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Post by machoking on Aug 16, 2011 12:59:15 GMT -5
I personally think Mattel dropped the ball with the Legends, somewhat. The wrestlers they chose, some of them were just not the best pick for me. They choose to retail guys like, George Steele, Hillbilly Jim, Terry Freakin , Poka-dot Dusty Rhodes, Face Slaughter, Road Warriors (no pun intended, but LOD would have been better), the other Von erichs, Orndorff and the list goes on. None of the "real" legends have been released. Yeah there have been a few, but I dont think the line would be struggling if the likes of Andre the Giant (RETAIL), Hogan (I know, I know, about the TNA thing, but still), Goldberg, Razor Ramon, Yokozuna, Bret Hart (he returned to TV LAST YEAR for crying out loud) and More Stone colds were released. Dont start about the licensing stuff, most of these guys will eventually get made, so why not NOW. And whats up with the distribution. Collectors cant even get em all because thier just not out there like that. Mattel would rather push the BS basics and Flex Force, which in my opinion, is just a waste of store space. And then, snakes like Ringside come in and charge outragious prices for the stuff you cant find in the store smh. Your first sentance sums up this whole post. "To YOU". I can turn around an very easily say I love every Legend they released...And all were way more deserving than Goldberg. Calling Goldberg a Legend is using the term very loosely. And I'd take the Von Erich's, Road Warriors & Mr Wonderful over everyone you mentioned except for Bret and maybe Andre. ( Just an FYI there was plenty of great wrestling prior to the NWO, Austin & attitude era) As for FlexForce Mattel has already stated numerous times that it's their best selling WWE line. So yes they should just drop it because you or I don't like them. That makes sense. And yes RSC should just eat the added cost they pay to have it Air shipped overnight so we can get it sooner. And then you think they should also take a beating by not marking up the few figures in each series that will sell. Yet, I bet you are one of those guys who loves their sales 2 months later when they are selling the pegwrmers well below the retail prices. Seriously get a clue...they wouldn't be in business for a week if they did that. This whole post was pretty much a waste of 5 minutes of my time I'll never get back. *watches PJ's Karma disappear*
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speedlgt
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Oct 31, 2005 15:37:46 GMT -5
Posts: 178
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Post by speedlgt on Aug 16, 2011 12:59:52 GMT -5
@ ACE u missed the point the sub system is nothing more the black mail and since it has worked well for mattel due to fans commiment now they will most likely do everything in the same fashion and screw all of us in that process
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Aug 16, 2011 13:43:18 GMT -5
If you don't consider Terry Funk, Dusty Rhodes, Sgt. Slaughter, Paul Orndorff, or the Von Erichs "Real" legends, then you're a ing goof. They may be Legends, but they're not the sort of Legends you should be using in a toy line in 2011 unless you want that toy line to fail at retail and become an online collector exclusive within about a year and a half of it launching.
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WCW-Figure-Fan
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 28, 2002 22:38:39 GMT -5
Posts: 2,382
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Post by WCW-Figure-Fan on Aug 16, 2011 13:48:06 GMT -5
@ ACE u missed the point the sub system is nothing more the black mail and since it has worked well for mattel due to fans commiment now they will most likely do everything in the same fashion and screw all of us in that process Look, its okay for consumers not to be happy about the subscription system Mattel uses. There obviously are ways to that which would be more beneficial to collectors, but that doesn't make it "black mail". Not getting something just the way you want can be a bummer, but that doesn't necessarily make a travesty. In many ways, the subscription service does benefit consumers by giving collectors a way to ensure access to all releases. Subscriptions were designed as a response to collector complaints, not as a way to screw them. In many ways, its a win-win. Mattel can go into production knowing they have a certain number of figures pre-sold, and collectors can be relieved of the anxiety of trying to be among the first to order the limited quantity available. It doesn't mean some collector's needs aren't left unsatisfied. I'm bothered by the monthly shipping costs. Also, the sub exclusive figures are a double-edged sword as while they provide real benefits to subscribers, those are also toys walled off from non-subscribers. The MattyCollector exclusives are a challenge. On the one hand, its allowing Mattel to produce figures that would never get retail support but where there is a real collector market. On the other hand, it produces significant shipping inefficiencies for large volume collectors. I'd love to be able to walk into Toys R Us and just buy the figures I want, but I can't do that for their mass-produced figures, so I appreciate the dilemma.
