Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
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Post by Revvie® on Jun 4, 2011 11:13:34 GMT -5
saw his name and made me think of this video...haha
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DeadManFan92
Main Eventer
(39) Refs - (0) Pending
Joined on: Jan 28, 2011 20:41:05 GMT -5
Posts: 1,653
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Post by DeadManFan92 on Jun 4, 2011 11:35:01 GMT -5
Reagan should have been jailed or even executed for his role in Iran Contra. That's nonsense - Some of Reagan's cabinet went behind his back and sold weapons to the Contras and made Reagan take the blame. Reagan went on national tv and apologized for everything and took full responsibility. Reagan didn't have to do that, but he did. He showed that even though the President may not be at fault, he has to take responsibility for the actions of his cabinet. Now that is a what a true president should be.
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Post by slappy on Jun 4, 2011 11:59:34 GMT -5
Reagan should have been jailed or even executed for his role in Iran Contra. That's nonsense - Some of Reagan's cabinet went behind his back and sold weapons to the Contras and made Reagan take the blame. Reagan went on national tv and apologized for everything and took full responsibility. Reagan didn't have to do that, but he did. He showed that even though the President may not be at fault, he has to take responsibility for the actions of his cabinet. Now that is a what a true president should be. Didn't realize saying sorry meant you don't have to face the consequences. They made him take the blame? How did he not know? If he really didn't know then that is one incompetent man.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 4, 2011 12:06:03 GMT -5
How did he not know? If he really didn't know then that is one incompetent man. Exactly.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 30, 2024 10:36:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2011 12:25:56 GMT -5
It's not, but Alex Jones is someone who uses it as justification for conspiracy theories, by accusing basically everyone in the world of being in the new world order and hating the Constitution. Realistically speaking, a lot of the poop the government does right now is blatantly against the constitution. It's not a conspiracy theory, that's a fact. Fair enough, but Alex Jones takes it to the most extreme level with his delivery (I do like listening to his show though), much further than the "mainstream" Libertarians like Ron Paul, etc.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 5, 2011 1:51:16 GMT -5
Absolutely, I guess I just don't like that Constitutionalists are immediately lopped in with Conspiracy Theorists. Not just on this poll, but in a lot of things. It's ridiculous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 3:04:15 GMT -5
Absolutely, I guess I just don't like that Constitutionalists are immediately lopped in with Conspiracy Theorists. Not just on this poll, but in a lot of things. It's ridiculous. Respectable. Also though, any ideology, left or right, will usually claim itself to be Constitutional. I've heard people on the left argue that the Founding Fathers were socialists (that when they talk about liberties, and fighting the "forces that be" they mean both intrusive government and big business, and that democracy can not co-exist with capitalism, etc.), and of course Neo-Cons claim that they are Constitutional as well.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 5, 2011 4:36:53 GMT -5
I think Thomas Jefferson made it pretty clear...
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 30, 2024 10:36:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 9:50:46 GMT -5
I'm sure the far left would have a way to maneuver that around too though. Noam Chomsky, a brilliant linguist who I talk about a lot and has been writing about politics for decades (but I disagree with on a lot of political issues), is an anarcho-syndicalist and redepicts Jefferson and Adam Smith as being anti-capitalist. My guess is, in your first bold phrase, people of that mindset would say that "wasting the labors of the people," could be anti-capitalist because big businesses are wasting the labors of the people and underpaying them, by claiming they are still protecting them by providing them with a job in the first place.
And in the bottom phrase, while Libertarians would take into account the Federal Reserve as totally UnConstitutional, a leftist would say that the original Constitutionalists meant it as a shot at all wealthy and powerful capitalist bankers, and they'd say that the corrupt banking system in the U.S. now is evil overall simply because it is pro-capitalist and doesn't help out the proletariat ENOUGH; they see "big government," and "big business," as one in the same...therefore, the Founding Fathers, in their eyes, were hating on capitalism when they were hating on the concept of an intrusive government.
I definitely don't think the Founding Fathers were leftists/socialists, but everyone tries to claim to be Constitutional, just like every monotheistic major Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) claims to be the true religion of Abraham.
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Post by gordon on Jun 5, 2011 10:06:17 GMT -5
Soviet Communist.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Jun 5, 2011 15:14:13 GMT -5
Other - not a socialist, but probably more left than the American definition of moderate.
