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Post by spamdfms101 on Jun 1, 2011 15:49:38 GMT -5
I think the point is you like Khali and Otunga, have any of their matches ever 'enthralled' you? Ooops I said I'd stop reading this thread. I'm a scoundrel. I see what you're saying. No Otunga match has, but thats because hes barely had any matches. I mainly like him because I liked him on I love New York. And yes, I have enjoyed Khali matches. Mainly his title matches back in 07. I enjoy big powerful wrestlers like Khali.
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Post by wabarrett on Jun 1, 2011 15:50:49 GMT -5
I think the point is you like Khali and Otunga, have any of their matches ever 'enthralled' you? Ooops I said I'd stop reading this thread. I'm a scoundrel. I see what you're saying. No Otunga match has, but thats because hes barely had any matches. I mainly like him because I liked him on I love New York. And yes, I have enjoyed Khali matches. Mainly his title matches back in 07. I enjoy big powerful wrestlers like Khali. In which case, haterz can only hate.
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Post by Jimmy on Jun 1, 2011 17:47:48 GMT -5
I doubt The Great Khali even enjoys his own matches.
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Post by Flava Dave on Jun 1, 2011 17:49:19 GMT -5
Great Khali's mah *****.
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Post by jfinnomore on Jun 1, 2011 19:15:02 GMT -5
I doubt The Great Khali even enjoys his own matches. QFT As for those saying The Miz isn't over, idk what else the guy has to accomplish for people to respect or except he's a main eventer.
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Post by awesomeallamerican on Jun 1, 2011 21:41:38 GMT -5
Well I think you are WRONG and quite FRANKLY a complete IDIOT. 1. The Miz gets no reaction? That's just wrong. That's not even an opinion, it's just....wrong. 2. Flashes in the pan don't retain the WWE title in the main event of WrestleMania. You probably thought Triple H, Batista and John Cena were flashes in the pan too right? 3. You're right. Zack Ryder is over on the Internet. The Miz is over in an arena. There's the difference. 4. Most people in WWE don't draw by themselves. Most people don't buy a show JUST to see John Cena or JUST to see Randy Orton. They buy them due to a combination of factors or people. People do actually buy shows partially due to The Miz. People want to see him be shut up by guys like Cena and Orton, and even right now with Alex Riley. 5. Swagger got a pop because he turned on Michael Cole, who is over. Just like Riley is over because he's beating up The Miz. Simple as. Your theory is ridiculous. So if John Cena came out one week dressed as a rastafarian, riding a zorse and cutting a promo on taxes it'd be over just because it's unexpected? No, people would think it's ing stupid. Over. He's over. This guy is over. What is OVER? You guys come on this message board and throw around the term over like you know what it means. Everybody comes on and whoever they like is magically over! Over! Mark! Kayfabe! Wooo let's throw around wrestling terms and pretend like we're in the business! The bottom line is whoever is making money is over and a draw. Not who people on internet message boards have bro crushes on. Michael Cole and Miz are OVER! That's why both of them had their angles stopped like a truck hitting a brick wall. Retaining the WWE title in the main event of the most SILENT WWE title match ever at a Wrestlemania says nothing positive about the Miz to me. The crowd didn't make a sound until The Rock came out because that's why everyone was there and everyone bought the PPV because we THOUGHT there would be a confrontation between John Cena and the Rock. Nobody bought it for the Miz and if anybody did, they should get their money back because that was the worst WWE title match in the history of Wrestlemania. How can you come on here and tell people that they don't know what over means when you have no way of proving what over means based on your definition of it. You have no idea who makes money for the WWE. Have you been at WWE's corporate meetings? Has the WWE released some list that shows which wrestlers have made them what amount of money? I don't think so. One way of knowing is somebody is over is by the reaction they get. It's essentially tangible because it can be heard in experienced. I have no idea what WWE you've been watching, but The Miz is absolutely 100 percent over because he gets huge heel reactions. Saying that somebody is over because they make the WWE money is stupid because there's no tangible way of telling that somebody makes the WWE money. What if we say that merchandise sales constitute making WWE money? If we do that, then it's probably safe to say that Cena, Orton and Mysterio make the WWE money, and thus, by your logic, are over. If we're going to use that logic, however, you can't use your own personal bias to pretend like The Miz doesn't sell merchandise as well. I see plenty of people with Miz shirts. Obviously they don't sell as well as Cena or Orton, but they're faces so they have a huge advantage in that regard. Also, by this logic Zack Ryder would be over too because his only piece of merchandise, his shirt, continually sells out. It's safe to say that if the WWE put out more Zack Ryder merchandise, that would sell as well. In other words, if making the WWE money means somebody is over, then I guess a heel can never be over in your mind because the fans are trained to boo heels. What you don't seem to understand, though, is if the boos are loud and plentiful enough, then that heel is over.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jun 1, 2011 22:04:57 GMT -5
