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Post by cordless2016 on May 29, 2011 19:07:35 GMT -5
We all know that the Invasion angle, which should have been the biggest angle of all time, flopped horribly and is considered one of the worst angles of all time. Basically, my question is, how would you have booked it? If you were in the exact same situation as Vince and like him, didn't buy out the contracts of the bigger stars to get them, what would you have done in the same situation.
Its sad that basically everybody from the WCW purchase were treated as garbage. Even w/ what he had, Vince could have made it work better than what he did. He could have easily made the Invasion much better IMO w/ what he had by following a few simple steps...
1) DDP and Booker T should have been treated as top stars, unlike how Vince jobbed them out to everybody. They should have been given a few clean wins over top WWF guys to show that they were threats. Vince claimed that he never had any of WCW's top stars, yet these two were top stars. Instead of jobbing them to WWF mid-carders, Vince should have treated them as top talent. DDP also should have come in w/ his insanely popular "Jersey-Guy" gimmick instead of the stupid "stalker" gimmick. Booker T should have also kept his serious gimmick from WCW, rather than adopting the stereotypical "uneducated-black man" gimmick the WWF gave him.
2) Austin should have never joined the Alliance. Seriously, we all knew how Austin felt about WCW in real life and how they treated him, so it made no sense at all that he'd join them. Instead, Vince should have sent guys like Jericho and Big Show to the Alliance. They were former WCW talent and it would have made much more sense for them to have switched sides. Plus it would have helped give them big pushes as well, considering that Jericho was about to get one anyway and
3) Treat ECW as a top brand. Seriously, all of the ECW guys were treated as even blew the WCW jobbers by Vince. Besides for RVD and the Dudley Boyz, everybody else was treated as crap. Mike Awsome is somebody who should have been pushed high up the card, yet was barely seen after his hardcore title win. Raven, who should have atleast have been a high-midcarder, was jobbing. Taz, who even though was a mmid-carder w/ the WWF for over a year, was seen as a jobber. Rhyno was the only ECW star besides RVD who sort of got a decent push but was seen as nothing more than a mid-carder.
4) Give the Alliance some clean wins. Seriously, what hurt them more than anything was that nobody from the Alliance, besides WWF guys who "jumped sides" got clean wins. Hell, Test was treated as more of a threat than anybody from WCW and ECW. Getting some clean and convincing wins would have helped this angle a ton.
Now obviously it still wouldn't have been what we all wanted from a WWF vs WCW feud, but I think that this Inagural Brawl would have been much better than what we got...
Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, Kane, Chris Jericho vs DDP, Booker T, Big Show, RVD, Mike Awsome
Then instead of having Austin turn on the WWF, it should have been Jericho. IMO it would have been much more entertaining.
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Post by mikey1974 on May 29, 2011 20:21:25 GMT -5
We all know that the Invasion angle, which should have been the biggest angle of all time, flopped horribly and is considered one of the worst angles of all time. Basically, my question is, how would you have booked it? If you were in the exact same situation as Vince and like him, didn't buy out the contracts of the bigger stars to get them, what would you have done in the same situation. Its sad that basically everybody from the WCW purchase were treated as garbage. Even w/ what he had, Vince could have made it work better than what he did. He could have easily made the Invasion much better IMO w/ what he had by following a few simple steps... 