WF Survivor 3: WINNER REVEALED; PAGE 52!

BulletClub4Life -- I don't really have anything significant to say about you (not an insult) since we didn't really interact all that much. But I do want to know if you have any regrets with your actions in the game?


@mintz -- We've already had this conversation and since we need that one jury member who sounds 'bitter', I still don't recall you ever answering what made you go from aligning with me from virtually day 1 when I formed our main 5 (You, me, M, Jefe, Tiger) and it turning from actually being loyal to just BS'ing me into thinking "If she needs help, I'll give it to her, so I'll do the same.", especially when I knew you were voting for me. It's not your fault you didn't know about Tiger's antics before, but once I told you what he could do, why still trust him over me, when point blank I've said no a couple times when asked if votes should be put your way? I even was sincere that if something happened I would be OK having us in the finals, remember that.


Mike Bockwinkel -- How the hell you did this two ing times in a row, I have no clue, but congrats I guess, especially since you've gotten someone to help you seem like the good guy when you're anything but when playing these games. If it's not evident at this point, myself, Tiger and Jefe are friends. We''ve known each other since 2009-ish (as far as I can personally remember) as we also are on a different forum and actually I help convince to an extent both of them to join WF and to their credit, they did (it's no secret this place isn't the most friendly at times -- our other forum has it's problems too, but WF is special in that regard (warning bar was still BS, just saying )).

Anyway, I've hosted 3 games on that forum (2 in the past, 1 current); Jefe won my first one, SuperTiger won the second one (as it just happened to be, no trickery on my part). But it was the second game that caused some funny business; that second game was Survivor. Jefe and Tiger were aligned and it seemed they were going to be in the finals together. But, during the final challenge, Jefe had real life business to take care of and wasn't really able to turn in scores like he usually did. As in turns out, Chief gets voted out and Tiger ends up winning. Tiger apologizes vehemently and seems to feel bad about it.

Come a game we all participated in on the other forum, Endurance. None of us got the opportunity to team up together, but we had a mutual agreement we'd be final three if we could. However, myself and Jefe made an agreement for us to be the final two teams, before we made our agreement with Tiger as he had a partner neither of us were really fond of. Fast forward a bit, I was eliminated by Tiger's team and due to a certain advantage, virtually had no chance. However, I get the opportunity to come back with a different partner and we end up winning and having to send two teams to the game's elimination challenge.

One team was already locked in because they were the team who sent myself and my new partner to our respective initial eliminations. The only other two teams I could send was either Jefe or Tiger. Sending Jefe could have been a benefit, but so would sending Tiger. At the end, myself and my partner send Tiger, because I wanted to keep our agreement intact. Needless to say, that decision wasn't popular and I was told by both teams that sent me I would not receive their help because I stayed LOYAL to the person I wanted to be from day 1 during that game. But the catch about that was, Jefe wasn't sent up by the same people who gave me crap for me not sending him up, so there was clear dare I say hypocritical actions going on there. To be fair, Tiger never won the opportunity to send a team up, nor did they have a choice in using that advantage, it was forced upon them. However, to criticize me for staying loyal when he didn't to Jefe in a previous game seem sketchy to me.

Long story short, myself and Jefe became the final two teams (and humorously, the game essentially died due to the ineptness of the host, so we'll probably never know which of us would have won after all).

We fast forward to when Survivor was announced here. I notified Jefe and Tiger and they sign up and if I recall correctly I said something along the lines of "It's automatic us three are in an alliance?" There was unanimous agreement and since numbers are better, I added Mintz and M when we were split into the groups and Jefe and Tiger were Green and myself, Mintz and M were Blue. Everything seemed to go well, a couple slips here and there but there seemed to be an understanding that at best case scenario it would be myself, Jefe and Tiger in the finals and that no BS would come between us. Then, Tiger suddenly starts getting paranoid. He's making myself and Jefe seem hesitant because we've seen this before, but ultimately we figured he would cool and Tiger even said to me when I heard that he was considering taking me out and I confronted him "I hope you realize, you me and Jefe are final 3". I even helped vote out M (sorry about that, but it was going to happen eventually, just sooner than later) to see where his loyalties were because M wanted Tiger gone. Too bad he must have forgotten about that.

