nibs92
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 29, 2008 5:47:21 GMT -5
Posts: 2,344
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Post by nibs92 on Aug 17, 2011 16:40:04 GMT -5
Been watching some old footage and came across these guys!
can't really remember them from the time but looking at them now how did the WWF expect to pass these guys off as the real thing?
They look nothing like Nash and Hall.
What are you guys thoughts on this?
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Post by Double J on Aug 17, 2011 16:45:35 GMT -5
It was more of an excuse to turn Jim Ross heel and rub it in Nash and Halls face that they still owned the Razor and Diesel character and could do whatever they wanted with it than trying to pull the wool over any ones eyes.
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nibs92
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 29, 2008 5:47:21 GMT -5
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Post by nibs92 on Aug 17, 2011 16:47:11 GMT -5
oh right i didn't realise that!
did they have any success?
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Post by Double J on Aug 17, 2011 16:55:12 GMT -5
A VERY minor amount of success. They got a tag title shot at an In Your House, but the whole JR heel story and their story ended so quickly it didn't matter.
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Post by Chris Hammers on Aug 17, 2011 19:19:05 GMT -5
Thank christ it didn't work out, we might never have got Kane.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Aug 17, 2011 20:35:52 GMT -5
Thank christ it didn't work out, we might never have got Kane. Exactly. That was Glen Jacobs' final gimmick before they gave him Kane. And considering his gimmick before Fake Diesel was Isaac Yankem DDS, he was probably one more failed gimmick away from totally blowing his long-term chances in WWE. Luckily, the Kane gimmick seems to have a bit of staying power.  |
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jasonphoenix1
Main Eventer
Just when you think you know the answers. I change the questions!
Joined on: Feb 16, 2011 2:37:31 GMT -5
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Post by jasonphoenix1 on Aug 17, 2011 20:42:36 GMT -5
Rick Bognar was known in FMW as Big Titan before he became the Fake Razor Ramon. He teamed with Mike Awesome. After leaving the WWF he went back for a few years.
And yes thank god Fake Diesel did not work. Kane was a huge dominant character that has worked out so well.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 17, 2024 21:38:29 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 4:21:15 GMT -5
dreadful idea......just dreadful.typical example of a Mcmahon idea that he thought was great and everyone else thought was crap.
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Aug 18, 2011 8:20:20 GMT -5
Thank christ it didn't work out, we might never have got Kane. Exactly. [glow=red,2,300]That was Glen Jacobs' final gimmick before they gave him Kane.[/glow] Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. That is NOT the final gimmick he had before becoming Kane. Just prior to being repackaged as Kane, the WWF actually sent both the Fake Razor and Diesel to USWA, which was pretty much their developmental territory at the time. They used those gimmicks for a short while until The Fake Razor changed his name to "Free Spirit" Rick Titan and Fake Diesel became Doomsday!! I knew I had a rare match on an old tape which featured Doomsday and I just got done transferring it to DVD and uploaded it to my Youtube account. And here it is. Doomsday makes his USWA debut in a RARE match with Nick Dinsmore. Enjoy!! |
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Post by Boy Wonder on Aug 18, 2011 8:26:28 GMT -5
Nick Dinsmore? Geez, I never realized he's be wrestling that long
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Raine
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 8, 2006 12:11:52 GMT -5
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Post by Raine on Aug 18, 2011 8:45:59 GMT -5
I hope Bill Eadie doesn't see that Youtube footage, he'll be wanting some money for gimmick infringement. Demolition rip off or what?
Another reason Vince bought them back, which isn't too well known is, when the WWF filed a court order against WCW. They claimed that Nash & Hall were portraying Diesel & Razor on WCW TV or were very similar, the court wanted to know why there was a such a big problem when the characters Razor Ramon & Diesel weren't being used by the WWF anymore, hence Vince bringing the characters back fo a few months. It was also to try & stick it to Hall & Nash as said above.
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jason1980s
Main Eventer
Joined on: Sept 30, 2009 14:58:56 GMT -5
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 18, 2011 8:47:50 GMT -5
Razor Ramon II didn't even come out to entrance music at the 1997 Royal Rumble, shows how important he was and was elminated rather quickly. Diesel II was in the final four or five and as usual big men enter late was touted as a possible winner. Don't think they last much longer after that.
I do think WWF was responsible for the success of Nash and Hall, it's just too bad for WWF the 2nd Diesel and Razor couldn't get over. It's probably the talent of Hall and Nash that put them over the top with those characters because it's not like they did much to get over Diamond Studd, Vinnie Vegas or OZ.
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Post by marino13 on Aug 18, 2011 17:02:41 GMT -5
Exactly. [glow=red,2,300]That was Glen Jacobs' final gimmick before they gave him Kane.[/glow] Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. That is NOT the final gimmick he had before becoming Kane. Just prior to being repackaged as Kane, the WWF actually sent both the Fake Razor and Diesel to USWA, which was pretty much their developmental territory at the time. They used those gimmicks for a short while until The Fake Razor changed his name to "Free Spirit" Rick Titan and Fake Diesel became Doomsday!! I knew I had a rare match on an old tape which featured Doomsday and I just got done transferring it to DVD and uploaded it to my Youtube account. And here it is. Doomsday makes his USWA debut in a RARE match with Nick Dinsmore. Enjoy!! I always thought Doomsday was before he was Issac. Found this on Wikipedia: |
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Post by becausethenight on Aug 18, 2011 17:08:00 GMT -5
I hope I don't anger anyone when I say this... but holy cow USWA was freaking terrible. SMW too.