1) DDP and Booker T should have been treated as top stars, unlike how Vince jobbed them out to everybody. They should have been given a few clean wins over top WWF guys to show that they were threats. Vince claimed that he never had any of WCW's top stars, yet these two were top stars. Instead of jobbing them to WWF mid-carders, Vince should have treated them as top talent. DDP also should have come in w/ his insanely popular "Jersey-Guy" gimmick instead of the stupid "stalker" gimmick. Booker T should have also kept his serious gimmick from WCW, rather than adopting the stereotypical "uneducated-black man" gimmick the WWF gave him. 2) Austin should have never joined the Alliance. Seriously, we all knew how Austin felt about WCW in real life and how they treated him, so it made no sense at all that he'd join them. Instead, Vince should have sent guys like Jericho and Big Show to the Alliance. They were former WCW talent and it would have made much more sense for them to have switched sides. Plus it would have helped give them big pushes as well, considering that Jericho was about to get one anyway and 3) Treat ECW as a top brand. Seriously, all of the ECW guys were treated as even blew the WCW jobbers by Vince. Besides for RVD and the Dudley Boyz, everybody else was treated as crap. Mike Awsome is somebody who should have been pushed high up the card, yet was barely seen after his hardcore title win. Raven, who should have atleast have been a high-midcarder, was jobbing. Taz, who even though was a mmid-carder w/ the WWF for over a year, was seen as a jobber. Rhyno was the only ECW star besides RVD who sort of got a decent push but was seen as nothing more than a mid-carder. 4) Give the Alliance some clean wins. Seriously, what hurt them more than anything was that nobody from the Alliance, besides WWF guys who "jumped sides" got clean wins. Hell, Test was treated as more of a threat than anybody from WCW and ECW. Getting some clean and convincing wins would have helped this angle a ton. Now obviously it still wouldn't have been what we all wanted from a WWF vs WCW feud, but I think that this Inagural Brawl would have been much better than what we got... Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, Kane, Chris Jericho vs DDP, Booker T, Big Show, RVD, Mike Awsome Then instead of having Austin turn on the WWF, it should have been Jericho. IMO it would have been much more entertaining. i can agree with all that.....also,i thing the WCW titles shouldn't have carried over....the WCW guys should've proved themselves by winning WWF belts,showing they belonged,rather than bringing damaged WCW titles with them,which were won mostly by WWF guys anyway in most of the unification matches and such... i mean,at one point you had being defended on nearly every show: WWF Championship WCW World Championship WWF Intercontinental Championship WCW United States Championship WWF Tag Team Championship WCW Tag Team Championship WWF European Championship WCW Cruiserweight Championship WWF Light Heavyweight Championship WWF Hardcore Championship Jesus Christ! it felt like everyone who wrestled in the company held a belt at some point in 2001 !! also, they REALLY needed to make their own WCW show....Vince shouldn't havee got skittish and went ahead with the planned invasion of Smackdown ,and renamed it WCW Thunder again,with it's own WCW matches,announcers, and angles,and the occassional "Invasion" angle crossover match or angle....add the ECW guys to the WCW guys,and the defector's you mentioned like Big Show ( change him BACK to The Giant) and Jericho,the Dudley's,etc. and you would have enough people to do it properly... |
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Post by cordless2016 on May 29, 2011 20:41:30 GMT -5
I agree completly w/ the title thing. I was fine w/ the WCW World and US titles being brought to the WWF by Booker T, but the rest of the titles were just too much. I loved how when Mike Awsome debuted by winning the hardcore title. It made him look like a total badass and threat to the WWF guys, yet he went absolutly no where after that. Awsome is one of the guys who could have been pushed as a top star, yet Vince jobbed him out right away in favor of the shitty Test and other WWF mid-carders.
As for their own show, I think it would have been cool if they had taken over Smackdown for a few months, built up new stars, and then have a huge WWF vs WCW feud. This way, young guys like Sean O'Haire could have been built up huge before the feud. This would have also have given Vince more time to wait to sign guys like the nWo, Eric Bischoff, and Rey Mysterio before the feud. Triple H and Chris Benoit would have also been healthy by the time of the invasion and Eddie Guerrero would have been back as well. Imagine if you were watching Raw in early-2002, when all of a sudden Booker T, DDP, RVD, Chris Jericho, Big Show, Mike Awsome, Chris Benoit, and other "WCW" guys invaded the show, w/ Eric Bischoff and Paul Heyman leading the charge. Then a few weeks later the nWo showed up as a third faction. This would have been a HUGE money maker.