Other semantics aside, I start noticing votes for me, which was a bit odd considering the numbers. Tiger nearly gets voted out and I'm as concerned because even with doubts, I was willing to push them aside. Here's why:

- Tiger already screwed Jefe at one point, I didn't think he would do it again
- Tiger realized he was odd man out in Endurance and we agreed if we got the opportunity in a different game, we'd be in a final ourselves to balance it out (and as so happened to be, this had a final three, made it even better)...or did you forget about that Tiger?
- We agreed before the game started and the only way I wasn't going to think about anything else was if one of us was gone via none of us able to stop it

Then, I decide to play my idol after considering the situation (Jefe and Tiger knew about this idol btw) and I see I would have tied with RAW to be eliminated, possibly gone right then and there if I didn't have my idol or if Sam went and voted me. Everything then clicks. Tiger was doing it AGAIN. He was going against his word for whatever damn reason and what really pissed me off is he got to someone who I thought was loyal and if poop happened that I couldn't control which led to Jefe or Tiger's departure I would've been fine with Mintz making it to final and worst case scenario, it would be two of us three + Mintz, which wasn't a bad deal, I thought she was loyal to me and I think being loyal deserves acclaim.

Tiger essentially spills his guts why he did most of why he did what he did. I was a target so he could right his wrong with Jefe. He went against our alliance because apparently, having his friends back him up was too boring for him. And that after this, he wasn't really going to play these games anymore because he gets too serious in them. Hell, he even went when I reminded him of that oh so oscar-worthy performance if they gave them out for texts when he "reminded" me it was us three in the final "Oh damn, I forgot I said that, lol" or something along those lines.

Needless to say, there was an interesting discussion. When he said he wanted to make it up to Jefe which led me to being odd man out (instead of you know, keeping your initial word) and then wasn't really going to play these forum games anymore he was willing to open one door (for Jefe), close another (Me) and then throw away the key (not giving me a chance). At this point, I figured "why even care, I'm gone anyways". Even after him saying that, Jefe is gone. So he says he wants to give Jefe a chance yet votes him out soon afterward. I even tell Mintz this, because I thought she needed to know and even say to Ben and Mintz "He's done this before and won because of it on a Survivor I hosted, you really want him to do the same to you guys after coming from nowhere?". Fell on deaf ears, Tiger wins, and I receive a unanimous vote for my troubles.

I'm not one who likes being lied to. Chalk it up to having friends in school who would attempt to fit in and talk poop to me and then attempt to be buddy, buddy after everything, but I'm a big stickler for being loyal to someone and going against doubts because I like to believe the same people I try to be loyal to are loyal to me. I won't have a problem if people who I try to stay loyal to go "Hey, things aren't working out, I don't know if I can trust you, you're a target to me." Let me SEE the bus coming and if I still get hit, it's because I couldn't stay out of the path, don't pretend the bus isn't there and by the time I do get to see it, it'll take some miracle work on my end. Did Tiger wins immunities, yes, and that's about the only admirable thing there is.

What I want to know? What is admirable about giving two guys you've known for over 2 years the shaft? Why should I vote for you Tiger, when you want to sound like you deserve forgiveness when none of your actions justify it? Why didn't you just say "Hey, I want to be my own player" instead of going "OK, yeah, it's us, don't worry about it"? We're still friends, but I had to get it off my chest.

@everyone -- I tried to stay loyal and got nothing in return. This is the SECOND STRAIGHT game on this forum where I miss the finale by one placement (3rd in BB, 4th here). So yeah, admittedly, I am a bit pissed. Maybe bitter to an extent. Maybe it's not cool to place all of this out there. But considering I have to vote, I don't know where the hell to place it. Sorry bud, but I don't think you deserve to win. Sorry Mintz, I don't know if a vote to you matters in the long run. Ben, you showed you could score well, but I can't tell if you're a scorer who coasts sans a couple times or it was just first time jitters. Is my vote more important than anyone else, probably not. But I was allowed the floor, so I took advantage to that. Silva wanted an interesting Jury, so I hope I helped make it so. Can't fault giving my take on the game.

Tiger -- See TCM's post. That pretty much covered it all.