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Post by tampatony on Aug 16, 2011 13:55:06 GMT -5
Guys, Listen, Ive been a fan since 88, and Im not saying that guys like Funk, Mr Wonderful ect are not Legends, they are just not Legends a mass audience is into to purchase. Go to TRU, how many Funks do you see? I see a bunch. Slaughter? Him and Polka-dot are the only series 1 you can still find in the stores. A good number of these Legends dont even appeal to toy collectors (maybe completionists). Im just simply saying that I think the caracter selection could have been better, and maybe, the line would still be in retail. And I KNOW ABOUT CONTRACTUAL STUFF, however, they should have been working a little harder to get the damn contracts for specific guys, like Earthquake, Dino Bravo, Boss Man, Yoko, Hell Id even like a Tugboat.
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Post by PJ on Aug 16, 2011 14:03:12 GMT -5
The only Legends I still see from pre-Series 3 are Funk, Stamboat and Sarge and that's because they were released in the regular Legends line then rereleased at the same time as the KMart HOF sets with nothing different about them except for a gold base and cardboard HOF plauqe. So they had that many more figures at retail then the others. And even with all them they were only the kMart HOF figures that are still around here. All of Series 1 & 2 are long gone from my area TRU's. And the 3 Target stores only had a bunch of Funk & Rude figures left up until this last reset. (My 2 area WalMarts never carried Legends) And again I think that was because half of Series 1 & 2 were released within weeks of each other in the HOF set with no real changes to the figures.
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speedlgt
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Oct 31, 2005 15:37:46 GMT -5
Posts: 178
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Post by speedlgt on Aug 16, 2011 15:21:44 GMT -5
my question to all is how does HASBRO not have problems keeping lines like starwars transformers and gi joe GOing 25 years PLUS and they dont need some type of sub service to ensure they will have a profit from a line!
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Post by Ruby Fusion on Aug 16, 2011 15:31:42 GMT -5
Their only goof up was distribution! They should've been available worldwide!!!
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WCW-Figure-Fan
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 28, 2002 22:38:39 GMT -5
Posts: 2,382
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Post by WCW-Figure-Fan on Aug 16, 2011 16:48:37 GMT -5
my question to all is how does HASBRO not have problems keeping lines like starwars transformers and gi joe GOing 25 years PLUS and they dont need some type of sub service to ensure they will have a profit from a line! I'm sorry, are you serious? Hasbro IS doing a GI Joe subscription plan. It follows years of having a paid collector's club with exclusive figures. They also support a club with exclusive figures for Transformers. Never mind that you are equating a sub-line for WWE figures with the entire line of other major properties. The WWE line is active at retail from Mattel and will be for the foreseeable future. Legends was a specialty line that lost retail support. Market saturation from Jakks probably didn't help as they were losing retail support for the Classic Superstars themselves before the licenses flipped to Mattel. I can assure you, there are sublines of Transformers, GI Joe, and Star Wars that were discontinued or shifted to an exclusive only format.
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Post by PJ on Aug 16, 2011 16:52:18 GMT -5
I actually saw new Joe product at TRU & Target. Both stores had new 12" figures and TRU also had the 3.75" figures. But that's neither here or there when talking WWE Legends.
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bigraj
Main Eventer
PSN: bigraj70501
Joined on: Nov 5, 2010 16:46:40 GMT -5
Posts: 1,779
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Post by bigraj on Aug 16, 2011 16:58:50 GMT -5
The only thing you said that I truly disagree with is that LOD should've been used over the Road Warriors. I think they were much better known as the Road Warriors Maybe in Japan, or among 40-50 year olds from the southern states of the US. And neither Japanese folks nor 50 year olds from Georgia are the main market for a toy line. For every other demographic, Hawk and Animal are far more famous as the Legion of Doom. The were only known strictly as the Legion of Doom during their short time in WWF. They were a big-time tag team draw in more than just the South and Japan, and plenty of people under 40 know them better as The Road Warriors.
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Deleted
Joined on: Jun 11, 2024 3:24:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2011 16:59:34 GMT -5
If you don't consider Terry Funk, Dusty Rhodes, Sgt. Slaughter, Paul Orndorff, or the Von Erichs "Real" legends, then you're a ing goof. They may be Legends, but they're not the sort of Legends you should be using in a toy line in 2011 unless you want that toy line to fail at retail and become an online collector exclusive within about a year and a half of it launching. If you want to look at it that way. The only legends figures that should be released in 2011 are Hogan, Austin, Rock, HBK, and Bret Hart. Kids won't buy random guys like Yokozuna, DDP, Razor Ramon, Savio Vega, etc. just as much as they wouldn't buy guys like Hillbilly Jim, Jimmy Snuka, Akeem, etc. Kids aren't going to want figures they haven't really seen on TV enough over the years. And even if they did, most parents won't drop that much money on just one action figure. The only thing Mattel should have done is cut back on shipments just a bit.