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Post by mikey1974 on May 29, 2011 20:52:59 GMT -5
the 2 biggest mistakes Vince made:
1) jobbing most of the Invasion guys out.... just turned them all into jokes...the absolute worst thing,though,was having Booker become basically a Rock-ripoff,then lose the World Title to the Rock at SummerSlam....
2) by not giving them their own show , he basically turned all the Invasion wrestlers into just another heel stable.... nWo-lite ....which is,you know,kinda bad when you're attempting to portray them as a rival organization....you know,a rival organization where that wrestles exclusively on YOUR shows and is made to look severely weak and like NO credible threat because they job out to YOUR stars on a weekly basis....
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Post by marino13 on May 29, 2011 21:15:27 GMT -5
Think you pretty much hit the nail on the head guys. All of these ideas would have been far better than what really happened.
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Post by K5 on May 29, 2011 21:55:52 GMT -5
i never would have allied wcw with ecw, as heyman hated most of wcw's work and it just didn't make sense.
it would be wcw vs. wwe with ecw constantly making a mess of things and having spontaneous brawls.
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Post by The Assassin on May 29, 2011 22:30:45 GMT -5
i agree with virtually all thats been said
it's pretty simple, Vince should have made WCW look like a threat, shown it respect and giving the promotion recognition for it's achievements. don't bring over too many titles, just world and maybe US. and try to keep the tried-and-tested gimmicks of the wrestlers, not just give them random new ones...
if Vince could have just put his ego aside, the WCW vs WWF storyline could have gone on for a very long time, easily over a year with the right planning and brought the biggest ratings in wrestling ever. the whole draft separation of Raw and Smackdown should have happened earlier and have one show WCW and one show WWF. bring in more ex-WCW talent, and Bischoff to lead WCW, and Vince to lead WWF. with the odd surprise defections here and there of course, as long as they made sense (ie WWF wrestlers defecting to WCW and returning to their old WCW gimmicks or vice versa, not just random defections or defections for the sake of it)
Then once that storyline has run it's course, bring in the nWo... and then bringing back ECW could be another possible way to keep viewers interest... and an nWo vs. D-X storyline would have been immense... there are so many possibilities i'm not even gonna try and list them here.
I could write a ton more on this stuff, I'm a massive WCW fan. but I don't really have time to write much more than this right now.
finally though, I always thought it would have been an awesome storyline to bring back nWo (Hogan, Hall, Nash), let them cause some trouble, then hype the return of D-X (HHH, Michaels, X-Pac) supposedly to take on nWo. BUT then in a big swerve... have the Outsiders turn on Hogan, with D-X joining in the beatdown, and announce the formation of "The Kliq" instead.
Hogan is free to become the Hulkster again and play to the fans, and we see a brand new spin on the nWo/D-X factions.
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Post by K5 on May 29, 2011 23:20:55 GMT -5
^ if only.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 23:30:41 GMT -5
The thing people seem to forget is by that point WCW was pretty much crap by the time it was sold, so why would Vince go out of his way to make then seem good? Remember this is WCW 2000 we're talking about, had it been WCW 1998 or 99 even, then it would have been booked differently. There was only so much the could do with what was left of a once prestigous promotion, all Vince did was put the final nail in the coffin.
Plus most of the guys we would have wanted to see were sitting the remainder of their contracts out, also why over saturate the audience with all these top names when you can just make enough money with them on individually.
Also ECW was could never be taken as serious, only very select few members could be taken as serious threats. (Taz's career ended early due to neck injuries)
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Post by BV on May 29, 2011 23:38:03 GMT -5
Don't really feel like writing a long response.
But, I would have WCW vs WWF vs ECW. Stone Cold defecting was stupid. Even if they didn't want to turn him face so quickly it made no sense to turn him against the WWF. Buy out all the important guys from each company, you'd make a profit with the sales you would get from the PPVs, so you wouldn't lose money buying them out.