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Stimpson J. Cat
Mid-Carder
Bloated Sack of Protoplasm
Joined on: Jun 22, 2008 23:59:43 GMT -5
Posts: 101
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Post by Stimpson J. Cat on Jun 5, 2011 20:00:51 GMT -5
www.politicalcompass.org/testSo I took this test yesterday (no knowledge of this thread beforehand), and according to it I'm... left wing libertarian? Make sense? Basically, I'm in the same spot as Gandhi and Mandela, so I feel pretty good. Two very political people having a debate brought it up on another forum, so I'll guess it's somewhat legitimate.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 5, 2011 21:27:58 GMT -5
I'm sure the far left would have a way to maneuver that around too though. Noam Chomsky, a brilliant linguist who I talk about a lot and has been writing about politics for decades (but I disagree with on a lot of political issues), is an anarcho-syndicalist and redepicts Jefferson and Adam Smith as being anti-capitalist. My guess is, in your first bold phrase, people of that mindset would say that "wasting the labors of the people," could be anti-capitalist because big businesses are wasting the labors of the people and underpaying them, by claiming they are still protecting them by providing them with a job in the first place. And in the bottom phrase, while Libertarians would take into account the Federal Reserve as totally UnConstitutional, a leftist would say that the original Constitutionalists meant it as a shot at all wealthy and powerful capitalist bankers, and they'd say that the corrupt banking system in the U.S. now is evil overall simply because it is pro-capitalist and doesn't help out the proletariat ENOUGH; they see "big government," and "big business," as one in the same...therefore, the Founding Fathers, in their eyes, were hating on capitalism when they were hating on the concept of an intrusive government. I definitely don't think the Founding Fathers were leftists/socialists, but everyone tries to claim to be Constitutional, just like every monotheistic major Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) claims to be the true religion of Abraham. I'm sorry, but anyone who interprets this phrase any differently than the obvious that "too much" government is a bad thing... Is intellectually- disabled... "My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 30, 2024 10:36:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 7:00:02 GMT -5
I'm sure the far left would have a way to maneuver that around too though. Noam Chomsky, a brilliant linguist who I talk about a lot and has been writing about politics for decades (but I disagree with on a lot of political issues), is an anarcho-syndicalist and redepicts Jefferson and Adam Smith as being anti-capitalist. My guess is, in your first bold phrase, people of that mindset would say that "wasting the labors of the people," could be anti-capitalist because big businesses are wasting the labors of the people and underpaying them, by claiming they are still protecting them by providing them with a job in the first place. And in the bottom phrase, while Libertarians would take into account the Federal Reserve as totally UnConstitutional, a leftist would say that the original Constitutionalists meant it as a shot at all wealthy and powerful capitalist bankers, and they'd say that the corrupt banking system in the U.S. now is evil overall simply because it is pro-capitalist and doesn't help out the proletariat ENOUGH; they see "big government," and "big business," as one in the same...therefore, the Founding Fathers, in their eyes, were hating on capitalism when they were hating on the concept of an intrusive government. I definitely don't think the Founding Fathers were leftists/socialists, but everyone tries to claim to be Constitutional, just like every monotheistic major Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) claims to be the true religion of Abraham. I'm sorry, but anyone who interprets this phrase any differently than the obvious that "too much" government is a bad thing... Is intellectually- disabled... "My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." I can agree that that's stretching it and quite bizarre, but I'm just saying that those people do exist. Anarcho socialists/syndicalists, etc...they think that if government is being used to usher in socialism/communism, it's true democracy, and if it's being used to cause capitalism, it's government intrusion.
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Post by LeighD on Jun 6, 2011 8:23:38 GMT -5
This answer will sound totally contrived and hipster, but I prefer not to define myself into a specific group. I am my own man, capable of making my own decisions, and judging who I think is capable based on their own merits, not by what they identify themselves as, or what party they are affiliated with. Didn't know you could read minds too! Basically TRW said what I've felt for SO long. I do not need others thinking and acting for me. I hate to classify mysel finto any group as my feelings, views, and beliefs are across and the board and change depending on many factors. I stand by the candidate based on what I feel are the best plan and director necessary for the given time.
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