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Post by tnafan17: The Total Package on Aug 18, 2011 17:47:09 GMT -5
Definitely one of the worst ideas ever.
Especially the fake Razor....he stunk up the joint.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 18:46:07 GMT -5
as Razor Ramon-Scott Hall was over like rover.one of the most charismatic performers ever and hall kept adding to Razor as he went.........look at his entrance at WM10-that reeked of cool and he improvised it,Hall was meant to move the ladder instead he did waht he did and looked great doing it.
for Mcmahon to think someone else could succeed in the role was insanity
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Aug 18, 2011 23:51:44 GMT -5
^ Nope. He was definitely Doomsday just before being repackaged once again as Kane in 1997. He won the USWA Heavyweight title as Doomsday in 1997 by beating Brian Christopher.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Aug 19, 2011 9:26:55 GMT -5
^ Nope. He was definitely Doomsday just before being repackaged once again as Kane in 1997. He won the USWA Heavyweight title as Doomsday in 1997 by beating Brian Christopher. So the Doomsday gimmick was created BEFORE Fake Diesel or Kane, and he briefly reprised the gimmick between his original runs as Fake Diesel and Kane. So I guess I should have written his last "non-reprisal" gimmick before he became Kane. Which means I wasn't totally clear, but yes, I COULD have been "more wrong."  |
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Aug 19, 2011 11:09:30 GMT -5
^ Man, you just aren't getting it. The Doomsday character was created AFTER his brief run in the USWA as Fake Diesel.
Fake Razor and Diesel went to USWA and wrestled for a bit under those gimmicks. Razor kept using that gimmick for a while but changed his name to "Free Spirit" Rick Titan and Fake Diesel changed to Doomsday and kept that gimmick before coming back to the WWF as Kane at Badd Blood 1997.
So, you were wrong when you said Fake Diesel was his final gimmick before they gave him Kane. His final gimmick before becoming Kane was clearly Doomsday. I've provided clear proof of that.
Here's another vid I posted on my Youtube account.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Aug 19, 2011 14:39:53 GMT -5
^ Man, you just aren't getting it. The Doomsday character was created AFTER his brief run in the USWA as Fake Diesel. No, it wasn't. Doomsday was created in 1994. He used it again, briefly, in 1997, but it was absolutely, 100% created years before that. It may have been created as early as 1993, since he was clearly working shows under the Doomsday gimmick in January 1994. ************* From the Wrestling Observer Newsletter issue dated Jan. 17, 1994: 1/7 Indianapolis (Championship Wrestling from Indiana): Kevin Haste b P.C. Austin, Mad Man Pondo b Sean Casey, Doomsday (Glen Jacobs) b Flash Flannagan, American Eagles b Bar Room Brawlers, Mike Samples b Dan Anderson ***************** Wrestling Observer Newsletter -- Feb. 21, 1994: 1/29 Indianapolis (Championship Wrestling from Indiana): Flash Flannagan b San Francisco Kid, Mad Man Pondo b Sgt. Sherman Tank, California Dude b Doomsday (Glen Jacobs)-DQ, Bar Room Brawlers b The Collegiates, Barbed wire match: Danny Anderson b Mike Samples
2/4 Indianapolis (Championship Wrestling from Indiana): Flash Flannagan b San Francisco Kid, Bounty Hunter b P.C. Austin, Sean Casey b Iranian Assassin, Mad Man Pondo b Danny Anderson, Doomsday b Mike Samples-DQ, American Eagles & Mike Wilson b Bar Room Brawlers & Bill Halten, Doomsday won Choose your weapon Battle Royal
2/5 Indianapolis (Championship Wrestling from Indiana): Flash Flannagan b The Medic (Doug Basham), Danny Anderson b Mad Man Pondo-DQ, The Collegiates b Bar Room Brawlers, Baseball bat match: Doomsday b Mike Samples, Anderson won blindfold Battle Royal
2/11 Indianapolis (Championship Wrestling from Indiana): Flash Flannagan b San Francisco Kid, Danny Anderson b Mad Man Pondo, Loser leaves town: Mike Samples b Doomsday, Loser leaves town: Bar Room Brawlers (Doug Vines & Pondo) b American Eagles (Jerry Faith & Kevin Haste) *************** Wrestling Observer Newsletter -- May 16, 1994: 5/6 Arecibo, PR (WWC): Doomsday (Glen Jacobs) b Cyclone, Sargento Rios b El Exotico, Pulgarcito b Tahitian Warrior (Lloyd Anoia), La Ley & Sasha b Mohammad Hussein (Lou Fabbiano) & La Tigra, Carlitos Colon b Hurricane Castillo-DQ, Whip on pole match: Dutch Mantel b Invader #1 (Jose Gonzales), Bruise Brothers DCOR El Bronco & Rey Gonzalez
5/7 Trujillo Alto, PR (WWC): Cyclone b El Exotico, La Ley b Tahitian Warrior-DQ, Doomsday b Sargento Rios, Pulgarcito b Don Harris-DQ, Carlitos Colon b Ron Harris-DQ, WWC tag title: Hurricane Castillo & Mohammad Hussein b Invader #1 & El Bronco, Universal title: Rey Gonzalez b Dutch Mantel-DQ ****************************** Not only did the Doomsday gimmick come BEFORE (as in, over two years before) the Fake Diesel gimmick, it also predated the Isaac Yankem DDS gimmick in the WWF AND the Unibomb gimmick he worked in Smoky Mountain. In fact it looks like Glenn Jacobs was working the gimmick before he even debuted in the USWA for his first stint in 1994 (let alone his SMW or WWF/E runs). |
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