Vinny Mac vs Heyman vs Bischoff, with the main guy from each being Stone Cold, Dreamer, and Goldberg.
I probably would of waited to start it too, to finish out the storylines that were occurring before it started.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on May 29, 2011 23:46:41 GMT -5
#1) I wouldn't have included ECW. Those guys had been with the WWE so long that it came off as phony and desperate.
#2) The NWO would have been Hogan, Nash, Hall, and Booker, period. Hall and Nash would have won the tag belts ASAP and defeated several big name teams. I would have set them up in long feuds with The Brothers of Destruction, The Dudleys, and eventually, DX.
#3) I would have had Hogan calling other WWE legends out of retirement in an effort to embarrass the company.
#4)- Booker T (the most recent WCW Champ) would have unified the WCW and WWE titles. He would have gone undefeated for several months, claiming this proved WCW was better, before dropping the belt to The Rock at Wrestlemania.
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Post by Jimmy on May 29, 2011 23:46:55 GMT -5
when you can just make enough money with them on individually. too bad they didn't. |
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Post by cordless2016 on May 30, 2011 0:18:35 GMT -5
The thing people seem to forget is by that point WCW was pretty much crap by the time it was sold, so why would Vince go out of his way to make then seem good? Remember this is WCW 2000 we're talking about, had it been WCW 1998 or 99 even, then it would have been booked differently. There was only so much the could do with what was left of a once prestigous promotion, all Vince did was put the final nail in the coffin. Plus most of the guys we would have wanted to see were sitting the remainder of their contracts out, also why over saturate the audience with all these top names when you can just make enough money with them on individually. Also ECW was could never be taken as serious, only very select few members could be taken as serious threats. (Taz's career ended early due to neck injuries) Vince could have easily bought out most of those contracts considering how popular the WWF was at that time. All he had to do was buy out Goldberg, Steiner, and Flair right away and it would have been enough to wait for Hogan, Nash, and Hall's contracts to expire to sign them at the end of the year. Had Vince done this and pushed Goldberg, Steiner, Booker, DDP, and Flair right, there is a really good chance Sting would have signed as well(he said he didn't sign because of how Vince burried Booker and DDP). Jeff Jarrett was also another top guy from WCW who's contract was actually aquired w/ the WCW purchase, yet Vince fired him right away becuase of their grudge. Say what you want about him, but Jarrett is a former WCW champion and is highly underrated(his Slap Nuts gimmick was over w/ the crowd). Any extra bodies could have helped w/ this angle, and Jarrett would have only helped the invasion. |
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Post by Burger Lad on May 30, 2011 1:26:31 GMT -5
The worst things I remember:
1) Combining ECW & WCW - keep them seperate!
2) Having the McMahons 'own' each brand (Vince WWF, Shane WCW, Steph ECW) - terrible idea!!
3) Austin join WCW/ECW!
4) ECW guys being buried.
