PdW2kX
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Post by PdW2kX on Apr 6, 2011 20:17:03 GMT -5
Well, it looks like this debate has reared its ugly head again, at least over at MMA Mania. I normally don't do things like this, and this is one of my longer articles, but I've been meaning to take a firm stance on this issue for a while now, because throughout all the "pro wrestling vs. MMA" wars, my opinion has remained unchanged. The following piece is probably a bit long-winded and maybe a bit rambling, but hey, I thought it made for a good read. Feedback and comments are appreciated. ---------- Pro Wrestling vs. MMA, WWE vs. UFC: Isn't It Time We All Got Along? Article Posted: April 6th, 2011 | By: Oliver SaenzRecently, I came across an interesting post over at MMA Mania. For the full story click here, but here’s a summary: World Wrestling Entertainment recently launched a new program called “Tough Enough” that is basically “The Ultimate Fighter” but with professional wrestlers. The show actually isn’t new at all (more on that later), but more of a relaunching of a once-successful show. But here’s the interesting thing: Tough Enough’s debut bested the debut episode of “The Ultimate Fighter” Season 13 by a not-insignificant number. As a hardcore MMA fan that used to be a hardcore wrestling fan, I’d like to take some time to address this issue. But before we even begin, let’s put aside our torches. This isn’t some tirade for or against MMA/UFC or pro wrestling/ WWE. These are simply some honest reactions and reasons as to why I think the ratings for Tough Enough were a lot better than TUF 13. Let’s start with the “new” factor. “The Ultimate Fighter” has lasted for thirteen straight seasons, and throughout that epically-long run, some fans continue to insist that the format of the show has gotten stale. Whether it’s the hit-or-miss fight quality, the uninteresting coach-on-coach rivalries or the frat boy hijinks, some fans are just tired of TUF. Compare this to Tough Enough, which was the debut episode of an entirely-new show. Well, maybe not entirely-new. “Tough Enough” actually had its first season way back when professional wrestling was shown on MTV. It’s a series that has basically been lying dormant, and it’s undergone a revival. This benefits the show in two ways: fans that may never have heard of the show want to tune in to see what it’s all about, while fans that do remember the show want to tune in and see what’s changed. If you think about it, the appeal for the first episode of “Tough Enough” was very similar to the appeal of any television show that is a remake, adaption, or revival of another show. This was simply a case of “Tough Enough” remaking itself. Typically, the first few episodes of such a series tend to do very well. ---------- If interested, please read the rest here. |
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Post by Kliquid on Apr 6, 2011 20:47:06 GMT -5
Well said, great job on this!
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Post by 1992 on Apr 7, 2011 1:27:39 GMT -5
Tremendous. Just tremendous. I've always felt this way being a die-hard fan of both. To me, and maybe it's just me, but they really go hand in hand. Like it's so easy to be a fan of both.
I got the same nervous, excited feeling watching Undertaker/HHH Sunday that I get watching Fedor/Anyone, or really any high profile fight. In fact my friend's cousin blew my mind when after Taker won he shouted "That's some Anderson Silva sh*t right baby!" and the similarities of the matches(Silva/Sonnen, Taker/HHH) clicked in my mind. The one-sided mugging followed by the greatest come-back submission of all time. lol
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threehgame
Main Eventer
Beyond Bored By You and Your Wrestling
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Post by threehgame on Apr 7, 2011 2:07:05 GMT -5
I have doubts TE's numbers will stay up. It has Stone Cold on it so he is giving it a bump, plus it debuted on the night following Mania. It could be a ratings juggernaut and add a layer to the WWE.
TUF is stale to me mostly because I look at the fighters and expect to much. Most of these guys have little experience but due to the exposure level I almost expect them to be ready to step in the cage with either past contenders or strong mid-level fighters and succeed. Add to it so many of the fighters are uninteresting as people it makes the non-training scenes hard to sit through.
Great article. Lets hope the issue does not become as heated as the boxing vs. mma debate.
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Post by LA Times on Apr 7, 2011 11:38:55 GMT -5
I still get asked by MMA fans "Why do you watch wrestling? Dont you know its fake?" (as if you cannot be a fan of both pro wrestling and MMA). I just reply "Why do you watch movies?".