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Post by squaredcircleactionfigs on Aug 16, 2011 17:17:48 GMT -5
Ya I never got why they put the von erichs in a sinking series, they should have put the rockers in series 6 instead of kerry + kevin. Rockers, warrior, tornado, guerrero. Would have been better I am a little late on the button but I think the decision to include the Von Erichs in Legends 6 was made to x them out of the roster. The genesis of the decision could have been contractual or due to lack of demand for this era. For example, Mattel pays the Von Erichs estate X if X number of figures are not produced. Or, Matel decides these characters are not in high demand and releases them in limited quantities. Either way, it is a win-win situation for Mattel. Keep in mind, this is only a hypothetical statement. Overall, I agree Mattel's character selection was poor for a mass retail market. Did professional wrestling exist before 1988? Yes, but look at the TV ratings, ppv buys, event attendance, etc. post 1988 and it is safe to say there was a greater world and national audience during the late Golden Age, Attitude Era, Nitro Era, etc. then the NWA, WCCW, WWWF etc. eras. The statistics prove it thus making characters from these eras more known and higher in demand. It is that simple.
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Post by jfinnomore on Aug 16, 2011 17:29:08 GMT -5
my question to all is how does HASBRO not have problems keeping lines like starwars transformers and gi joe GOing 25 years PLUS and they dont need some type of sub service to ensure they will have a profit from a line! the same way Mattel does Barbie for the past 60 years, just cause a line keeps going doesn't mean all the sub lines succeed, SW, Transformers, and Joe all have had sub lines that tanked, just like WWE's legends.
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Deleted
Joined on: Jun 11, 2024 3:24:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2011 17:34:47 GMT -5
Ya I never got why they put the von erichs in a sinking series, they should have put the rockers in series 6 instead of kerry + kevin. Rockers, warrior, tornado, guerrero. Would have been better Did professional wrestling exist before 1988? Yes, but look at the TV ratings, ppv buys, event attendance, etc. post 1988 and it is safe to say there was a greater world and national audience during the late Golden Age, Attitude Era, Nitro Era, etc. then the NWA, WCCW, WWWF etc. eras. The statistics prove it thus making characters from these eras more known and higher in demand. It is that simple. Wow. You are ing clueless aren't you. Of course PPV buyrates and TV ratings were higher after 1988 or what the ever year because....THERE WAS HARDLY ANY PPVS UP UNTIL THE LATE 80s. And almost no one cared about TV ratings until the mid 90s. Wrestling was HUGE before all the territories died off. World Class drew, AWA drew, JCP drew, GCW drew, CWF drew, Mid-South drew, WWF drew, Memphis drew. It has nothing to do about whether one era of wrestling was bigger than the other, it's about most fans today are ignorant about the history of wrestling and they think that any time before they started watching consisted of a bunch of no named guys that made no impact in the sport.
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hitman1072
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 9, 2005 1:43:07 GMT -5
Posts: 1,495
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Post by hitman1072 on Aug 16, 2011 17:37:09 GMT -5
Ugh...the ignorance I have seen expressed when discussing the WWE Legends line is incredible. 6" collector figures are absolutely dying at retail. The villain we all have to look at here is the economy. There isn't one person on here that has come up with a line-up that I liked more than what Mattel gave us. To those guys continually posting that they "know" this will sell, or that will sell...you have no idea what you are talking about. There are many who post here, and others who have never posted on an Internet forum who absolutely love what Mattel gave us, and would rather die than buy Legends from the attitude, New Generation, and other eras. In this current economic climate, a wrestling Legends line simply isn't viable at retail no matter what line-ups there may have been. If Mattel told us we would have been getting guys like the Ultimate Warrior, Macho Man, the Von Erichs, Steamboat, Mr. Perfect, The Road Warriors & Hart Foundation versions of Pillman & Bulldog...most of you would have said how great that sounds. Now we just have a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks who think they actually have a clue. Did professional wrestling exist before 1988? Yes, but look at the TV ratings, ppv buys, event attendance, etc. post 1988 and it is safe to say there was a greater world and national audience during the late Golden Age, Attitude Era, Nitro Era, etc. then the NWA, WCCW, WWWF etc. eras. The statistics prove it thus making characters from these eras more known and higher in demand. It is that simple. Wow. You are ing clueless aren't you. Of course PPV buyrates and TV ratings were higher after 1988 or what the ever year because....THERE WAS HARDLY ANY PPVS UP UNTIL THE LATE 80s. And almost no one cared about TV ratings until the mid 90s. Wrestling was HUGE before all the territories died off. World Class drew, AWA drew, JCP drew, GCW drew, CWF drew, Mid-South drew, WWF drew, Memphis drew. It has nothing to do about whether one era of wrestling was bigger than the other, it's about most fans today are ignorant about the history of wrestling and they think that any time before they started watching consisted of a bunch of no named guys that made no impact in the sport. Excellent!