Mintz -- You know, you were Final 4 once M was eliminated. You were. When Tiger started to betray TCM and I, you were Final 3. I tried to explain to you that Tiger can't be trusted, but you neglected to listen. You haven't done really anything all game and you probably would have won or came close to winning.

Ben -- You are just a lucky guy in this game. Really, that's it. Also, your sig makes pages obnoxiously wide.

Maybe this is sour grapes, but I don't really see any person here who deserves to win.

So, my question, to all 3 of you. "Why should I even care?"

I feel for Tiger he has to read so much

Well wwfe, I feel I should win because I didn't double cross anyone, I stuck with my alliance to the end and I didn't intentionally harm anyone, if I did then I am sorry, but that was not my intention. I scored well in general and gained immunity.

Anything else be sure to ask.

Cheers!

Sorry, needed it for my curry

You can have some if you want? ;D

lol i remember get turn on by the blue team back near the very start....
I wonder how that was all planned out.

I just want to go ahead and say I have a GIANT message that I've typed out, but I still need to add and edit a lot of the stuff in it. It's addressed every question by everyone so far, but I don't have the time tonight (or at least at this moment to deal with it) I'll have answers to all your questions up tomorrow around noontime. Gotta a huge Calculus test tomorrow, so I hope y'all can understand. Sorry for the delay.

So any of you like Nintendo?

Ok, before I get into this extremely long speech, I would just like to thank Jack and Silva for letting me play this game, and TCM for letting me know it even existed. I'm sure the hosts could have found a more high caliber replacement for me if they wanted to, so I just want to thank everyone who had a part in my participating in this game. I know this is a forum game, but I have the utmost respect for this game. I've been watching Survivor since season 1, so even if this isn't the real thing, I'm so happy I got to participate. Thanks to all of you.

I'm going to start with WWFE's question first, then TCM's and the rest will follow in no particular order.

WWFE:



I think I should win this game because I played the game to it's motto. "Outwit, Outplay, Outlast"

Outplay: "To defeat in a game"

It's obvious I played these games hard. I won four immunity necklaces during the merge, and one individual necklace before the merge. In addition throughout the course of the merge I was second place in all games I didn't win, spare one. On paper, I did the best at outplaying everyone in challenges throughout this entire game.

Outwit: "To beat through cleverness and wit"

This is one of my biggest points. I think I played an astounding game of outwitting every single person in this game. I'll outline it with a timeline.

Pre-Merge:

Before the merge, I chose to play things safe for the time, being. I played well in the games competitively, and it showed since our team won the first two challenges; but I didn't play and make myself a target. I layed low, and made sure nobody would put the bullseye on my back. It was at this time I forged a four person alliance with Ben, Mintz, and M, while staying with TCM/Jefe for the time being. Once the merge began to loom, I decided to make myself a force, and went on to win the individual immunity challenge before we merged. At this point, I was setting everything up from the beginning to win the game.

Merge: Elimination of Jurors #1 through #3

Once the merge came around I already went in with the mindset I needed to make a huge move. The best players to ever play Survivor, aren't afraid to make big game moves, and that's what I decided to do. There was no move bigger than going against the duo of TCM/Eljefe. Nobody would expect it, and if it worked I would have made a giant case to win the game early on. During the first two votes I was trying to set the stage to execute this, I was in communication with Nuke, trying to keep him in this game merely so that when I blindside TCM, it would look like Nuke did it. I was able to persuade everyone to vote out Casalex because we were 99.99% sure he had the idol. As much as I wanted to keep Nuke another week, we couldn't and that threw a wrench into my plans to some extent. Once ten of us were left, I had an idea in my head to get El kay on our side. Sadly this failed because someone told TCM about my plan. Luckily I was able to outwit TCM/Jefe into making them think it was solely because I didn't trust them, and while I wanted to try to keep El Kay in the game, if I didn't vote him out. I would be the next person to go home.

Merge: Elimination of Jurors #4 through #6

At this point I needed to make sure TCM/Jefe didn't suspect anything. I continued to tell them what they wanted to hear in hopes of still pulling off this gigantic move. Ben and I became very close, and I got him to help set the stage for me to execute this move. We continued to bounce ideas off of each other during the double elimination, and we tried to recruit M to help pull off the move, knowing TCM didn't play the idol. This was when we realized M screwed up our plan, and we promptly got rid of him. At this point we tried to execute this move one more time. Making a deal with RAW to get him to the final four. We were able to snag his vote, but TCM played the idol and sent RAW home.