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Post by SteveHulk on Apr 7, 2011 14:26:20 GMT -5
Really good article, mate. Great article. Lets hope the issue does not become as heated as the boxing vs. mma debate. Amen to that. I've been a boxing fan since I was about 8 - I just don't get why so much of the (boxing) audience looks down on MMA. Remember that tirade that Bob Arum went on? Unbelievable. |
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Post by jbarqu88 on Apr 7, 2011 14:29:56 GMT -5
Good article. I completely agree.
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Post by 1992 on Apr 7, 2011 15:30:16 GMT -5
Really good article, mate. Great article. Lets hope the issue does not become as heated as the boxing vs. mma debate. Amen to that. I've been a boxing fan since I was about 8 - I just don't get why so much of the (boxing) audience looks down on MMA. Remember that tirade that Bob Arum went on? Unbelievable. For me, this is the be all, end all Boxing vs. MMA video/debate/whatever. Joe Rogan, who's like the Godfather of MMA Knowledge, vs. Lou DiBella, who's an extremely successful promoter and father of Boxing After Dark on HBO. The video itself is just about 7 minutes of Joe Rogan legitimately trying to have an intelligent debate with DiBella, while DiBella acts like a pissed off 14 year old, making stupid faces and his best form or argument is to just try and detract in any form by insulting or attacking personally. It's embarrassing as a boxing fan. I almost turned red at about 3:07 when Rogan is putting Boxing over massively, and the guy chimes in with "YOU DON'T LIKE BOXING! NO YOU DON'T!" It was like watching a college professor argue with a member of this forum. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 17:27:34 GMT -5
As always, a great thought-out article there Oliver, I have no qualms about anything you said, though it's easy to assume that when (especially when we're talking about either TE or TUF) the only pro wrestling out there is WWE.
That's fine, but for me personally, just because the WWE is virtually the only game in town in terms of a well-established brand, doesn't mean it is the be-all-and-end-all.
I personally prefer watching either the UFC or puroresu, but I'm not about to 'hate' on the WWE for taking the entertainment route. Once again, great article, and it's a shame that almost straight away you get a response that results in a facepalm...I know I did...
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PdW2kX
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Joined on: Jan 8, 2007 23:34:52 GMT -5
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Post by PdW2kX on Apr 7, 2011 22:40:15 GMT -5
I'd just like to pop in and say thanks to everyone who commented, it really means a lot to know that you guys enjoy my writing since I pretty much got my start here. I'd also like to take this time to post what I felt was a very, very awesome comment by Guillermo Lande, by far my favorite poster/commenter on fighters.
He does use the term "fake", but I wholeheartedly agree with absolutely everything else he says. "Noway" is another commenter that accused me of either being "twelve or a grown man with issues" because of the stance I took with this article.
"Noway, as you’re calling yourself a grownup, you probably used to watch all the old Erol Flynn movies, no? Those were scripted, too, but they were fun. What about almost every single western ever made with overtly defined good and evil? Scripted but fun, no?
Why would you call someone that can appreciate the fun and melodrama of scripted good guy versus bad guy someone with issues unless you say the same of every novel, movie and play ever made?
I would propose to you that the adult with no issues would be the one that can appreciate differing tastes in other people without trying to insult them.
I enjoyed my fair share of fake wrestling back around 1985 or 1986 myself (back when I was 20ish) for the very reason it was overacted, dramatic and ridiculously fun. Sure I got tired of it (mostly after Macho man became a bad guy and some of the other guys drifted away), but I can still to this day understand why people would like it."
That's what it all boils down to, people. Not to get all mushy and all that, but at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.