If Miz isn't over then why is Riley still being cheered for what he did to Miz? Yeah, can't be because of Miz's overness. Nope, had to be something creative did. Must have been piped in cheers or something. Faces can get over by playing a face role well, you missed that one out. Sure, it does show that Miz has really put his heel character across well, but you can't take anything away from Riley; he's been out there playing a face just two weeks and people are loving everything he says and does so far. What I'm saying is well done to Miz but he shouldn't take all the credit if Riley takes off as a face, Riley himself deserves praise too. Riley turned face with a rub from Miz. Riley turns face and just comes out and works as a face....does not get the same reaction. The Miz has NOTHING to do with why Alex Riley got a pop. JACK SWAGGER got a HUGE OVATION when he turned on Michael Cole that one night. The bottom line is anytime you do the opposite of what you normally do and the opposite of what the crowd expects you to do.....you're going to get a pop. Plain and simple. The Miz gets NO REACTION. His matches are terrible, his promos are nothing special, and he's a flash in the pan due to WWE lacking any other options at the time due to so many REAL Superstars being injured or not with the company anymore at the time of his title run. Like I keep saying. You guys need to realize the difference between being over on the INTERNET and over in the arena. The Miz vs. Zack Ryder for the Internet Championship at InternetMania would make a billion Internet dollars.....but neither one of them are ever going to actually draw for the WWE in real life. Nobody watches WWE just for the Miz or Zack Ryder, nobody buys a ticket to see a WWE event JUST to see the Miz or Zack Ryder, nobody buys a PPV just to see Miz or Zack Ryder's match, and nobody who doesn't currently spend money on WWE would start spending money on WWE if Miz or Zack Ryder on a more important part of the show. Like Vince McMahon says.....it's allllll about the monnnaaaayyyy. That's why Miz is in an angle with Alex Riley who's had like 5 matches in his life, and Zack Ryder hasn't had a match on RAW in months! I agree that people need to realize whats over in an arena and whats over on the net. However, Miz is OVER AT THE ARENA! Do you even goto live events? If you did, you would see the gradual increases. You said Swagger was getting a face pop cuz of his tease turn against Cole. THIS only proves my point. Cole is a heel thats even MORE over than Miz, which is disgusting...but thats another topic. Fact is...he is over. So someone who is horrid as Swagger can turn on a dime and get a pop just by interacting with Cole. Oh you've been watching a long time? Well, that beats any logical argument I can think of, I guess you're right then. Do you even know what you're talking about any more? Weren't you arguing that MIZ isn't over? Because you've just stated examples of people doing what RILEY did, and talking about how that got/would get a reaction... So let's look at these examples: We've got Swagger getting a reaction for turning on Cole, getting him a reaction, and we've got Tatsu turning on Cena. You say they got/would get big reactions. You know why? Because Swagger is turning on an EXTREMELY OVER HEEL, and Tatsu is turning on an EXTREMELY OVER BABYFACE, which is pretty much the exact thing that happened with Miz and Riley isn't it? So how about you pull out an example from your super-old-school-genius-wrestling-fan knowledge of say, Brooklyn Brawler attacking The Mountie and getting a monster reaction. This is me killing you're point. Kidd turing on Smith got a heel reaction for Kidd.....was Smith (dare I even say the word).....OVER? I said over again. I really am a........... BASTARD. Kidd got a reaction...VERY different from being over. DH Smith was over in the Hart Dynasty. Neither himself nor Kidd are over now as singles. Neither Kidd nor DH are on tv. This isnt the WWE where crowd determines who gets pushed and who doesnt.....thats in the hands of the bookers and Vince. F the crowd is the way they book. And honestly The Harts were more over as a team b/c of Bret Hart and not cuz of what they were doing, sadly. Call the spade a spade. This comes from a big Harts fan.
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Post by becausethenight on Jun 1, 2011 23:55:16 GMT -5
LOL at people saying that creative has nothing to do with the pops that Riley has been getting. It's not like they booked him to turn face in the fashion that he's been doing it, or booked Miz to treat him like garbage over the past few months.
I agree that people are cheering a guy beating up The Miz more than they're actually cheering for Riley himself, and that's because Miz is the most over heel on the roster right now, but that is also because creative has booked Miz magnificently over the past 18 months.
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MAtNESS™
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 11, 2007 11:57:03 GMT -5
Posts: 2,460
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Post by MAtNESS™ on Jun 2, 2011 0:25:03 GMT -5
LOL i swear Alex Riley reminds me of MR........................KE.....ANDERSONNNNNNNN! . on the feud i want miz to win and Riley still gets a pop for doing his best in beating Miz.
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Post by Hurricane on Jun 2, 2011 1:33:01 GMT -5
The Miz deserves no credit whatsoever. The Miz isn't the booker or the storyline writer. The Miz is a guy who got LUCKY that every top star in WWE left or got hurt at the same time (Batista, Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Triple H, Undertaker, etc). The Miz didn't get himself over as a legit anything except to males on internet message boards. Wins and losses are MEANINGLESS. In this business it's all about your performance....and at Wrestlemania, The Miz put on a poor poor poor poor poor performance. That match was terrible, and if a guy is going to be Champion he needs to be able to raise his game. Look at Triple H and Undertaker. They are two guys who can raise their game at a moments notice, and Undertaker with a half crippled body can still put on the match of the year when he's called upon. Same with Triple H. This should be abundantly clear by the fact that the company has decided to make R-TRUTH the number one contender instead of sticking with the Miz. Or the fact that a lot of people were tired of Miz/Cena. How on earth can you even compare Miz/Cena to Taker/HHH? Miz is WAY over, and he deserves a lot of credit for it. Many hated HHH, saying he slept his way to the top, etc. and also bitched about him constantly wanting the title and being a boring heel champion around 03-05. Not saying I agree with it, but I can see the similarities between him and Cena. Dont forget people hated The Rock at first, too.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Jun 2, 2011 13:15:51 GMT -5
The Miz is my favourite in WWE at the minute (apart from Punk, but he isn't really doing anything at the moment).
When I saw Riley in NXT I knew he had what it took and I'm glad they kept him around long enough for me to be proven right. He's going to be a great mid-card champion and minute now.
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