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Post by hbkjason on May 30, 2011 5:19:27 GMT -5
While it is easy too look back now and say it was terrible I remember watching it as it happend and quite enjoyed it. Heel Austin was awesome he was such a  ing psycho lol, I enjoyed most of the angle to be honest would it have been better with Goldberg Sting and the other big name guys well yes it would have, but I still enjoyed what they did. My main complaint with the whole angle was that they never put the title on RVD at No Mercy even if it had just been for a couple of weeks I really think it would have pushed him to that next level. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2011 11:08:02 GMT -5
ok here goes 1)no Shane or Stephanie(its obscene that the billion $$ boobjob was in charge of ECW).Flair and Heyman please. 2)no Austin joining WCW.what an idiotic move that was.Rock,Austin,Undertaker and Angle leading the charge against the Invasion is what we all wanted. 3)in addition to treating DDP and Booker properly Steiner and Goldberg should have been brought in.those contracts were expensive but WWF in 2001 could have afforded it and the numbers would have told the tale-can you imagine the buyrate for Invasion 2001 with Austin & Rock vs Goldberg and Steiner? 4)he should have whittled down the numbers of the Alliance.they had large numbers of uninteresting peeps in both camps.a leaner more Dangerous looking force led by Flair and Heyman would have been twice as effective. 5)Jericho should have turned at Invasion-it would have been massive for him.they planned on turning him heel anyway-why not this massive platform. 6)i would have brought back Public Enemy to be part of ECW.PE vs The Hardys,Dudleys etc would have ruled all.but then again Vionces cronies the APA wouldnt have got a look in then. 7)a Steiner vs Angle program in 2001 would have blown us the away.Steiner hadnt got his drop foot then.....think about it. 8)I would have saved the one on one Austin vs Goldberg for WM18-yep I would have built it for that long-my Jesus we would have all crapour pants /waiting/watching that for sake. 9)I would still hold the nWo w/Bischoff back until 2002.I would hold it back until after WM when the Invasion was finally defeated though.then have them beat the shite out of Vince during his celebration the following night on Raw(same night as the official draft(this clearing the way for them).......then HHH and HBK could return HHH also had a massive impact on the invasion,nWo plans etc before his return. ah well.........I honestly feel Vince let too many people in his ear about this. |
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Post by mikey1974 on May 30, 2011 11:13:17 GMT -5
i mean,this should have been THE biggest angle and overall story in wrestling history! the 2 biggest wrestling companies going head to head....and,instead,it fell apart....it almost HAD to be on purpose...i mean, Vince and co. were riding a high that was going on 3+ years at that point,and were creatively firing on all cylinders,so i find it hard to believe they had NO good ideas when it came time to do the Invasion storyline...only thing i can think of is Vince flat-out refused to let any of the storylines show WCW as being superior to the WWF....and when you have that type of attitude,it's doomed to fail because NO one will be able to keep interest knowing that the other side hasn't got a chance,no matter how talented or over their wrestlers are... funnily enough,Flair DID say he was contacted by Jim Ross about coming in with this, by a phone call from JR in March or April of 2001 asking him "Are you ready to come back to work?" ....Flair said he was....then didn't hear from the WWF again until November....  |
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Post by Brad on May 30, 2011 12:55:37 GMT -5
I can't really argue with anything that's been said here. Seeing WCW have it's own show (taking over Smackdown) would have been so epic.
I kind of want to watch the invasion PPV now....may have to pop that dvd in today
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Post by mikey1974 on May 30, 2011 19:38:31 GMT -5
look at this list!!
Booker T
DDP
Ric Flair (RF WOULD have come! he wasn't officially contacted til Nov.!)
Lance Storm
Hugh Morris
Buff Bagwell
Billy Kidman
Kronic
Chavo Guerrero
Mark Jindrak
Sean O'Haire
"Sugar" Shane Helms
Mike Awesome
this is what COULD have started as the backbone of a McMahon-run WCW....and if just would've been willing to spend the money he could've got:
Goldberg
Scott Steiner
Kevin Nash
Scott Hall
Hulk Hogan
Rey Mysterio
Eric Bischoff
....as the veteran "buffers" to help the promotion on it's way with some serious firepower.... then,transfer over guys to their original WCW gimmicks....
"Lionheart" Chris Jericho
The Giant
...and you have one HELL of a roster to begin the new era of WCW with....ahve Heyman as head writer/booker,put NO creative control clauses in the talent's contracts,and we could've had something special....something that would go beyond a mere angle or faction,but potentially a VERY lucerative brand extension that could've kept running til today!! and you want to spice it up?! keep the Draft,just having wrestler go from one "organization" to another rather than a Brand...
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Post by cordless2016 on May 30, 2011 20:12:25 GMT -5
Add Jeff Jarrett to that list. His contract was apart of the WCW purchase and he would have only have added credibility to the group as another former world champ. Instead, we all saw how McMahon wouldn't put their grudge past them and fired him on screen for real.
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