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Sonnen
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Post by Sonnen on Apr 8, 2011 11:28:52 GMT -5
Really good article, mate. Amen to that. I've been a boxing fan since I was about 8 - I just don't get why so much of the (boxing) audience looks down on MMA. Remember that tirade that Bob Arum went on? Unbelievable. For me, this is the be all, end all Boxing vs. MMA video/debate/whatever. Joe Rogan, who's like the Godfather of MMA Knowledge, vs. Lou DiBella, who's an extremely successful promoter and father of Boxing After Dark on HBO. The video itself is just about 7 minutes of Joe Rogan legitimately trying to have an intelligent debate with DiBella, while DiBella acts like a pissed off 14 year old, making stupid faces and his best form or argument is to just try and detract in any form by insulting or attacking personally. It's embarrassing as a boxing fan. I almost turned red at about 3:07 when Rogan is putting Boxing over massively, and the guy chimes in with "YOU DON'T LIKE BOXING! NO YOU DON'T!" It was like watching a college professor argue with a member of this forum. OMG! That was  ing mint! Joe owned him! XD Personally, I never liked boxing, never enjoyed it, tried sitting down for a fight, but I got bored of it. But there is my Dad who enjoys both MMA and Boxing, no reason why you can't like both. Same goes for Pro Wrestling, PW is a different thing all together, I am a fan and a indy worker with in pro wrestling, but I still remain a massive fan of MMA. There is no reason why one group of people should take shots at another for what they like. They don't effect each other. And if pro wrestling dies like boxing has pretty much done, it's there own fault. |
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Squatch
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Post by Squatch on Apr 9, 2011 1:00:42 GMT -5
The three sports have the respective era's of the top of the prime time just like everything. Boxing was at its peak or coming close to it during Muhammad Ali's time and then Mike Tyson came in and Mayweather is currently there. I believe as the world grows and the technology, so does the sports. Back in the 80's and 90's Boxing and Wrestling was the top markets of the three sports here. The UFC had been started but it hadn't got the big pop it needed. Everyone around in this world knows that technology always is advancing and everybody's interest changes. Mixed Martial Arts came in and really struck once the new millennium came. The 2000's to present day has only started to show that people who were interested in Pro Wrestling and Boxing are consistently turning to MMA because it is more interesting and is real fighting of multiple styles. I think everything changes but MMA may be the right niche, but like everything times change. One day there could be an all new sport that is even more advanced than MMA. I think technology will change but the people in charge of the UFC will follow with technological advancements unlike some people have and they will keep the UFC as a long going sport that will transform with the fans. The WWE/F has always tried a little bit to try and move along with technology to keep fans satisfied but back when Vince went on the trial is when wrestling kind of took a downhill spiral. The WWE/F can't compete with a huge, uprising company such as the UFC or the sport of MMA in general. Boxing will never compete with MMA because they just are a thing of the past and will never be able to come back. MMA could eventually kill itself but I doubt it. But then again, I'm sure when the WWE and Boxing were at the peak(s) of the sports they were said to never hit downward spirals either. I love all three sports and believe they all are very entertaining and they provide a fun time to spend with family and friends, or just watch some plain, simple a*s kicking! There should definitely be no arguments because all sports have ups and downs plain and simple. Look at the NFL currently, and yes I know that no sport has had a problem like the NFL but it still shows how some things can work.
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Post by SteveHulk on Apr 9, 2011 16:56:57 GMT -5
For me, this is the be all, end all Boxing vs. MMA video/debate/whatever. Joe Rogan, who's like the Godfather of MMA Knowledge, vs. Lou DiBella, who's an extremely successful promoter and father of Boxing After Dark on HBO. The video itself is just about 7 minutes of Joe Rogan legitimately trying to have an intelligent debate with DiBella, while DiBella acts like a pissed off 14 year old, making stupid faces and his best form or argument is to just try and detract in any form by insulting or attacking personally. It's embarrassing as a boxing fan. I almost turned red at about 3:07 when Rogan is putting Boxing over massively, and the guy chimes in with "YOU DON'T LIKE BOXING! NO YOU DON'T!" It was like watching a college professor argue with a member of this forum. Wow... I haven't seen that before. It seems that a lot of boxing higher-ups view MMA fighters as no-talent "white guys with tattoos" and aren't really prepared to see any other point of view. It's kind of sad...  |
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Squatch
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Post by Squatch on Apr 9, 2011 17:09:48 GMT -5
Mayweather can be a good boxer but in the UFC he would get beat like a dog.
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Post by SteveHulk on Apr 9, 2011 17:47:23 GMT -5
Mayweather can be a good boxer but in the UFC he would get beat like a dog. ...to me, it's kind of a moot point: most world-class boxers would be fairly easily beaten in the UFC, under MMA rules - and likewise, most world-class MMA fighters would be beaten in a boxing ring, under boxing rules. Look at Randy Couture and James Toney for example - Couture easily beat Toney under MMA rules, but if you had them fighting in a boxing ring under boxing's rules, there'd only be one result. |
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Squatch
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Post by Squatch on Apr 9, 2011 17:55:03 GMT -5
I agree completely man. Everything is different when rules are different.
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