. Now, Mattel has market data and can move its strategy in a different direction (as seen with the upcoming series with more familiar wrestlers in familiar attires). Getting back to the belt. It is a GOOD idea and it looks great. However, it is not the right time or place for it (unless you make it a variant). I want to look at my Warrior figure MOC, remember the memorable moments of Wrestlemania VI and say this is complete. Not think about how the designer influenced the product for "fun", "commemoration", "cuteness", etc.
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kevinandrewc
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Post by kevinandrewc on Mar 20, 2011 19:24:02 GMT -5
I agree. The Legends line targets a niche market which is dominated by a demographic between the ages of 25 and 50(?) who are action figure collectors. In fairness to Mattel, they could not predict how the market would react to the new Legends product. Especially after Jakks had the WWE license for so many years. Therefore, Mattel used the new attire strategy to test the market. It was not a perfect strategy and was flawed in various areas but it was by no means a failure. Bill (the boss) admitted this in the Toy Fair videos. Now, Mattel has market data and can move its strategy in a different direction (as seen with the upcoming series with more familiar wrestlers in familiar attires). Getting back to the belt. It is a GOOD idea and it looks great. However, it is not the right time or place for it (unless you make it a variant). I want to look at my Warrior figure MOC, remember the memorable moments of Wrestlemania VI and say this is complete. Not think about how the designer influenced the product for "fun", "commemoration", "cuteness", etc. Fair enough. There is plenty of time for Mattel to redirect their efforts, which I hope they do in terms of providing more iconic looks. I absolutely love Mattel's figures, and I own over 45 legends, DMs, EGs, and a few elites. I never collected Jakks. I'm 27 and just started collecting figs (as an adult) this past July. So when I saw Sgt Slaughter, he was my first and only version of the character, then I heard allusions to the idea that Mattel was leaning toward being an "obscure attired" line. That scared me and made me angry, especially when I compared a few Jakks I bought online to my new Mattels, and my Mattels were far superior in my mind. We'll see. So far I am very pleased overall, but I do not want them to keep making less iconic looks or historically inaccurate versions. It's like making a Michael Jordan in his Wizards uniform because some people already own MJ in his Bulls uni. (That's better than a cassette/CD, Penguin.)
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PenguinDeluxe
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Post by PenguinDeluxe on Mar 20, 2011 19:28:34 GMT -5
I agree. The Legends line targets a niche market which is dominated by a demographic between the ages of 25 and 50(?) who are action figure collectors. In fairness to Mattel, they could not predict how the market would react to the new Legends product. Especially after Jakks had the WWE license for so many years. Therefore, Mattel used the new attire strategy to test the market. It was not a perfect strategy and was flawed in various areas but it was by no means a failure. Bill (the boss) admitted this in the Toy Fair videos. Now, Mattel has market data and can move its strategy in a different direction (as seen with the upcoming series with more familiar wrestlers in familiar attires). Getting back to the belt. It is a GOOD idea and it looks great. However, it is not the right time or place for it (unless you make it a variant). I want to look at my Warrior figure MOC, remember the memorable moments of Wrestlemania VI and say this is complete. Not think about how the designer influenced the product for "fun", "commemoration", "cuteness", etc. Fair enough. There is plenty of time for Mattel to redirect their efforts, which I hope they do in terms of providing more iconic looks. I absolutely love Mattel's figures, and I own over 45 legends, DMs, EGs, and a few elites. I never collected Jakks. I'm 27 and just started collecting figs (as an adult) this past July. So when I saw Sgt Slaughter, he was my first and only version of the character, then I heard allusions to the idea that Mattel was leaning toward being an "obscure attired" line. That scared me and made me angry, especially when I compared a few Jakks I bought online to my new Mattels, and my Mattels were far superior in my mind. We'll see. So far I am very pleased overall, but I do not want them to keep making less iconic looks or historically inaccurate versions. It's like making a Michael Jordan in his Wizards uniform because some people already own MJ in his Bulls uni. (That's better than a cassette/CD, Penguin.) Yes, that's a much better example, but I will argue that... Vinyl > Michael Jordan That's what we were discussing, wasn't it?
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Mar 20, 2011 20:27:13 GMT -5
Actually, I think majority of collectors would rather not buy a figure similar to one they already own, and would rather buy something different. Whatever we say "collectors prefer," there are a few incontrovertible facts: 1) The legends line has been cut from 6 to 4. 2) The 2-pack line has been scrapped altogether. I doubt this happened because Mattel was giving the majority of the collectors what they prefer. Slow sales = a trimmed down roster. And why were sales slow? Just saying . . . Exactly. Anyone who thinks making obscure wrestlers and obscure versions of popular wrestlers was a good idea just needs to look at how the Legends line has been reduced. As much as LOD in black and Slaughter in white and blue appealed to a few people on here, it clearly didn't blow the average wrestling figure consumer away. If that sort of stuff had been a good move, the Legends line would be increasing as a result, not decreasing. Fortunately, Mattel's people seem to have realised they need to be more sensible with which Legends figures they release.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 21:53:07 GMT -5
I Agree They prob should have put out the more iconic versions first to sell the line, but i could see how it would sell to previous jakks collectors.... " wow i have never seen that costume done, and dont own a figure like that" and i was going to pass on Slaughter and L.O.D and wait for the more iconic versions, but honestly i love the figures and got them anyhow. especially slaughter Just Be Patient, Mattel just started last year, theres plenty of time for re-paints and whatnot.... and im sure legends will go back up to 6 in time. you cant expect mattel to be as popular to collectors who just ended a 10-15 year run with jakks in the first year, it took me till legends 5 to cave in and now im all aboard
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threehgame
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Post by threehgame on Mar 20, 2011 22:45:46 GMT -5
those who know me well can tell you one thing for certain about me : i have a borderline psychotic / unhealthy fixation with the Winged Eagle World Heavyweight Wrestling Championship Belt! when i first laid eyes on it, during The Main Event match of Hogan vs Andre,i literally fell in love with it! i loved the design,just loved the way it looked,and always did...it was,and still remains,my favorite belt design of all time, so yeah,i'm a self-appointed historian on the belt... The best part of that Main Event was the promo Hogan cut with the old belt, then walked out with the Winged Eagle. Thank you for the ref. pics of the belt along with the time line. I get the white and blue belts mixed up.
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Post by Neos on Mar 21, 2011 0:26:27 GMT -5
I vote for variant! Half of the releases have yellow-strapped IC belt and half have black-strapped Winged Eagle belt. Keeps costs down realisticly and have both sides done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 1:56:53 GMT -5
I will wait for the MOC Pictures.
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JoeRocco420
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Post by JoeRocco420 on Mar 21, 2011 5:06:36 GMT -5
This thread is getting out if control lol
So the Warrior is going to be released with a YELLOW winged eagle belt?? Ok I guess. But why not a purple one or a white one like he actually wore? Nice to hear that mattel is fixing the green on his face and his chest paint.
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buffdaddy88
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Post by buffdaddy88 on Mar 21, 2011 15:22:09 GMT -5
Fix those crooked logos on his knee pads also Mattel. Please!
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kevinandrewc
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Post by kevinandrewc on Mar 21, 2011 16:34:54 GMT -5
This thread is getting out if control lol Well it all started because I said this isn't the first time Mattel has failed to give the majority of collectors what they want . . . then it led to a debate about the legends line in general . . . but I really don't care one way or the other about THIS particular issue, but I can see why people are disappointed. It seems that a simple straw poll on here or elsewhere (or both) would give Mattel a better idea of what MOST people want. Unless Mattel isn't interesting in giving most people what they want, and is more interested in making what they want.
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