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Post by squaredcircleactionfigs on Aug 16, 2011 18:09:01 GMT -5
Did professional wrestling exist before 1988? Yes, but look at the TV ratings, ppv buys, event attendance, etc. post 1988 and it is safe to say there was a greater world and national audience during the late Golden Age, Attitude Era, Nitro Era, etc. then the NWA, WCCW, WWWF etc. eras. The statistics prove it thus making characters from these eras more known and higher in demand. It is that simple. Wow. You are ing clueless aren't you. Of course PPV buyrates and TV ratings were higher after 1988 or what the ever year because....THERE WAS HARDLY ANY PPVS UP UNTIL THE LATE 80s. And almost no one cared about TV ratings until the mid 90s. Wrestling was HUGE before all the territories died off. World Class drew, AWA drew, JCP drew, GCW drew, CWF drew, Mid-South drew, WWF drew, Memphis drew. It has nothing to do about whether one era of wrestling was bigger than the other, it's about most fans today are ignorant about the history of wrestling and they think that any time before they started watching consisted of a bunch of no named guys that made no impact in the sport. First, I am not clueless and not a current fan. You my friend are the one who is clueless because you cannot even define my argument! Let me clarify some points for you. I am not questioning the impact anyone made on anything. I am questioning whether wrestling figure characters from pre-1988 are more popular or higher in demand then wrestling figure characters from post-1988. I do not think this to be true for the reasons I expressed above and below. Now lets get back on topic. I disagree with your assessment of the situation. IT IS ABOUT WHICH ERA WAS BIGGER. Demand drives sales. Period! One can thus conclude, if the professional wrestling audience from 1988-2001 was greater than the audience post 1988, the demand for figures of characters from this era could be higher. For example, the greater the pool of consumers familiar with these characters. The greater chance these consumers will purchase a figure of one of these characters. I do not deny wrestling existed before the 80's and I agree it was widely watched nationally. What I was trying to convey is with the advent of PPV and TV professional wrestling took on a larger market thus a larger audience. That is a fact! Obviously, a more intelligent person as yourself would then agree characters such as Yokozuna, Ultimate Warrior, Goldberg, Bret Hart, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, NWO, etc. would be more widely known then characters such as Magnum TA, Kevin Von Erich, Don Muraco, Ivan Koloff etc. Because of this, these figures have a better chance for a higher demand than the later. My argument stands firm. hitman1072 brings up a good point. Character selection is not the only reason the line failed. There are a plethora of other reasons for its demise including the economy. However, none of us on the board can weigh which reason is greater. I am just presenting my argument for character selection.
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Post by mrhoss on Aug 16, 2011 18:37:28 GMT -5
Just a little note on the Von Erichs: In 2009 the WWE did think well enough of them to include in their HOF ceremony and release a DVD. Plus they never had a Jakks release.
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Post by squaredcircleactionfigs on Aug 16, 2011 18:57:19 GMT -5
Just a little note on the Von Erichs: In 2009 the WWE did think well enough of them to include in their HOF ceremony and release a DVD. Plus they never had a Jakks release. The recognition was well deserved since the Von Erich Family is one of the most prestigious wrestling families in professional wrestling history. I will probably pick up a Kerry Von Erich figure even though I never saw him as himself except on youtube. If Legends Series 6 ever hits retail!
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mrassbillygunn
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jul 23, 2011 19:35:48 GMT -5
Posts: 4,267
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Aug 16, 2011 19:04:02 GMT -5
I can sense where your coming from and i had my doubts concerning the legends line before i started to pick them up but im really glad i did in the end. They really do look awesome when they are all displayed together and i was pleased with who they put out, my favourites being from series 6 i just wish i could get my hands on them lol. The likes of hillbilly jim, akeem and the bush whackers we could have done without but for the most part im pleased.
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