Merge: Elimination of Jurors #7 through #9

At this point, I knew my back was against a wall, I knew Ben's back was against the wall. I had tried to get rid of TCM three times, and each time luck wasn't on my side. Once again we tried to get rid of him, but Sammy voted himself out. At this point they knew I had gone for their throats again. I needed to protect my alliance, so I rolled off the next three immunity challenges and insured Ben, Mintz, and I in the finals. I played a helluva strategic game, and even though my huge move never fell through, I fought to get where I am right now. I outwitted these guys all the way until the final six. I basically covered myself with blood time and time again. Weather I was loyal or not being able to make those kind of moves time after time deserves some sort of credit. For that reason I think I definitely did the best job of outwitting everyone. Just think about it jurors. Did you expect me to do all of this/do this well at the start of the game?

Outlast: "To live longer than"

I outlasted many people because I both outwitted them and outplayed them. If I would have been TCM. After he got wind the first time I wanted him gone, I would have gone for my head, but he didn't because I did such a great job of playing as if I was still with them. For that reason I kept myself safe for the next three or four votes afterwards, and then took fate into my own hands winning these last three challenges.

Overall for those three arguments above, I think I deserve to win this game. I had the most difficult road of anybody, because I had to win most of the time to make sure I didn't get voted out, and I almost always got receiving votes at tribal council. I won more immunity challenges than anyone left in the game, and played the hardest game of anyone. Nobody in this game was willing to make a move as big as I did, so I made my path, stuck to it and got to where I am now. The argument against me winning, is that I wasn't loyal. No matter what way you look at it, no where does it say loyalty is one of the aspects that is required to win this game. The game is Survivor and it's about fending for yourself. Sure you might snag some help along the way, but at the end of the day, it's an individual game. I played this game hard and true to the motto. I played an astounding strategic game and a great competitive game, and for these reasons I believe I should claim the title of "Sole Survivor".

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TCM:



Before I delve into this, those specific points listed above I want to paint this picture for you again.

For starters, we came into this game having a deal. That is true. Oscar-worthy performance or not, I thought it was more implied than ever spoken or written, but I could be wrong. We've been over the fact that I did want to play my own game because I'm a fighter, not a coaster. I think my performance in the game is an example of that. As stupid as it sounds, there's a part of me that likes having the odds stacked against me, because from a competitive standpoint, a person looks a helluva a lot better when they had to claw and fight to get to where they are, as opposed to sitting in an alliance of three and coasting. Secondly there was a part of me that couldn't trust the two of you together. Chief said he would get revenge on me at some point for placing him 4th in Survivor at SMF, which isn't even relevant because he was last in the final immunity challenge. After Endurance it was made clear to me I was 3rd in our group, so I wasn't going to sit around till the end of this game, and wait for the possibility to get 4th place. I took the power into my own hands. Third, after I tried to pull this move the first time, both of you called me an idiot, and said it was gonna be my bloody head on a stake. Pause for a moment. That's one place where both of you went wrong. Social game matters, and that's one thing I didn't like. I don't want to be some tyrant ruler or anything, but you basically told me I had to vote your way every single time or it was the highway. I know I had heavy influence on the Casalex vote, which at that point was purely strategic and purely part of my plan to backdoor you, but seriously you guys never really gave me anything that sweetened the deal for me. You guys just expected me to stick with you because it was the three of us. That's one of the reasons Mintz may have stuck closer with me. It wasn't just about me, it was about me, her, and Ben. I would ask both of them, "I think this is the best move for US, but do you think differently? Do you think we should do this?" I gave them choice on how to vote, I said I'd hear them out. With the two of you it was, "Do this". I had to make one hell of an argument to get Casalex voted out and we were 99.99% sure he had the idol. I don't like to be anyone's sheep, and that's one of the reasons I made some of the decisions I did. The goal with that whole plan was to get rid of you early in the game, and place the blame on Nuke. Thats why I wanted to keep Nuke around a couple of votes so badly. That way I could have kept your jury vote, kept Jefe's trust and had him go with us until he was 5th and kept his jury vote all the same. Either way, that plan didn't work because of M, and it's the reason you weren't in the final four with us M. The only other thing I have left to say is something I already addressed to Jefe. When you tried to got rid of me in Endurance you told me it was just a game and I got over it. Here both of you are so bitter. I understand I betrayed you and that hurts, but you had a chance to beat me in the final challenge and you just flat out didn't. You probably could have voted me out too. So at this point, you made it to the final four and had a chance, so I don't see any reason for you to be too bitter. This is just a game and it's already been stated I wouldn't have made these moves if I knew it was going to become personal, because that was never my intention. This was just a game and I decided to play it. I never had the intentions of screwing up our friendship, so that is what I ask forgiveness for. You don't have to forgive me as a game player. At the end of the day, there is no manual on how to play Survivor. The only thing we have to go off is the motto, "Outwit, Outplay, Outlast". Loyalty isn't a part of that motto, and I did all three of the things in the motto better than anyone else in this game. So weather you think I deserve to win or not, I think I deserve to win the game, because of that.

Now to the three points I kept above in the quote above.

*Did I forget about this final three? Of course not, but as I already stated. If fate had it be that none of us won the final four challenge, I didn't want to be the odd man out again. Plus as I already said, I wanted to play my own game and show everyone I was a fighter.

*Voting out Jefe soon after: The reason I did that was because the initial plan was to vote you out and leave Jefe in the game. At that point I would have tried to keep him till five of us remained and then make it look like I played no part in his demise when the time came to vote him out. The situation was different and considering both of you were still here when five of us remained, we needed to take out who we thought would be easier to beat, and we decided you'd be easier to beat.

*As for your last part about admirability. I'm not asking for forgiveness. I understand I screwed y'all and I never said they're was anything admirable about it. The thing is that this is a game. I decided to look at it as a game and play it my way. The rules of Survivor never say anyone has to be loyal, they just say you need to follow the motto, and that's what I did.

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Casalex:



I believe I played the best game of everyone. Don't get me wrong, I think Mintz and Ben had their own strong suits in this game but they didn't have to play it like I did. Aside from the motto, these games are basically all about strategy and competitiveness. I was the most competitive of anyone winning five immunities and I had a smart strategy. I aligned myself with people who I knew I could get to the end with, and I made huge game moves. When there were 16 people left in this game, I told Mintz and Ben I could get them to the end and look where we are. Ben and Mintz's argument to win is that they played a loyal game. As I already stated, loyalty isn't part of the motto, and therefore isn't one of the main characteristics that a winner should have. I stuck truer to the motto than either of them, and for these reasons, I think I played a better game than the other two.

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El Kay:



I know I don't really have to answer anything from you, but I do want to tell you that a part of me really wanted to work with you. I wanted to align myself with you to help vote TCM out, and I was actually talking to everyone and telling them it would probably be in our best interest to do so. The week I planned to align with you was the week that my plan got foiled and TCM won immunity. It was then made clear you were going to be the next target and if I didn't vote for you, I would be the next one voted out.

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RAW:



Ben pretty much already said why. We were really hungry one day and wanted Curry so bad. Sorry! If we end up on an island again we'll make sure we tell you when we're making curry!

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Jefe:



You should care because you are a member of the jury. For you to not care at this point would be unfair to the first eight people that were voted out. If you had made it to this point, you probably would have expected the jury to listen and care. Weather you left the game with bitterness or at peace with how things happened you are a member of the jury, and to not care would be unfair to everyone who played the game and to our hosts.

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M:



Well I did have a fling with Peach once while Mario was out of town. And my house is powered by 67 enslaved Pikachu and Chansey. I'm good friends with Mario and Peach, and I have a pet Pikachu, and a Piplup. ;D

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With all that addressed, I'd like to thank everyone for listening to my argument. I know I've already stated I think I played the best game, but the decision is in your hands, and if you see someone else more fit than myself to win, I guess I can't really stop you. Just vote for the person you think played the best game.

With all this said, the only thing left I have to say:

No regrets, only choices, because at the end of the day, I can sit here and say, I've made my own. Coolio.